Sticky labels can screwup the playback of your DVDR's

[Craig Tucker]

I have seen quite a few posts on the forum about problems with playback of DVDR's. The symptoms are skipping and juttery playback and breakup and blockiness of the picture, particularly towards the end of the discs.

I too was having these problems, I always labelled my CD's and saw no reason why I should not label my DVD's. I have found, however I only have these problems on the discs that I have labelled.

To test this further I burned a DVDR and did not apply a lablel. The disc played with no problems at all. I then applied a label and played the disc again. The old problems were back, skipping and breakup of the video. I therefore no longer label my DVDR's.

Why this should happen I dont know, I use proper pressit labels so this should not put the discs out of balance, the only thing I can think of is the slight additional weight.

So for those of you who have had this problem and have been applying labels, try a few discs with no labels and see how you get on. I would be interested in any feedback, as to whether this has solved problems with playback you may have had.

[Dcent]

FINALLY !!!.... someone has the same problem has I !!!!
This is important!!!.. I'v burned more than 40 discs and label them all and could not understand why the movies failed in same point... this hapends with ALL media discs with several autoring programs; I realy tested EVERYTHING diferent movies, diferent players, diferent editing programs and discovered that the ONLY real problem is the labels !!

DON'T LABEL YOUR MOVIES !!!!

[Craig Tucker]

To be honest, I was surprised not to see this subject come up on the forums before. I have seen lots of people complaining about their DVD's skipping, but no mention of labels being the problem. Hopefully this will help some people out.

[SLK001]

I label all of my DVD recordings and I have not had a skip or a pixelate yet (the longest DVD that I have recorded was 4,694,939,711 bytes long). Yes, labels CAN cause a problem IF they are not properly applied. However, if you apply them correctly, they shouldn't be a problem.

I use Neato's Metalic Foil labels that have been inkjet printed and PLACED with a stomper type unit. But then, maybe I'm just lucky.

[whytless physh]

Hum. I've labeled about 20 DVDs over the past year burned with various drives and software. I've never encountered a single problem with them. I don't have an inkjet printer (color or mono) and have steadfastly used my reliable HP-LJ4 for several years. I use generic paper labels (Avery I think) and a CD Stomper application device.

I wonder if using colored ink, or any ink for that matter, is the problem here? SLK001 stated that the use of Neato's Metalic Foil labels has also not given any trouble. Those particular labels are not ink permeable. I would suggest that over time the ink will bleed through paper labels and introduce a wide spectrum of color on the opposite side of a platter. This might have the effect of causing strange refraction on the read heads of a player.

Might it be prudent to start a poll to collect some data on what printers, labels and colors are used on these troublesome discs? I would certainly like to know what is causing this aberration.

[Craig Tucker]

I use press it labels, and use the pressit applicator, so the labels are definately applied properly. And like I said, the effect of the label can be seen as soon as it is applied, not after any long period of time so as to allow the ink to seep through onto the disc.

[Smells_Like_Feet]

I am just getting into DVD burning and would like to be able to apply labels to my discs. A couple of questions regarding the problem observed by Craig and dcent:

1. Is this problem reproducable? It sound as though it is because Craig was able to verify that the label was the cause.

2. If it is reproducable how about trying the following and see if the problem can be eliminated. Try labeling the disc prior to burning (thereby the disc is burnt with the extra weight).

If you try this please post your findings.

Regards,

Smells_Like_Feet

[whytless physh]

I use press it labels, and use the pressit applicator, so the labels are definately applied properly. And like I said, the effect of the label can be seen as soon as it is applied, not after any long period of time so as to allow the ink to seep through onto the disc.

But do you use a color printer? The problem could be immediate if enough ink has bled through the label or can be seen from the back. I was not intending to imply that the ink actually infuses with the platter substrate. Having never been inside a working DVD player, I can't say for sure how much laser light makes it through the media and back but I do know that a change in frequency will cause read errors. My point is that the use of colored ink might be causing these problems by changing the frequency of the light returned to the read head. It's just a working hypothesis that would need some hard data to prove or disprove.

[Craig Tucker]

Yes I do use a colour printer, but surely the top layer of the DVDR is opaque and the laser should not be able to penetrate it. If this is the case I don't see why it would matter what colours were on the labels.

[Heywould3]

A good way to test whytless physh theory would be to lable a DVDr awith out puting anything one it.. IE dont print it first.. if it still skips etc then you know thats not the issue.. im interested in this also

[hothandiman]

I wonder if it is the APPLICATION of the label that is the problem. That is, does the preasure used when applying the label damage the DVD recording surface? I too have had problems with labels so I no longer use them.

[Craig Tucker]

A good way to test whytless physh theory would be to lable a DVDr awith out puting anything one it.. IE dont print it first.. if it still skips etc then you know thats not the issue.. im interested in this also

Good idea, don't know if I can bring myself to trash another DVDR though. Oh well in the name of science. Won't be able to do it for a while though got a major encode job on the go and I need to shut all major programs down before I burn to DVD or I get a SCSI/IDE command aborted error in nero.

[Craig Tucker]

I wonder if it is the APPLICATION of the label that is the problem. That is, does the preasure used when applying the label damage the DVD recording surface? I too have had problems with labels so I no longer use them.

I dont think this is the case, I apply very little pressure when applying labels. Just smooth the labels on from the centre to the outside.

[draganong]

Could it be the WEIGHT of the ink ? Like a graphic at the bottom of the image screwing up the balancing of the disc ? See if you print a solid pattern all across the label surface creates the same problem.
Are the lables circular ? Is the hole perfectly centered in the label ?

/draganong

[Craig Tucker]

The weight of the ink would be negligable (plus most of the labels I print have full ink coverage), and yes the lables are circular and centred properly.

[hothandiman]

What about a test of the pressure theory? When I get home I will take an existing DVD I recorded with no label and I will apply pressure to it as if I am applying a label. Yes, it may toast a DVD, but then I will know the answer!

[Dcent]

I use press it labels, and use the pressit applicator, so the labels are definately applied properly. And like I said, the effect of the label can be seen as soon as it is applied, not after any long period of time so as to allow the ink to seep through onto the disc.

Exactly !!...
I really do not know the brand of the labels but they have a bottom (side with glue) blue.
I now use a HP Photosmart 7150.
I always aplied them by hand, but with perfect simetry.

My friends, I've burned a lot of movies... all them have problems with standalone players... now I have problems NO MORE !!

The labels ARE a REAL problem... altough i think is a heating/dilatation problem... not with the ink !

I also wonder why this was not reported before... so many people burning discs...

[chemist]

I've reported on the label problem in the past and I've seen several threads address the issue. In all cases the results are mixed. Some people have problems and others don't. I have tried labels printed on a Canon i850 color printer using CD Stomper paper labels. All of them lead to bad DVD's. I see the usual problems; skipping etc, especially near the end of the recording. I applied the labels after burning the disk and they always gave me problems.

Since I stopped using labels all my disks have worked perfectly so there is no doubt in my mind that the labels were causing the problem.

I have a feeling this may be media related. Some of the higher quality name brand disks may have an extra layer which allows for the application of a label without any problems. I've been using the cheap ACCU brand DVD-R media from Meritline.

[Colindale]

I label all my disc's, and have had no problems what so ever.

Probably depends on the make or mechanism of respective players,
might be worth including label compatability in the player list.

Avoid hot enviroments, like your car!.

[Espen]

I haven't had any problems labeling my dvds so far. I'm using datawrite dvd+r and afterburner full face labels.

I think it would be a good idea if everybody posts which dvds and which labels they use and then we mabye can figure out why it works fine for some people, but not for others!

[qballcious]

It's simple...If you apply the lable off center that is to say not PERFECTLY centered on the disc, it will cause the disc to wobble and the DVD player's laser will have a tough time staying "on-track". This gets worse the further you play a disc because the disc warpage is more severe teh closer you get to the edge of the disc.

Tape a few quarters to one blade on your ceilingfan, turn it on and watch it wobble. same idea.

[Craig Tucker]

It's simple...If you apply the lable off center that is to say not PERFECTLY centered on the disc, it will cause the disc to wobble and the DVD player's laser will have a tough time staying "on-track". This gets worse the further you play a disc because the disc warpage is more severe teh closer you get to the edge of the disc.

Tape a few quarters to one blade on your ceilingfan, turn it on and watch it wobble. same idea.

I know all about dynamic balancing, I am a mechanical engineer. Like I said, this is not the case, the labels are applied perfectly centred with a special applicator.

[You_Are_Alive]

Very interesting topic. And it got me thinking about something that I experienced only once. Never happenned again. Burned my own dvd, and put a colored (should not matter though) label on it with a black plastic applicator, which ensures perfect application everytime. Got it from Circuit City and its compatible with all Neato and Fellows labels stuff. Nice system to work with, recommended.

Okay, this dvd worked everytime I showed it off to ppl, its a full written Dvd by the way. But one time after running my dvd player for about 4 hrs straight, I stuck this one back in and about half way into it, it started to pause the picture for very short amount of times, after some more time this continued and it progressively grew worse until it finally just froze the picture. When I ejected the disk, it felt a bit warmer than the other dvd but not sure cause I could not measure it with an instrument, it was just from feeling it with my hands.

So maybe it has something to do more with the internal HEAT that is created within the player. And since the label is made of matte paper that has added extra weight, it also retains more heat and does not dissipate as fast.

[Craig Tucker]

Very interesting topic. And it got me thinking about something that I experienced only once. Never happenned again. Burned my own dvd, and put a colored (should not matter though) label on it with a black plastic applicator, which ensures perfect application everytime. Got it from Circuit City and its compatible with all Neato and Fellows labels stuff. Nice system to work with, recommended.

Okay, this dvd worked everytime I showed it off to ppl, its a full written Dvd by the way. But one time after running my dvd player for about 4 hrs straight, I stuck this one back in and about half way into it, it started to pause the picture for very short amount of times, after some more time this continued and it progressively grew worse until it finally just froze the picture. When I ejected the disk, it felt a bit warmer than the other dvd but not sure cause I could not measure it with an instrument, it was just from feeling it with my hands.

So maybe it has something to do more with the internal HEAT that is created within the player. And since the label is made of matte paper that has added extra weight, it also retains more heat and does not dissipate as fast.

Good theory, you_are_alive.

But I have burned a disc with no label, plays fine.

Applied a label, inserted it in the DVD player and searched directly to 90mins (for some reason the problems are more evident further on in the disc, although I have had instances where the picture glitches right from the start). The problems are evident immediately, not after a period of time to allow the disc to get hot.

[chrisf]

I too have the same problems with DVD-R - blockies, freezing pictures towards the end of the disc. I too had labelled my DVD-R and after removal of the label (cheap labels not very sticky) the disc is fine - I guess this confirms the problem.

Don't believe it is media related as I see this on both Pioneer original media and Imation (both suppossedly "better" brands).

Have noticed that the problem starts to occur towards the end of the disc, but after it has occurred it will be evident towards the beginning if the disc is replayed. Not quantified exact details........

[pacmania_2001]

I too have had this problem using Neato labels, glossy or matte. I have never tried labeling a DVD-R though just (S)VCD's and in some cases the damage happens instantly whilst others it takes like a week or so.

I have always believed that the adhesive was the cause of the problem

[qballcious]

Since the problem gets worse the farther toward the end of the disc you get it seems that my therory may be true. Despite the disagreement of one "Mechanical Engineer".

If you use those transparent labels they are made of rubber-like plastic meaning that during application there is the possibility of the lable stretching. Then when it has a week to settle or gets warm in the DVD player the lable can contract back into it's original shape and throw the balance off. This whole light shining throught he DVD is less likely to be true because the laser reads the tracked data by reflecting off the mirror-like coating on the back of the disc, not through the lable at any time.

But follow this up with your experiences with lables. Maybe we can shed some light on the subject.

[mp3superfreak]

I posted a question about Adhesive Labels on DVDR's a few months ago. Read more here:

Adhesive Labels on DVD-R's?

Needless to say, I DO NOT use labels. I'm awaiting an affordable CD/DVD printer.

[qballcious]

Anyone ever use one of those T@2 CD burners from Yamaha? It "burns" graphics/text on remaining empty disc space. that's pretty cool. Wonder if that can/will be applied to DVD technology on new DVDburners?

[dood]

Well, I had recently posted saying that my labelled DVD-Rs worked fine. It seems that maybe time and heat have something to do with it, but they DO NOT play fine. One of my kids' movies started messing up (wouldn't even play) towards the end of the disc. I removed the label and it plays fine.

I'm off to re-burn about 25 family home movie DVDs....