Particular vid looks worse Blu-Ray to HDTV than on computer monitor

[awgie]

Incidentally, this is an example of one reason you don't work directly with VOB files.

Not my normal process, I did it here probably for the first time ever to save time rather rip the whole DVD, and also to have an example of the raw VOB.

You and others have mentioned degradation of the video going through multiple passes. I mostly use HuffYUV. I've also tried Lagarith - I thought they're lossless codecs that shouldn't be degraded by more than one processing stage - is that not the way it is?

Having a raw VOB is only useful if you have the entire DVD rip intact. As I said, and as jagabo reiterated, without the IFO files to tell the machine what to do with it, a raw VOB file is just a bunch of data that may or may not be in any particular order. Ripping a whole DVD only takes a few minutes. You - and the rest of us - have wasted a lot more time than that because you didn't do it.

HuffYUV and Lagarith may or may not be truly lossless. I've never used either one because I don't see the need for them. However, you rattled off half a dozen other programs that you use that are not lossless. You cannot get around the fact that whenever you encode a video, you will lose something. As I said, it's the nature of the beast.

I suggested using Vegas for a couple reasons.

• First, you already have it. You paid good money for it, and unlike Pinnacle, it's actually decent software.
• Second, if you import your MPG file (after you've extracted it using VOB2MPG) into Vegas, you can do all your editing and adjustments and then only process the video once. That gives you the lowest number of encoding processes (you can't get any lower than one), and so will give you the least amount of degradation.
• And assuming you save your project file (Vegas' .VF file), you can go back in and tweak things if the final video didn't turn out the way you wanted. You can also play with different encoders when you render the final video, while still always beginning with the original video, since all your edits and adjustments are stored in the .VF file. If you're uploading the video to youtube, use the presets in Vegas for that purpose. If you're going to burn it on a BD, then use those presets. You would be better off encoding it twice with different presets, starting with the original both times, rather than encoding it once and then using that file to encode it the second time.

[brassplyer]

a raw VOB file is just a bunch of data that may or may not be in any particular order.

On this kind of DVD - i.e. just a straight consumer copy of a tape - you play the orphaned VOB it plays just like the disk, assuming one determines the correct frame order which is simple enough to do, is there any difference in the actual audio/video data between the mpeg and the VOB?

[jagabo]

a raw VOB file is just a bunch of data that may or may not be in any particular order.

On this kind of DVD - i.e. just a straight consumer copy of a tape - you play the orphaned VOB it plays just like the disk, assuming one determines the correct frame order which is simple enough to do, is there any difference in the actual audio/video data between the mpeg and the VOB?

DVD recorders usually have editing features. If the video was edited on the disc there may indeed be out of order sequences within the VOB file. I don't think that would make a difference in individual frames. The VOB you uploaded was obviously interlaced and TFF. But since you have the DVD it's easy enough to use VOB2MPG to eliminate any possibility of a problem.

[brassplyer]

DVD recorders usually have editing features. If the video was edited on the disc there may indeed be out of order sequences within the VOB file. I don't think that would make a difference in individual frames. The VOB you uploaded was obviously interlaced and TFF. But since you have the DVD it's easy enough to use VOB2MPG to eliminate any possibility of a problem.

Okay just checking what my understanding has been - that as far as the actual a/v data, VOB and mpeg are identical.

[awgie]

DVD recorders usually have editing features. If the video was edited on the disc there may indeed be out of order sequences within the VOB file. I don't think that would make a difference in individual frames. The VOB you uploaded was obviously interlaced and TFF. But since you have the DVD it's easy enough to use VOB2MPG to eliminate any possibility of a problem.

Okay just checking what my understanding has been - that as far as the actual a/v data, VOB and mpeg are identical.

Yes and no. The video data within the VOB file is indeed MPEG2 data. That is why VOB2MPG can give you a compliant MPG file without needing to recode the video. BUT that word compliant is critical. A VOB file is NOT identical to an MPG file. Just because you happen to be able to play that orphaned VOB file and it looks right doesn't mean that it will be treated correctly in any given piece of editing or encoding software.

Please, for the love of God, stop arguing the point and trying to explain why you're doing things wrong. It's not helping you at all.

[brassplyer]

Please, for the love of God, stop arguing the point and trying to explain why you're doing things wrong. It's not helping you at all.

I was clarifying a technical point - you need to stop assuming I'm arguing. You get pissy too quick sport. Maybe you completely missed where I said I don't normally work directly from a VOB file, have never done it before.

[awgie]

I was clarifying a technical point - you need to stop assuming I'm arguing.

Well, forgive me for ASSuming, but since that technical point has been clarified more than once, I just figured you're not getting it.

You keep explaining why you used the VOB file, but you have yet to tell us that you've gone back and done it right.

[brassplyer]

You keep explaining why you used the VOB file, but you have yet to tell us that you've gone back and done it right.

Again, I initially grabbed that one VOB file specifically to have a raw, untouched example to show someone on a previous post so they could see - this is what I'm starting from, an exact replica of the kind of a/vi data on the DVD. Since I had the file right there, I did a couple of other things with it since the a/v data is, in fact, as was my understanding, identical to an mpeg file. You're getting all hung up on things that aren't an issue in this case. I'm sure you're right that with some DVD's one could get tripped up working from the VOB files. This is a barebones, single-layer DVD with no start button, no chapters. Put it in and the contiguous vob files play just like a VHS tape. Put an mpg/mpeg extension on it and it plays fine.

At no point have I said I refuse to use the utilities you and others have mentioned, I'm sure they work great. I'm sure I'll use them.

[awgie]

...since the a/v data is, in fact, as was my understanding, identical to an mpeg file.

NO. The a/v data is MPEG2 video along with whatever audio codec is used, but it is NOT identical to an MPG file. This is the point that I and others keep trying to make to you, and you keep ignoring us, insisting that you're right. The one comment someone made about the length of the clip not agreeing with the length reported by the VOB file SHOULD have been enough to convince you that it is NOT identical to an MPG file. The file headers are different. The muxing is different. It's NOT. THE. SAME. You can't simply change the file extension and have it magically become something it's not. How many times, by how many people, and in how many different ways, must you be told that before you finally get it through your thick skull?!

Yes, I'm getting worked up. I'm getting fed up. Why? Because you've asked for help, and yet you keep fighting the people who are offering that help. You've admitted that you still have a lot to learn, yet you seem remarkably unwilling to learn. Why wouldn't I be getting frustrated?

[brassplyer]

The a/v data is MPEG2 video

This is the only part of what you just wrote that has any relevance in this case. You apparently just blanked out on anything I said in my previous post and instead keep "correcting" me on a point I never made.

After extracting with VOB2MPG to an mpeg file the properties of the a/v data - that is those elements that create the image and sound of both are identical - bitrate, bit depth, dimensions, color, field order, audio, everything that has any bearing on what it looks like or sounds like. Frames viewed side by side would be indistinguishable - because they are. Putting both through identical processing steps will result in identical files. Frames x through y in one will process identically to frames x through y in the other.

In this case for the purpose of playing or processing a/v data any differences between the files in their totality have no impact on the end result.

[usually_quiet]

You keep explaining why you used the VOB file, but you have yet to tell us that you've gone back and done it right.

Again, I initially grabbed that one VOB file specifically to have a raw, untouched example to show someone on a previous post so they could see - this is what I'm starting from, an exact replica of the kind of a/vi data on the DVD.

...and there is definitely something wrong with the sample beyond the color. The sample doesn't play correctly. The actual run-time and the run time reported for the clip don't match. There is a skip in the time from ~8 seconds to ~42 seconds. The picture breaks up at the skip, which means there are some corrupted frames or an incomplete GOP at that point.

Was it the result of an edit performed using a DVD recorder? If so, could using VOB2MPG or something like it fix the problem? I don't know. The cause could be something else entirely.

[brassplyer]

Again, I initially grabbed that one VOB file specifically to have a raw, untouched example to show someone on a previous post so they could see - this is what I'm starting from, an exact replica of the kind of a/vi data on the DVD.

...and there is definitely something wrong with the sample beyond the color. The sample doesn't play correctly.

If you're talking about the sudden jump that doesn't match it's playing correctly - it was two chunks cut from different parts of the file using Mpg2Cut2 just to show a distance shot and a closeup. I'm sure the time display issue is related to that. What you're seeing is all there is.

[usually_quiet]

Again, I initially grabbed that one VOB file specifically to have a raw, untouched example to show someone on a previous post so they could see - this is what I'm starting from, an exact replica of the kind of a/vi data on the DVD.

...and there is definitely something wrong with the sample beyond the color. The sample doesn't play correctly.

If you're talking about the sudden jump that doesn't match it's playing correctly - it was two chunks cut from different parts of the file using Mpg2Cut2 just to show a distance shot and a closeup. I'm sure the time display issue is related to that. What you're seeing is all there is.

You were asked for an untouched sample, so you cut two pieces from different parts of a VOB file using software that joined them together incorrectly, changed the extension on the resulting file from mpg to VOB, and to make things more interesting for those looking at the sample, you never mentioned that is what you did until now. Wow!

[brassplyer]

You were asked for an untouched sample, so you cut two pieces from different parts of a VOB file using software that joined them together incorrectly, changed the extension on the resulting file from mpg to VOB, and to make things more interesting for those looking at the sample, you never mentioned that is what you did until now. Wow!

Actually I did, pretty specifically.

A 22 sec sample of the original .vob file right off the DVD as I got it - about 24 megs. Trimmed with Mpg2Cut2. It's unaltered as far as I'm aware.

I also said, in response to your previous confusion about this:

They're sections [note the plural] cut out using Mpg2Cut2 which I first heard of maybe 10 minutes before I uploaded the file. I assume the video retained original frame numbers, maybe original header info?

This file isn't an mpeg with a VOB extension, as stated it's sections of the VOB right off the DVD. It isn't altered as far as any processing - I'm not aware that Mpg2Cut2 does anything other than cut and put together the sections - the reader is made aware that it's not the entire VOB. I didn't say it was a continuous chunk - I said it was sections. If it wasn't obvious from looking at it - apparently along with missing what kind of file it is and the specifics of what was done to create it you missed that it does in fact play for 22 secs as stated - and it still confused you, pardons.

[usually_quiet]

Actually I did, pretty specifically.

Not as far as I could tell.

A 22 sec sample of the original .vob file right off the DVD as I got it - about 24 megs. Trimmed with Mpg2Cut2. It's unaltered as far as I'm aware.

1. "A sample" usually means a single piece.

2. To most people here, to "trim" means to remove something from one or both ends of the video, keeping the rest intact. You removed a portion of the video between the parts that you wanted to keep and joined the two parts that were left. Most people here would call that level of modification "editing".

Given 1. and 2. perhaps you can understand my confusion. It would be more accurate to say that you provided two samples. each taken from different parts of the VOB, joined into one file.

I also said, in response to your previous confusion about this:

They're sections [note the plural] cut out using Mpg2Cut2 which I first heard of maybe 10 minutes before I uploaded the file. I assume the video retained original frame numbers, maybe original header info?

Below is the complete post that you made containing that reply. In that context your reply made little sense to me, since I mentioned a single item, a file, in the section of my post that you quoted.

I don't know if anybody else experienced this, but the uploaded clip from the original VTS_01_2.VOB file shows a run time of about 56.9 seconds but only about 22 seconds of it played. What happened to the rest of it? According to MediaInfo, the uploaded clip from the original VTS_01_2.VOB file is 24.5 MiB and about 56.9 seconds long. The overall bitrate is 3611 Kbps. Based on the reported bitrate and a 56.9 sec run time, the reported file size looks right.

They're sections cut out using Mpg2Cut2 which I first heard of maybe 10 minutes before I uploaded the file. I assume the video retained original frame numbers, maybe original header info?

This file isn't an mpeg with a VOB extension, as stated it's sections of the VOB right off the DVD. It isn't altered as far as any processing - I'm not aware that Mpg2Cut2 does anything other than cut and put together the sections

There may be some editor that can produce a true VOB file as output, but that editor isn't Mpg2Cut2. Yes, the file produced by Mpg2Cut2 contains video and audio copied from your VOB, but Mpg2Cut2 certainly doesn't produce VOB files as output. I hadn't used Mpg2Cut2 in quite a while. So I downloaded it and opened a VOB file. I made no cuts. When I clicked the button to export it, the only choice offered by Mpg2Cut2 was an mpg container. Someone could name the output file "myfile.VOB" if they wanted, but that doesn't change the fact that Mpg2Cut2 always uses an mpg container for its output.

You are mistaken in believing that Mpg2Cut2 isn't doing any processing other than cutting and putting the sections together. It doesn't re-encode the audio or the video, but like every other editor, Mpg2Cut2 has to has to demultiplex the video and audio. Afterwards it must join the parts of the video and audio that the user wants to keep, then remultiplex them. Mpg2Cut2 remultiplexes the video and audio in an mpg container rather than a VOB container. Users aren't given another choice.

Some programs, MakeMKV is one, can remultiplex the video and audio from a set of VOBs into an MKV file without re-encoding them, although it does other kinds of processing (decryption, demultiplexing, and multiplexing). Would you still call the resulting file a VOB?

the reader is made aware that it's not the entire VOB.

That part was clear.

I didn't say it was a continuous chunk - I said it was sections.

You didn't do a good job of getting that across.

If it wasn't obvious from looking at it - apparently along with missing what kind of file it is and the specifics of what was done to create it you missed that it does in fact play for 22 secs as stated - and it still confused you, pardons.

What you did wasn't obvious to everyone else just from looking at the file. If you recall, jagabo's post mentioned the possibility of someone editing the original recording with their DVD recorder before you got it.

[awgie]

...and there is definitely something wrong with the sample beyond the color. The sample doesn't play correctly. The actual run-time and the run time reported for the clip don't match. There is a skip in the time from ~8 seconds to ~42 seconds. The picture breaks up at the skip, which means there are some corrupted frames or an incomplete GOP at that point.

Was it the result of an edit performed using a DVD recorder?

The picture breaking up at the jump is a result of the file not being cut and reassembled correctly in MPEG2Cut2. So the garbled frames are a result of the B frames not having enough data to complete the picture as it appeared in the original, so they "borrow" some of the image data from the next I frame. You need to begin a segment with an I frame. If you end the segment on a P frame, you should be alright, but you may sometimes have to experiment with which frame to end on to eliminate the problem.

The problem is not exclusive to MPEG2Cut2, either. You will have the same problem if you cut a video file using a different program such as AviDemux and don't cut it correctly. The difference is that if you use AviDemux (use version 2.5 - ver. 2.6 is a completely different animal), and save the file as an MPEG Program Stream, it will report the correct playing time - 22.4 seconds. That is because instead of merely cutting the VOB file as MPEG2Cut2 does, AviDemux copies the video and audio data into a new, compliant MPG container, complete with its own header data.

The main difference between using AviDemux and VOB2MPG to produce your MPG file is that AviDemux CAN process VOB files without the need for the IFO files, BUT if the cells are out of order in the VOB files, they will STAY out of order in AviDemux. VOB2MPG uses the IFO files to ensure the resulting MPG file is in the proper playback order.

AviDemux can also only handle at most 2 audio streams, whereas VOB2MPG can copy all of the audio streams into the new MPG file. That's not too likely to be an issue for anyone, since it's extremely rare that someone's going to want any more than 2 audio streams (such as an anime movie that has both Japanese and English audio tracks).

This file isn't an mpeg with a VOB extension, as stated it's sections of the VOB right off the DVD. It isn't altered as far as any processing - I'm not aware that Mpg2Cut2 does anything other than cut and put together the sections - the reader is made aware that it's not the entire VOB. I didn't say it was a continuous chunk - I said it was sections.

While MPEG2Cut2 can save the output file with an .MPG extension, it does not change the contents of the file. It's still the same VOB file – byte for byte – but the software has simply assigned it a different extension. And it retains the VOB header data only from the first segment, which is why it reports the playback time incorrectly. It doesn't change it into a compliant MPG file.

Incidentally, if you're only using MPEG2Cut2 to cut and join a VOB file, even if you tell the software to save it with an MPG extension, Vegas will quite likely not read the file correctly. Vegas uses the file header to determine the properties of the file, so if you have a 1GB VOB file that contains 25 minutes of video, but that only reports that it is 30 seconds long, Vegas will only import the first 30 seconds of the file. Some programs can handle VOB files, because they create their own index of the file. Others, like Vegas, do not.

There may be some editor that can produce a true VOB file as output, but that editor isn't Mpg2Cut2. Yes, the file produced by Mpg2Cut2 contains video and audio copied from your VOB, but Mpg2Cut2 certainly doesn't produce VOB files as output. I hadn't used Mpg2Cut2 in quite a while. So I downloaded it and opened a VOB file. I made no cuts. When I clicked the button to export it, the only choice offered by Mpg2Cut2 was an mpg container. Someone could name the output file "myfile.VOB" if they wanted, but that doesn't change the fact that Mpg2Cut2 always uses an mpg container for its output.

You are mistaken in believing that Mpg2Cut2 isn't doing any processing other than cutting and putting the sections together. It doesn't re-encode the audio or the video, but like every other editor, Mpg2Cut2 has to has to demultiplex the video and audio. Afterwards it must join the parts of the video and audio that the user wants to keep, then remultiplex them. Mpg2Cut2 remultiplexes the video and audio in an mpg container rather than a VOB container. Users aren't given another choice.

You are mistaken about two things. You can save it with a VOB extension, and it does not put it into an MPG container. Under the "Output" menu (not when you save the file), you have the option to choose what extension you want on the file. However, it retains the properties of whatever the first input file was. If you started with a VOB file, the output file will have the properties of the VOB file, regardless of what extension you choose. But since it has been cut, it is no longer a proper VOB file or a proper MPG file. If you start with a regular MPG file, it will retain the properties of that file, even if you choose to save it with a VOB extension. The program is very loose, so you have the potential for making a real mess of things with it, particularly if you try to join segments from both VOB and MPG files into the same output file.

[brassplyer]

Actually I did, pretty specifically.

Not as far as I could tell.

That's a given - regardless of what you missed I did at least subsequently clarify what was done.

1. "A sample" usually means a single piece.

2. To most people here, to "trim" means to remove something from one or both ends of the video, keeping the rest intact.

Unless of course it's further clarified that segments from the file were used. Which it was - specifically in response to your inquiry.

It would be more accurate to say that you provided two samples. each taken from different parts of the VOB, joined into one file.

It would be accurate - just like saying:

They're sections cut out using Mpg2Cut2

I assume it's self evident once the clarification is made that's what's in the one file.

There may be some editor that can produce a true VOB file as output, but that editor isn't Mpg2Cut2. Yes, the file produced by Mpg2Cut2 contains video and audio copied from your VOB, but Mpg2Cut2 certainly doesn't produce VOB files as output.

Sure it does, I just did it again. If you just dl'd it you must have the same version I have. I think you're pushing the wrong buttons.

When I clicked the button to export it

Not export, "Save this clip". Saves the selected portion of the file with a VOB extension. It calls it an mpeg stream which as I understand it is what is contained within a VOB file.

You are mistaken in believing that Mpg2Cut2 isn't doing any processing other than cutting and putting the sections together.

Things like this

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/309974-mpg2cut2-for-MPG-file?p=1911690&viewfull=1#post1911690

this

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/346735-How-to-split-VOB-file-without-any-quality-lo...=1#post2167046

and this

https://tinyapps.org/blog/misc/201307290700_trim_vob_file.html

Are what lead me to think that it will. That's why I used it.

You didn't do a good job of getting that across.

When I clarified it for you, instead of saying "They're sections cut out using Mpg2Cut2" I probably should have said "They're sections cut out using Mpg2Cut2".

[usually_quiet]

There may be some editor that can produce a true VOB file as output, but that editor isn't Mpg2Cut2. Yes, the file produced by Mpg2Cut2 contains video and audio copied from your VOB, but Mpg2Cut2 certainly doesn't produce VOB files as output. I hadn't used Mpg2Cut2 in quite a while. So I downloaded it and opened a VOB file. I made no cuts. When I clicked the button to export it, the only choice offered by Mpg2Cut2 was an mpg container. Someone could name the output file "myfile.VOB" if they wanted, but that doesn't change the fact that Mpg2Cut2 always uses an mpg container for its output.

You are mistaken in believing that Mpg2Cut2 isn't doing any processing other than cutting and putting the sections together. It doesn't re-encode the audio or the video, but like every other editor, Mpg2Cut2 has to has to demultiplex the video and audio. Afterwards it must join the parts of the video and audio that the user wants to keep, then remultiplex them. Mpg2Cut2 remultiplexes the video and audio in an mpg container rather than a VOB container. Users aren't given another choice.

You are mistaken about two things. You can save it with a VOB extension, and it does not put it into an MPG container. Under the "Output" menu (not when you save the file), you have the option to choose what extension you want on the file. However, it retains the properties of whatever the first input file was. If you started with a VOB file, the output file will have the properties of the VOB file, regardless of what extension you choose. But since it has been cut, it is no longer a proper VOB file or a proper MPG file. If you start with a regular MPG file, it will retain the properties of that file, even if you choose to save it with a VOB extension. The program is very loose, so you have the potential for making a real mess of things with it, particularly if you try to join segments from both VOB and MPG files into the same output file.

So, brassplayer was correct, and Mpg2Cut2 edits without demultiplexing or remultiplexing the source file. I owe him an apology for saying otherwise. ...but based on what you wrote nobody should be using it for complex edits.

[awgie]

So, brassplayer was correct, and Mpg2Cut2 edits without demultiplexing or remultiplexing the source file. I owe him an apology for saying otherwise. ...but based on what you wrote nobody should be using it for complex edits.

No, he's not exactly correct. It does something to the file – I'm just not quite certain what. Even if you don't do any edits at all, the output file ends up not being identical to the input file. If the program isn't doing anything other than cutting the file, they should have ended up identical. Based on that fact, I wouldn't use it for any edits at all.

[brassplyer]

So, brassplayer was correct, and Mpg2Cut2 edits without demultiplexing or remultiplexing the source file. I owe him an apology for saying otherwise.

Can I opt for cash instead?

[brassplyer]

So, brassplayer was correct, and Mpg2Cut2 edits without demultiplexing or remultiplexing the source file. I owe him an apology for saying otherwise. ...but based on what you wrote nobody should be using it for complex edits.

No, he's not exactly correct. It does something to the file – I'm just not quite certain what. Even if you don't do any edits at all, the output file ends up not being identical to the input file. If the program isn't doing anything other than cutting the file, they should have ended up identical. Based on that fact, I wouldn't use it for any edits at all.

According to the links I referenced above - one of which is input from manono it just joins the selected segments - no re-encoding. I don't find any parameters between the resulting file and the original VOB that are different - other than the length of course.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/309974-mpg2cut2-for-MPG-file?p=1911690&viewfull=1#post1911690

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/346735-How-to-split-VOB-file-without-any-quality-lo...=1#post2167046

https://tinyapps.org/blog/misc/201307290700_trim_vob_file.html

[usually_quiet]

When I clicked the button to export it

Not export, "Save this clip". Saves the selected portion of the file with a VOB extension. It calls it an mpeg stream which as I understand it is what is contained within a VOB file.

Yes I used "Save this clip", but after doing that I began the export process by clicking the "Save" button. The "Save as type" drop down list showed "All Files (*.*), not "MPEG Stream", but "MPEG Stream" was the next and only other item in the list. (The list determined what files were visible in the "Save 1 clip" window, not what kind of file is used for output.) The result was an .mpg file even though the source file was a VOB. "MPG" was the default extension checked in Output->Default Extension, but that was pre-selected, not something I did.

"Stream" is normally used to refer to one of the multimedia components inside a multiplexed file. MPG files and VOB files have some streams in common (MPEG video streams and various types of audio streams), but subpicture subtitle streams are only found in VOB files

[awgie]

So, brassplayer was correct, and Mpg2Cut2 edits without demultiplexing or remultiplexing the source file. I owe him an apology for saying otherwise. ...but based on what you wrote nobody should be using it for complex edits.

No, he's not exactly correct. It does something to the file – I'm just not quite certain what. Even if you don't do any edits at all, the output file ends up not being identical to the input file. If the program isn't doing anything other than cutting the file, they should have ended up identical. Based on that fact, I wouldn't use it for any edits at all.

According to the links I referenced above - one of which is input from manono it just joins the selected segments - no re-encoding. I don't find any parameters between the resulting file and the original VOB that are different - other than the length of course.

I'm not saying that it does re-encode the file. It saves the clip with the same speed as if you were simply copying one file to another location on your hard drive, so there's no time for any re-encoding. But something in the file gets altered. In the file I tested for this purpose, I opened it in MPEG2Cut2 and then saved it without making any edits of any kind. If it truly doesn't do anything to the file other than cutting and joining, that input file and output file should have been 100% identical. But they're not. And it's also not identical to any of the MPG files generated by any other program I tried, saving as a true MPG file. What it's doing, I don't know, but it is definitely doing something.

[usually_quiet]

https://tinyapps.org/blog/misc/201307290700_trim_vob_file.html

From your link:

Mpg2Cut2 (Win/open source)
1. Open VOB in Mpg2Cut2
2. Use Edit > "Mark From" and "Mark To" to select desired clip
3. File > "Save This clip"
4. Clip is saved as new MPG file with no reencoding

Hmm... It looks like saved files use the MPG extension by default.

[usually_quiet]

I'm not saying that it does re-encode the file. It saves the clip with the same speed as if you were simply copying one file to another location on your hard drive, so there's no time for any re-encoding. But something in the file gets altered. In the file I tested for this purpose, I opened it in MPEG2Cut2 and then saved it without making any edits of any kind. If it truly doesn't do anything to the file other than cutting and joining, that input file and output file should have been 100% identical. But they're not. And it's also not identical to any of the MPG files generated by any other program I tried, saving as a true MPG file. What it's doing, I don't know, but it is definitely doing something.

For what it is worth, I've used different multiplexers on the same elementary source files to produce the same type of container file as output, and found the resulting files are slightly different sizes.

[Edit]In your case, I'm not attributing the difference between the input and output to multiplexing, just saying that using a different process for creating the container file can change the size.

[brassplyer]

https://tinyapps.org/blog/misc/201307290700_trim_vob_file.html

From your link:

Mpg2Cut2 (Win/open source)
1. Open VOB in Mpg2Cut2
2. Use Edit > "Mark From" and "Mark To" to select desired clip
3. File > "Save This clip"
4. Clip is saved as new MPG file with no reencoding

Hmm... It looks like saved files use the MPG extension by default.

Yeah I saw that, don't know what that's about - whether they meant as an mpeg stream and worded it confusingly, but when I made my files it defaults to saving as a VOB. There's also an option for "Preserve VOB" that's selected by default.

[awgie]

Hmm... It looks like saved files use the MPG extension by default.

Yes, that is the default when you first install the program. You have to change it in the "Output" menu if you want it to save with a different extension. But in the case of this software, that works no different from renaming the extension in Windows after you've saved the clip. I tried saving one clip with VOB, MPG, and MP2, and compared the three output files in a hex editor, and all three files are – byte for byte – 100% identical. The only difference is the extension the software gives the output file when it saves it.

FWIW, whatever changes it makes to the file structure, it is at least consistent. I combined two VOB files ripped directly from a commercial DVD, and saved them as a single VOB file. I then opened that VOB file and saved it as a new VOB file without any edits, and those two files did end up identical. But it's reporting the playing time as 12:22, when the video is actually 45 minutes.

Yes, it is confusing that they use the term "Mpeg Stream", because an MPG file with both video and audio contains at least two streams. In the above example, I also had the option to save it as a Transport Stream or as an Elementary Stream.

[usually_quiet]

Yes, it is confusing that they use the term "Mpeg Stream", because an MPG file with both video and audio contains at least two streams. In the above example, I also had the option to save it as a Transport Stream or as an Elementary Stream.

Don't forget about "program streams". VOB files and MPG files are different types of MPEG program streams, but the VOB file format includes both additional features and restrictions.

[awgie]

Yes, it is confusing that they use the term "Mpeg Stream", because an MPG file with both video and audio contains at least two streams. In the above example, I also had the option to save it as a Transport Stream or as an Elementary Stream.

Don't forget about "program streams". VOB files and MPG files are different types of MPEG program streams, but the VOB file format includes both additional features and restrictions.

I suspect that "Program Stream" is what they really meant when they used the term "Mpeg Stream".

[hello_hello]

I haven't read through the thread thoroughly, but here's some observations based on the sample from post #23.

Avoid opening interlaced mpeg2 (or interlaced anything for that matter) with ffms2. If you can't avoid it, always limit it to a single thread. If you don't it has a tendency to shuffle the fields around ocassionally (which might explain some of the problems with "bounce"). By default, it doesn't obey pulldown flags either, which can lead to all sorts of frame rate unpleasantness for hybrid NTSC sources, so you should tell it to behave like DGIndex too.

FFMpegSource2("W:\sourcefile.VOB", threads=1, rffmode=1)

Other than that, use DGIndex instead.

You don't need IFO files to re-encode vob files, but they have to be prepared correctly using something like DVDShrink's re-author mode. If they are prepared properly, you can open the first vob file in the set with DGIndex, the rest will be appended automatically, and all will be fine. I've pretty much only ever done it that way. Not all GUI's know how to open ifo files and offer a choice of PGCs or titles to encode etc.
I'm not sure if ffms2 automatically appends sequentially numbered vob files the way DGIndex does either.

One thing that seems odd about the source to me, is when you apply SeparateFields() and then watch the video play in real time, it doesn't shimmer or bob at all. It's as though the two fields making up a each frame are the same scanlines rather than being alternating scanlines. Or maybe I'm talking crap....

Anyway... after remuxing the sample as a TS file I didn't have any problem running QTGMC on it. I experimented a little, but couldn't come up with anything better than QTGMC.
Has anyone found a better solution yet?

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MeGUI\tools\dgindex\DGDecode.dll")
DGDecode_mpeg2source("D:\VTS_01_2.d2v")
QTGMC(EzDenoise=2)
crop(30, 18, -42, -20)
Spline36Resize(640,480)

Are we all using the same version of QTGMC? I recall some bobbing fixes at one stage, although I don't know if that'd be the cause of the "bounce" problem. I'm using the flavour dated 2017-01-01 from here.

I think I may have overdone the noise removal, but it was only a test to see if QTGMC would work properly.