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  1. Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post

    But since there is money to be made it will eventually show up, perhaps as a plug in. That is how Pinnacle systems did it over 10 years ago with HD, I paid over $100 for it to do HD Blu Ray. They were one of the first to provide HD AVCHD burning in this price class.

    I asked TEMPGenc, no reply, as to the others, I doubt they will bother to answer, and if they do it is "we are working on it"


    Eugene
    Haha, forget about it for $100. You'll need to add several zeros.
    You 3 amigos have your answer from one reply: http://www.scenarist.com/

    There may be no tsmuxer for uhd.
    What is wrong with playing from hard drive or video file?
    Clearly you and the 2 others don't understand how complex even standard blu-ray menu work is.
    Then add more complexity and likely copy protection...do yourself a favor and split from the other 2 amigos.
    Then reread Scott's replies very carefully this time....that's right, slow down real slow and read...try your best to comprehend his complex sentence structures.
    Only then it may dawn on you that your quest ain't gonna happen...captain...maybe "in the year 2525".
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    Scenarist will soon have some company. DVDLogicSoftware is releasing a new UHD BD authoring and HEVC encoding product, KryptonITe UHD BD. However, the intended market for this product is supposed to be small to medium-sized companies, not consumers, so it will undoubtedly cost a quite a bit more than $100.
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    September 1, 2016:
    DVDLogic Software in collaboration with Silicon Philosophies are pleased to invite you to become acquainted with our recently released, innovative UHD BD Authoring & HEVC encoding solutions during IBC 2016 exhibition (Booth 5.B16), Amsterdam RAI from 9-13 Sept 2016.

    Several major Hollywood and other releases have already been authored using our KryptonITe UHD BD product, replicated and available in stores and on Amazon. Feel free to email us in advance to make an appointment. We look forward to personally answering all your questions and demonstrating the features of.
    They mention replication...this won't be a consumer product.
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  4. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Note the "Silicon Philosophies"...

    SiliconPhilosophies is a new overarching conglomeration, encompassing Assimilate (Scratch), Archimedia, CinemaCraft (anyone here remember CCE!!??), Marquise (Mist, Rain, Ice, Ocean), Jargon/Indigo BD/UHDBD authoring, and more. NONE of these are geared towards anyone much beyond major producers/distributors/corporations.
    I notice that DVDLogic's own existing 3DBD authoring tool (BD Author 3D) is $1300 for older, lite version going up to $3000 for the new, full version.
    UHDBD is only going to be more expensive than that (as it's considered more "premium" a format).

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    I figured you'd know about Silicon Philosophies. Those prices are way, way past what I'd pay.
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    The Samsung 8500 will play my 4k UHD BR if the video is burned as a file on a 25 or 50 GB disc in 265 format. Looks great, a first step.
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    Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post
    The Samsung 8500 will play my 4k UHD BR if the video is burned as a file on a 25 or 50 GB disc in 265 format. Looks great, a first step.
    You don't have a 4K UHD Blu-ray. You burned a 4K media file to BD-R and the Samsung UBD-K8500 played it. That doesn't qualify a first step towards authoring and burning UHD Blu-ray. The media is wrong, and there is not a valid UHD Blu-ray file and folder structure on the disc. All you have done is demonstrate that the Samsung UBD-K8500 has a very capable built-in media player.

    As already mentioned more than once in this thread, consumer 4K/UHD video will likely be supported via media players built into UHD Blu-ray players, although the media players in some existing models have fewer features than the Samsung UBD-K8500's media player.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 11th Jan 2017 at 03:21.
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    You could have saved all that verbiage if you had read it properly. It says : as a file

    And it is a first step, at least for me, I can mail my brother a disc and he can play it, in the same exact PQ as if it where a proper UHD BR disc.
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    Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post
    You could have saved all that verbiage if you had read it properly. It says : as a file

    And it is a first step, at least for me, I can mail my brother a disc and he can play it, in the same exact PQ as if it where a proper UHD BR disc.
    I did read it properly. This thread is about consumer UHD Blu-ray authoring tools, and earlier in this thread, you claimed it should be possible author a UHD Blu-ray using something similar to TSMuxer. Now, you write "my 4k UHD BR" when describing a media file that you burned as data on a 25GB BD-R, and call it "a first step".

    Anyone with a Blu-ray burner and ImgBurn can burn a 4K H.265 media file on a BD-R. ...and since the Samsung UBD-K8500 has a built-in media player, all you have done is demonstrate that the media player is capable of playing 4K HEVC files with the same characteristics as your file. You haven't posted a MediaInfo report for your file, so there is no way to tell if your file is even fully compliant with the video and audio portion of the UHD Blu-ray spec. I'm guessing it isn't

    Your video has a UHD resolution, but the picture quality won't match commercial UHD BR quality if you put a 2-hour video on a 25GB BD-R. The bit rate is way too low.

    [Edit] It is good that there is a way to share video from a 4K camera with family members in its full resolution, but most 4K cameras, while very nice, don't produce video which meets the UHD Blu-ray spec. The Sony FDR-AX100 produces 4:2:0 1080p60 video, but it is 8-bit, not 10-bit and XAVC-S uses the BT.709 color space. UHD Blu-ray video is 10 bit, Rec 2020.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 11th Jan 2017 at 15:18.
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    Thanks for sharing. Really good stuff.

    I have no idea what usually_trolling said cuz he's on my ignore list. But it is a shame because this thread features prominently in google searches as the posters who joined this forum just to comment in this thread prove. Guys like him are one trick ponies, obsessed with VCRs, TBCs and virtualdub/Avisynth, and have their head in the sand when it comes to 4K. Just ignore them.
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    Judging by his history here, SameSelf joined mostly to stir up arguments for fun, and to insult other active members. (Cornucopia is one of the few members here who are true professionals working in the industry.)

    Funny thing is some of the people he has relied upon for help here in the past (poisondeathray and jagabo) also participate in many topics about VCRs, TBCs and virtualdub/Avisynth. I guess he doesn't need them anymore, because they are fair game for insults now.
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    Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post
    You could have saved all that verbiage if you had read it properly. It says : as a file

    And it is a first step, at least for me, I can mail my brother a disc and he can play it, in the same exact PQ as if it where a proper UHD BR disc.
    You can only be assured of proper playback IF your brother has the same model UHDBD player.
    And that is the difference between universal, authored mass-consumer formats and every-man-4-himself, wild wild west, consumer-format-of-the-week file formats.

    Scott
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    Quote:Your video has a UHD resolution, but the picture quality won't match commercial UHD BR quality if you put a 2-hour video on a 25GB BD-R. The bit rate is way too low.

    What a dumb statement!

    But correct you are, the Sony FDR AX100 I use (1" sensor !! 4K 3840x2160) and a bargain at $1770.00, is not as good as a "commercial camera" but that is all I can afford and it looks darn good and a lot of times better than commercial stuff. Camera bit rate is 100 Mb for your information, burned to disc as 4K HEVC, 60 to 100 Mb VBR and the playback from the Samsung 8500 is indeed STUNNING !!. My longest 4K video is 90 min and it fits nicely on a 50GB BR disc with room to spare. 25GB discs can handle to 60 min.
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    You can only be assured of proper playback IF your brother has the same model UHDBD player.
    And that is the difference between universal, authored mass-consumer formats and every-man-4-himself, wild wild west, consumer-format-of-the-week file formats.

    Scott
    True, especially in the long run, but there are not many UHD Blu-ray players available yet so chances are good that he has the same Samsung.

    That being said I was looking at the manual for the recently released Panasonic DMP-UB900 last night to see what its media player could do. There are references to MPEG-2 and H.264, but there is no mention of it playing H.265 media files. Next, I took a look at the manual for the Oppo UDP-203. I don't think it plays media files. Sony hasn't released any UHD Blu-ray players yet, but is supposed to have some in the spring.
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    Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post
    But correct you are, the Sony FDR AX100 I use (1" sensor !! 4K 3840x2160) and a bargain at $1770.00, is not as good as a "commercial camera" but that is all I can afford and it looks darn good and a lot of times better than commercial stuff. Camera bit rate is 100 Mb for your information, burned to disc as 4K HEVC, 60 to 100 Mb VBR and the playback from the Samsung 8500 is indeed STUNNING !!. My longest 4K video is 90 min and it fits nicely on a 50GB BR disc with room to spare. 25GB discs can handle to 60 min.
    That's nice, but putting UHD resolution HEVC video on a BD-R doesn't make it the disc a UHD Blu-ray. Using "UHD Blu-ray" to describe video means something specific. As I said in my other post UHD Blu-ray requires 10-bit and Rec. 2020, not 8-bit and Rec. 709 video, like your camera produces.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 11th Jan 2017 at 17:35.
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  16. Both Rec.2020 and Rec.709 are supported. HEVC must be 10 bit indeed, though.
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    Quote That's nice, but putting UHD resolution HEVC video on a BD-R doesn't make it the disc a UHD Blu-ray. Using "UHD Blu-ray" to describe video means something specific. As I said in my other post UHD Blu-ray requires 10-bit and Rec. 2020, not 8-bit and Rec. 709 video, like your camera produces.


    read it again : AS A FILE
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    Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
    Both Rec.2020 and Rec.709 are supported. HEVC must be 10 bit indeed, though.
    I thought Rec.709 was only supported for HD video on UHD Blu-ray, but taking a second look, you are right that its is allowed for UHD as well.
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    Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post
    Quote That's nice, but putting UHD resolution HEVC video on a BD-R doesn't make it the disc a UHD Blu-ray. Using "UHD Blu-ray" to describe video means something specific. As I said in my other post UHD Blu-ray requires 10-bit and Rec. 2020, not 8-bit and Rec. 709 video, like your camera produces.


    read it again : AS A FILE
    I know its a media file! That's the problem. This thread is about consumer UHD Blu-ray authoring software. What have you done that qualifies as a first step towards consumer UHD Blu-ray authoring? Nothing yet, since the UHD resolution media file is not UHD Blu-ray compliant. People have been able to burn UHD video files to BD-R as data for a few years. It isn't a noteworthy accomplishment at this point! Good grief!
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 11th Jan 2017 at 18:56. Reason: punctuation
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    If one googles "uhd authoring" this thread appears 3rd from the top! Well done all!!

    I'm wondering if people even care...I mean, you can upload your 4K stuff to YouTube, or better yet, use a media player. I every so often will author a BD-R, but playing files from my media server is so much easier.

    There are still no consumer solutions for this. I don't think there will ever be inexpensive ones.
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    Originally Posted by ron spencer View Post
    If one googles "uhd authoring" this thread appears 3rd from the top! Well done all!!

    I'm wondering if people even care...I mean, you can upload your 4K stuff to YouTube, or better yet, use a media player. I every so often will author a BD-R, but playing files from my media server is so much easier.

    There are still no consumer solutions for this. I don't think there will ever be inexpensive ones.
    I agree. Few ordinary consumers will be interested. There is probably more interest in consumer UHD Blu-ray authoring among people who do wedding/event videography than among consumers wanting storage for their own videos. I see the disinterest of ordinary consumers reflected in the increasing number of computers without optical drives.

    I still author DVDs. I record a couple of TV shows my sister using a DVD recorder, but edit the files to remove commercials. The shows air on SD channels, and DVDs work better for her purposes than media files.

    When I bought my first Blu-ray burner, I tried my hand at Blu-ray authoring. I was dissatisfied with the affordable consumer options that I tried, so I just kept burning media files I wanted to keep as data while I waited for the software to mature. After a while, I discovered burning media files as data worked well enough for my purposes and decided Blu-ray authoring wasn't worth the extra work.

    Good BD-R DL and BD-XL media is more expensive, harder to find and less reliable for burning than BD-R, so I will probably need to investigate other options for backing up media files in UHD resolution.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 11th Jan 2017 at 23:17.
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    Originally Posted by ron spencer View Post
    If one googles "uhd authoring" this thread appears 3rd from the top! Well done all!!
    Yes, and it is annoying every time I try to find out what the latest news or developments are.

    Originally Posted by ron spencer View Post
    I'm wondering if people even care...I mean, you can upload your 4K stuff to YouTube, or better yet, use a media player. I every so often will author a BD-R, but playing files from my media server is so much easier.

    There are still no consumer solutions for this. I don't think there will ever be inexpensive ones.
    If one recalls the early days of BD, BDAV was developed specifically for consumers to be able to burn their home HD movies to disc, not studios. As 4K consumer camcorders become more prevalent, I think it is almost a certainty that camcorder mfr's will eventually offer to home video enthusiasts a BDAV analog for UHD. In fact, it almost seems like a necessity if mfr's want to get as many camcorders into the hands of consumers as possible because it also fuels the market for 4K TVs, 4K players, and ultimately the demand for 4K content. Why do you think Sony has had 4K video on their smartphones since early 2014? I agree that streaming has killed demand for optical media, but at the end of the day, it is all about building the ecosystem and mfr's know this.

    Finally, uploading 4K content is a challenge as most US consumers have asynchronous connections. I don't know too many people hosting their own 4K Youtube channels.
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    4K, and later 8K, will be driven by content, not by what consumers make on their camcorders. I think camcorders will not exist in the near future. People will use their phones or their DSLRs; so having some authoring package will not mean anything to the demand for these things. I think the last true optical media demand was DVD-R and people making their home movies onto it. I have been doing my kids' sports teams for years....everyone wanted DVD-R's, then as HD came about few wanted and BD-R. Now as the kids are almost finishing their sporting years, parents only want HD YouTube or files.

    Personally I would like a UHD tool, but only for fun. I just don't see the point anymore.
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  24. Originally Posted by SameSelf View Post

    If one recalls the early days of BD, BDAV was developed specifically for consumers to be able to burn their home HD movies to disc, not studios.
    Nah
    well, DVD era yes, that was making sure that the other could play your video.
    As for BD, if that was the truth we could burn HDV and later AVCHD on discs as data without any $$$ authorung software and exchange our beautiful original videos, especially HDV, you could edit that and smart render, no problem, that was the King of that era then , right when they established BD specs.

    Instead they made sure and deliberately excluded 1440x1080 mpeg2 from specs (added later after death of HDV, what a move!). Players mostly played that anyway but mpeg1layerII audio could be a problem so I remember that folks replaced their HDV audios for AC3 to still keep at least original videos, but anyway, that was not authoring or strictly by specs.

    BD and UHD specs have NOTHING to do with folks. It is their format. Business, movies. No sense now to fall for that. There is plenty of forms of delivery, hardisk, thumbdrive, SDcard, internet stream, internet downoad from any storage, burn any data on optical disc, heck now direct wi-fi between devices and whatever it is going to be tomorrow.

    They want to fool you that menu is important, but it is not.
    Last edited by _Al_; 13th Jan 2017 at 19:05.
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  25. [QUOTE=_Al_;2473931]
    Originally Posted by SameSelf View Post
    BD and UHD specs have NOTHING to do with folks. It is their format. Business, movies. No sense now to fall for that. There is plenty of forms of delivery, hardisk, thumbdrive, SDcard, internet stream, internet downoad from any storage, burn any data on optical disc, heck now direct wi-fi between devices and whatever it is going to be tomorrow.

    They want to fool you that menu is important, but it is not.
    Exactly, Blu-ray authoring and blu-ray specs were never created to make it easy for the consumer.
    In fact, they went out of their way to make it as complicated as they could.

    That is one reason why this thread is ridiculous...it will be a very long time if/when there will be anything affordable for uhd authoring.

    I tried to explain...as well as others in this thread but 2 or 3 think they will wake up in a few days and they will have their (low cost? LOL) uhd authoring prog.
    They still can't seem to comprehend how complicated...and proprietary Blu-ray and if it gains any consumer access, UHD authoring will be.
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    [QUOTE=Steve(MS);2473952]
    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    Originally Posted by SameSelf View Post
    BD and UHD specs have NOTHING to do with folks. It is their format. Business, movies. No sense now to fall for that. There is plenty of forms of delivery, hardisk, thumbdrive, SDcard, internet stream, internet downoad from any storage, burn any data on optical disc, heck now direct wi-fi between devices and whatever it is going to be tomorrow.

    They want to fool you that menu is important, but it is not.
    Exactly, Blu-ray authoring and blu-ray specs were never created to make it easy for the consumer.
    In fact, they went out of their way to make it as complicated as they could.

    That is one reason why this thread is ridiculous...it will be a very long time if/when there will be anything affordable for uhd authoring.

    I tried to explain...as well as others in this thread but 2 or 3 think they will wake up in a few days and they will have their (low cost? LOL) uhd authoring prog.
    They still can't seem to comprehend how complicated...and proprietary Blu-ray and if it gains any consumer access, UHD authoring will be.
    This is true...back in the day, HD DVD was hailed as being much more user friendly and open for authoring, but it lost out!
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    [QUOTE=Steve(MS);2473952]
    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    Originally Posted by SameSelf View Post
    BD and UHD specs have NOTHING to do with folks. It is their format. Business, movies. No sense now to fall for that. There is plenty of forms of delivery, hardisk, thumbdrive, SDcard, internet stream, internet downoad from any storage, burn any data on optical disc, heck now direct wi-fi between devices and whatever it is going to be tomorrow.

    They want to fool you that menu is important, but it is not.
    Exactly, Blu-ray authoring and blu-ray specs were never created to make it easy for the consumer.
    In fact, they went out of their way to make it as complicated as they could.

    That is one reason why this thread is ridiculous...it will be a very long time if/when there will be anything affordable for uhd authoring.

    I tried to explain...as well as others in this thread but 2 or 3 think they will wake up in a few days and they will have their (low cost? LOL) uhd authoring prog.
    They still can't seem to comprehend how complicated...and proprietary Blu-ray and if it gains any consumer access, UHD authoring will be.
    Umm...I am pretty sure I didn't say that. You may want to fix your quote.
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    So for UHD BD playback on a PC, you will need AACS 2.0 support with Intel Software Guard Extensions (SGX). This means you will need:

    - BIOS with SGX (some 200-series, mostly later boards)
    - likely Intel integrated graphics with HDMI 2.0a, HDCP 2.2, and AACS2 support (unless nVidia and AMD step up to support Intel's SGX)
    - cpu with SGX (some Skylake, mostly Kaby Lake and later)
    - O/S that supports AACS2 (Win10, sorry Win7 fans)
    - UHD BD reader (Pioneer recently announced some)
    - S/W player that supports UHD BD and AACS2 (are there any as of Jan 2017???)
    - A 4K TV/display with HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2

    Almost seems DOA. Plus, who knows, maybe I am missing some stuff? But, I suppose at some point in the future all this stuff will be standard.
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