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  1. Member
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    Around a week ago a problem occurred while booted to Win10 on a dual boot Win10/WinXP system that has WinXP on one hard drive and Win10 on the other hard drive. It gave "Windows encountered a problem and must restart" error message. Upon restart "NTLDR is missing" message was given. By booting to Bart PE CD I learned the hard drive boot order had been switched and had to reset the boot order in order to boot Windows. The 2 hard drives are identical, exact same size and same model Seagate drives. That same problem recurred today. Is this a Win10 problem or a BIOS problem, and would switching one of the hard drives to a different model help? Since the problem occurred while booted to Win10, I suspect it's more likely a Win10 issue. Also I never had this kind of problem when I was using Win8.1. Has anybody had this problem with Win10 or know how to fix the problem?
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  2. I've seen a massive amount of startup problems with Win10. I have to go look at two this weekend that occurred after the recent update. I haven't gotten into it yet to determine what the issue is this time.
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  3. DECEASED
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    As a possible workaround, AND assuming Windows 10 is the primary /preferred operating system, my suggestion is:

    1) tell Windows 10 to ignore the XP partition /HDD when the computer is turned on;

    2) create a boot CD for the XP setup and use it whenever necessary:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Torito_%28CD-ROM_standard%29
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  4. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Sounds more like a bios problem if you have to switch the hdd around,what i did for a similar problem was reset the bios and place the bootable drive on the default startup hdd.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  5. Boot order was changed HOW, and according to WHAT?

    The Windows boot loader, or the BIOS?

    Windows does not change the boot order, in the BIOS, SFAIK. IT can and will change the boot loader config, particularly in the case of two bootable drives.

    In terms if the BIOS, is the 10 drive listed, in numerical order, before, or after, the XP drive? Primary or secondary, is the point.
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    A dual drive boot system where the error happens more that once in relation to one specific drive is an indicator the drive is due for replacement

    The issue occurs when the drive has problems understanding the current format, not a bios or os issue.
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    Originally Posted by Nelson37 View Post
    Boot order was changed HOW, and according to WHAT?

    The Windows boot loader, or the BIOS?

    Windows does not change the boot order, in the BIOS, SFAIK. IT can and will change the boot loader config, particularly in the case of two bootable drives.

    In terms if the BIOS, is the 10 drive listed, in numerical order, before, or after, the XP drive? Primary or secondary, is the point.
    Boot order is changed in BIOS. WinXP was installed on Disk 1, and Win10 was installed on Disk 0 as shown in Disk Management. That was reversed when the BIOS boot order was changed, i.e. Win10 on Disk 1 and WinXP on Disk 0 after BIOS boot order was changed. In the boot.ini file Win10 is the default OS which does not change unless I change it.
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  8. Drive numbers IN THE BIOS, NOT windows. You are incorrect about the boot.ini file.

    Also, what BJS said, is bullshit.
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  9. Member
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    Originally Posted by Nelson37 View Post
    Drive numbers IN THE BIOS, NOT windows. You are incorrect about the boot.ini file.

    Also, what BJS said, is bullshit.
    Actually drive numbers are changed in BIOS and Windows which was verified by booting to Bart PE CD which is how the problem was identified in the first place. The correct drive numbers where Windows was installed is Drive 0 for WinXP and Drive 1 for Win10, and boot to Bart PE showed that order was reversed, i.e. it showed Win10 on Drive 0 and WinXP on Drive 1. Also in the BIOS it's not possible to determine which drive is first because both drives are identical, models i.e. it shows the first drive in boot order and second drive in boot order to be the same because the drives are identical drive model.

    I am correct about the boot.ini file so far because it has never change the selected boot order unless I change it.
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  10. Member godai's Avatar
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    you can fix it with easybcd.

    that problem i guess its coming from winxp.
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  11. Lone soldier Cauptain's Avatar
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    Its a rule. If install Windows 8/10 as primary or secundary OS, unattach any other driver. The OP problem will never appear.



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    Originally Posted by godai View Post
    you can fix it with easybcd.

    that problem i guess its coming from winxp.
    Since the problem on both occasions began while booted to Win10, I doubt using anybcd or other boot loader will fix the problem. Cauptain, disconnecting other drive will eliminate the dual boot and all the apps on the other OS which is unacceptable.

    Today the system became very sluggish to unresponsive and displayed a message to restart to do repairs. Instead of going through that again I restored a backup image created before the problem began, and everything is working normally thus far. However, I fear the problem may recur, probably in 2 weeks or less judging by recent behavior. I'll post back when/if it does recur.
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  13. The way you nail down the bios order with two identical drives is to physically unplug one, boot to BIOS and note drive number. The physical numbering of the ports on the mobo is usually, but not always, accurate.

    The only case where I have seen BIOS drive numbers change, in the BIOS, without user intervention is in the case of a RAID system experiencing drive failure. I would not recommend relying on ANY software interpretation of BIOS numbering other than directly booting into the bios itself.
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  14. Lone soldier Cauptain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bevills1 View Post
    Originally Posted by godai View Post
    you can fix it with easybcd.

    that problem i guess its coming from winxp.
    Cauptain, disconnecting other drive will eliminate the dual boot and all the apps on the other OS which is unacceptable.

    Today the system became very sluggish to unresponsive and displayed a message to restart to do repairs. Instead of going through that again I restored a backup image created before the problem began, and everything is working normally thus far. However, I fear the problem may recur, probably in 2 weeks or less judging by recent behavior. I'll post back when/if it does recur.

    You dont understand my reply, sorry my mistake. For "installation W10 only" disconnecting other drive. After this connect again and make corret Dual boot with EASYBCD.



    Claudio
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  15. Member godai's Avatar
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    you can fix very very easy with easybcd like cauptain say , let plugged win 10 drive.
    i see that problem that you told, plenty of times, and always its when xp its installed. not only for more one os, other cases.

    order for install first older os, later new ones, in my case for example i have maybe 9 os, its easy to fit it thanks to easybcd.
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    The same problem recurred 11/5/16, I again restored the Win10 image, and on the very first startup in Win10 everything was extremely slow to unresponsive which lead me to conclude it isn't a software issue. Then I ran chkdsk /r that found no problems. Now bios boot order randomly changes or 1 of the hard drives is not detected in the bios. Next I connected sata cables to different ports on the motherboard which didn't help. Then I ran memtest86, and memory passed tests. Finally I tested hard drives using Seagate Seatools that resulted in Disk1 passing but Disk0 failing the long generic test. Disk1 is where WinXP is installed, and Disk0 is where Win10 is installed. This probably explains why WinXP still runs normally while Win10 does not.

    Will replacing the hard drive require Win10 reactivation, and will reactivation be permitted with a hard drive change?
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  17. bevills1, listen to godai.
    XP can wipe out certain newer Windows OS files.
    There is a registry entry one can put into XP to keep this from happening.

    XP isn't smart enough to know about newer OS.

    I can't remember the registry fix, you should be able to search engine it and find.
    I have CRS and its been awhile since I fooled with XP in multiboot.
    If I can remember where that info is, I'll reply back.
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  18. bevills1, haven't you been screwing around with multi-boots for a long time?
    I would be surprised if you weren't an expert by now.

    Anyway, I don't know if this is part of your problem but as mentioned in my former reply, this page should explain what XP can do to newer OS installs:

    http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/127417-system-restore-points-stop-xp-dual-boot-delete.html
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    Replacing the drive didn't require reactivation. However, about a day after replacing the drive and restoring Win10 image to the replacement drive, the PC clock was 68 minutes slow. I'm unsure whether that's related to the drive switch or maybe a sign the cmos batter is dying. If the battery is getting weak could that cause the hard drive test to give a false bad test result?

    Also copy and paste behavior is significantly altered. Using File Explorer to copy and paste used to show progress of the paste step on top of the File Explorer window, but now it's under that window and other windows that are open. Could a weak battery cause this behavior, or what else might cause it? Has anybody seen this behavior, have any idea of the cause or know how to fix this?
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  20. First, it is extremely unlikely that the battery had any effect other than the time issue. Set the clock to the correct time, in the BIOS, and monitor if this is maintained, with significant time powered off. Note that daylight savings time recently happened, that could explain 60 of the 68 minutes, and 8 minutes is small enough to be explained by an issue with the reference timepiece.

    The battery is about $3.00 ad very easy to replace.

    The drive failing to be recognized in BIOS is a significant and dramatic indicator of likely failure.

    If a valid image file was correctly restored, the system behavior should be identical. It is possible that an image taken from a failing drive is not entirely valid, however the far more likely explanation is some variation in the way the PC is being used by the operator. Eliminate the other open windows FIRST, and verify that the observed behavior still occurs.
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    Today the PC clock still has correct time since it was reset yesterday which leads me to believe the time diference might be somehow due to the drive swtich taht was done.

    In another forum I read another user said his Win10 system behaves in the same way and believes this must be the new default behavior. Is there a way to change that default behavior? That's a ludicrous default imo because one must either close or minimize open windows to see progress of the activity.
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  22. Unless the mobo was partially shorted during the drive change, there is absolutely, positively no effect on the time from this procedures. Done hundreds of these, no way, no how. It is necessary that the PC is powered down for a significant time in order to check the battery. A weak battery will gradually lose time and I repeat, the recent time change could well account for most of the difference.

    I believe there is a registry setting for default primary window location but it not something I have ever bothered to change.
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