VHS Capturing noob - what do I need to own and know?

[koberulz]

I currently have one Panasonic NV-HV60, one BlackMagic Intensity Shuttle, one camcorder (Canon MV700i), one firewire cable, and one firewire port. I've been capturing with the red/white/yellow cables out to the camcorder, firewire out of the camcorder into my desktop PC, and then Windows Movie Maker to actually do the capturing.

Which is...not the recommended process. I've tried VirtualDub but never managed to get it to work, although I can't recall why.

I've found a JVC SR-S388E on eBay, but the photo of it shows a giant dent in the top, which is disconcerting. It also has no manual. On the other hand...I'm in Australia. Tapes are PAL. The vast majority of VCRs available are NTSC.

The SR-S388E is the only one on the Buying Guide that I can find on eBay (that will ship to Australia and isn't well over $2000). Is there anywhere else I should be looking? I don't mind letting go of a few hundred Australian dollars, but two grand is just not an option and that one's a Panasonic, which I hear aren't quite as good anyway.

I'm also figuring I'll need an AVT-8710, given the TBC-1000 no longer seems to be available anywhere (other than a 'for parts' one on eBay).

Would going through the BlackMagic and capturing as MJPEG be the way to go, or should I stick with the camcorder-and-firewire option? Anything I've missed?

[Brad]

MJPEG could be worse than DV, depending on the bitrate. I don't think Blackmagic lets you adjust this.

[ackboo]

For the DV part use Scenalyzer or WinDV to copy the DV files from the camcorder.

[koberulz]

How do those differ from WMM?

MJPEG could be worse than DV, depending on the bitrate. I don't think Blackmagic lets you adjust this.

I've checked a couple of captures and one was mid-70s, the other was low-100s. I've been using it to capture 1080i50 video, it comes out pretty good.

Only concern is artifacts that might prevent processing. I've been working with DVD sources taken from VHS by people with even less knowledge than I have and any time you put even the tiniest amount of sharpening in all it does is make it look even more compressed.

Anyone have any input on the VCR front?

[ackboo]

How do those differ from WMM?

They are known good software for the task. They will output raw DV-AVI whereas movie maker is processing everything, there is no longer a no transcode option in movie maker.

[A_51]

Hello my friend, I have found that the simplest way to capture VHS is not with a computer but with a stand alone DVD player/recorder. After that, if I wanted to do some simple changes i would use Cuttermaran, or for something more detailed I would use Movie Edit Pro.

Up-scaling the video is a whole different project by itself.

Good luck sir!

[Brad]

I've checked a couple of captures and one was mid-70s, the other was low-100s. I've been using it to capture 1080i50 video

I was referring to the bitrate it uses for SD video, since that's what you're wanting to capture.

[jagabo]

DV vs. raw YUV:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/376837-DV-conversion-vs-lossless-capture-comparison...-auto-load!%5D

[koberulz]

I'm lost. It's comparing two things, but there are three screenshots? And lots of acronyms I don't understand.

[jagabo]

there are three screenshots?

One set is a Hi8 tape played on a D8 camcorder and the DV output captured via firewire. Another set is the same tape played on the same camcorder but the s-video output to a DVD recorder which digitizes the image and outputs uncompressed video at the HDMI port. An HDMI capture device then captures that HDMI signal with a lossless codec. The third is the same tape and cancorder but the s-video output captured with an Edius NHX-E2 capture device and losslessly compressed.

[koberulz]

Okay, but I still don't really understand how this applies to my situation.

Do I take a gamble on the SR-S388E, or is there somewhere else I should be looking for a VCR?

[ackboo]

Okay, but I still don't really understand how this applies to my situation.

It is comparing a DV capture to a lossless capture. As usual DV is a lot easier but slightly behind in quality.

This thread might help, apparently blackmagic is not recommended.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/362914-Capturing-VHS

The easiest option is a S-VHS vcr with s-video output (or regular VHS) connected to a dv passthrough device with a built in tbc (I don't think your camcorder has one)

Some S-VHS vcr have a built in tbc you could research the threads here for feedback.

[koberulz]

The easiest option is a S-VHS or VHS vcr

So do I go with the deck I've mentioned? Or is there somewhere else I can find one?

with s-video output connected to a dv passthrough device with a built in tbc (I don't think your camcorder has one)

It doesn't have s-video in, either.

Some S-VHS vcr have a built in tbc you could research the threads here for feedback.

I've read through the VCR Buying Guide, and had a look on eBay for every PAL model listed. The SR-S388E is the only one I could find within a reasonable budget, but the photo shows a dent in the top of it. Which by itself is meaningless, but it's not a good sign in terms of the maintenance of the actual important parts of the machine.

But given there are no other hits, I don't have much choice if eBay is the only option. Which is why I'm asking if there are other places I might secure a good VCR.

I'm also a little confused on the TBC front. Everything I'd read prior said an external TBC was essential, but the thread you linked to seems to be saying otherwise.

Can I capture losslessly via the camcorder's firewire connection or not? How would what I can do through that method compare to the alternatives?

Just tried a capture in VirtualDub with my current crappy VCR, and it actually did kind of work. It reported a ton of dropped frames, though, and the audio was just a buzzing noise.

[ackboo]

and had a look on eBay for every PAL model listed

So do I go with the deck I've mentioned? Or is there somewhere else I can find one?

Depends on the price, the listed models are probably a bit worn out by now. So only spend money you can afford to lose. The very best is the new old stock ones, unsold units that stayed in warehouses until someone decided to ditch them. Ebay is king but I'd take a look at garage sales, craigslist or any such site ...
Personally I would go with a random cheap S-VHS, from a known brand, something lightly used that went on ebay to clear space in the attic. After a bit of cleaning it might just work. If it doesn't it's the price of an education. And repeat until I found one that works.

Everything I'd read prior said an external TBC was essential

It depends on the quality of your tapes and vcr I guess. Buy a vcr and test, and then consider an external tbc. The tbc is mandatory but not necessarily an external one.

Can I capture losslessly via the camcorder's firewire connection or not?

DV is not lossless, it is a good compromise. The effort/result ratio for true lossless can be overwhelming.

edit : did you take a look at digitalfaq and its forums?
http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video.htm

[Brad]

Everything I'd read prior said an external TBC was essential

It's required for the Blackmagic.

Via YouTube:
Intensity Pro (in the comments he says the VCR's TBC was not enough)
Intensity Shuttle

[koberulz]

Unfortunately. During capturing video from bad quality VHS tape the flickering was still appearing, although digital TBC option in my JVC HR-S8700 was turned on. The only working solution was to capture via Canopus ADVC-110. I achived the best results with it - no flickering at all.

But that's not a TBC, according to one of the stickies in here?

Canopus DV boxes convert video input to DV. They do not act as full-frame timebase correctors. Video with timebase errors will not be magically fixed by instead using a DV box. It's no different than suggesting an oil change will fix a flat tire.

[koberulz]

I've just come across a Philips VR 1000 and a Philips VR 1100 on eBay as well. They seem better taken care of than the JVC unit.

Any input?

[ackboo]

According to the manual of the VR1000/VR1100 the TBC/NR button will activate the TBC and NR function together. However you can disable the Noise Reduction in the menus and keep the TBC only. This will give you more options. From what I gathered here not all VCRs allow this. If that TBC is not enough or defective you can still add an external one later.

[ackboo]

Another option is a normal VHS player plus a Line-TBC and a usb capture card (ezcap.tv, hauppauge usb-live2..)
This thread is informative.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/376375-Capture-card-for-VHS-and-coaxial-%28TV%29-advice-for-VHS

[koberulz]

Where did you find the manual for the VR1000 and VR1100? I found one for the SR-S388E on DigitalFAQ, but they don't have either of the Philips manuals.

[ackboo]

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/179833/Philips-Vr1000-02x.html?page=24#manual

[koberulz]

Alright, I've picked up the VR-1000. I'll grab an AVT-8710 as well...then what?

This sort of thing seems to be the recommendation in terms of getting the footage onto the PC. Any good/bad versions I should be looking out for? The other thing I notice is that that one doesn't ship to Australia.

[Brad]

If you already have the VR1000 in-hand, you may as well try capturing with its TBC alone prior to investing further.

But [Canopus ADVC-110 isn't] a TBC, according to one of the stickies in here?

Correct. But it's less sensitive to timebase errors than the Blackmagic devices, and when it does fail to decode video input it doesn't fail as hard. I wasn't suggesting the Canopus as an alternative, myself.

According to the manual of the VR1000/VR1100 the TBC/NR button will activate the TBC and NR function together. However you can disable the Noise Reduction in the menus and keep the TBC only.

You can?

[koberulz]

When I say "picked up", I mean "ordered and paid for". It's coming from Germany, it'll be a while.

Given what I've heard about the Intensity capturing in SD, I think I'll give that one a miss. So is the VC500 the best option? Is there anywhere reliable to pick one up that'll ship here?

[ackboo]

You can?

Well that's how I understood the manual, it says that "The on/off of Digital 3-DNR (Noise Reduction) which cuts noise and enables clear picture reproduction is also linked to this function (TBC)" and later that you can turn on/off the Digital 3R. I guess I wasn't careful enough.

[Brad]

Oh. Yeah, that 3R is edge enhancement, unrelated to the "3-dimensional noise reduction". Here in North America, JVC referred to the EE as Digital R3 rather than 3R.

So is the VC500 the best option?

The Hauppauge USB-Live2 should be equivalent, if that's any easier for you to obtain in Australia.

[koberulz]

That only mentions compatibility with NTSC and capturing as MPEG?

[Brad]

It does support PAL and it can be used for lossless capture.

[koberulz]

Excellent. And yes, much easier to get here.

Anything else I need/should look at?

[jagabo]

You'll definitely need a line TBC with the Hauppauge USB-Live2.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/376934-Requesting-Feedback-on-3-Hi8-Video-Capture-Samples