Adding to my serious doubts about Windows 10

[Seeker47]

Just saw this article:

http://www.testgarage.com/tech/software/guides/caution-these-functions-get-lost-in-the...10-143561.html

First there was the tablet-centric, disastrously wrong turn on Win 8.

With every new Windows, there are application programs you can no longer run (or which can't be run the same way you could before), new requirements and roadblocks. Good examples would be UAC and elevated privilege levels -- that is, above Administrator -- necessary in order to do or to change certain things. I'm thinking it may get considerably more problematic for many key apps found in the VH Tools section, which we rely upon. 'Dumb it Down', 'Lock it Down', and 'Remove Options' seem to be design mantras at Microsoft. While that may have some merit in corporate or business environments, it is an unacceptable imposition for individual users on their own systems.

[usually_quiet]

I have a beta version of Windows 10 installed as a VM. I'm not a fan of the new Start Menu and could not install a third-party Start Menu substitute. I hope that changes.

I may install Windows 10 on the laptop I use to do various things for my mother. (She can't use a PC.) My sister uses the laptop too, so I have to get her approval.

I'm probably not installing Windows 10 on my two PCs. I use Windows Media Center for recording TV with them and I won't consider giving that up until there is a good alternative that allows recording copy-once protected content from my digital cable tuner. It remains to be seen whether or not SiliconDust's HDHomerun DVR is the software I'm hoping for.

[ezcapper]

Linux works much better for me than Windows for my video edit/capture needs. Maybe give it a try?

[shag00]

I would recommend to everyone that they not be the first to adopt windows 10 but I think the article linked by the OP is hardly the basis for that recommendation. The linked article merely trivialises windows 10 changes and is obviously directed to people who have no idea how to leverage the power of PCs. The OP goes on to mention VH Tools but this is not really mentioned in the linked article although I suspect he is correct and it is in this area that I also have concerns with windows 10. I totally agree with the "dumb it down" comments.

I think all the reviews I have read don't go into sufficient detail or depth as to what important features to "power" users have been deleted or modified.

It appears that windows 10 will be the last windows that you can buy and install on a PC and have a stand alone computing device. The smart money is telling us that after windows 10 we go to a product just called windows which may be just a client for cloud based computing. This truely would be unacceptable.

Ubuntu and other linux distributors are being presented with another golden opportunity to win the the domestic PC market, one hopes they take full advantage of it this time.

[racer-x]

Yes, I too am a big fan of Linux. I wouldn't surf the web without it.........

I still run Windows on my main editing Desktop however. I'm currently running Win 8.1 and so far have little to no complaints on it. It is not, nor will it ever be connected to the web however.

[usually_quiet]

Linux works much better for me than Windows for my video edit/capture needs. Maybe give it a try?

No. Linux is not currently a great option for CableCARD tuners. CableCARD tuners won't record copy-once channels without PVR software that is CableLabs approved. No Linux-compatible PVR software qualifies. For as long as CableCARD tuners have existed, Windows Media Center has been the only CableLabs approved PVR software. HDHomerun DVR is supposed to be CableLABS approved as well, but has not yet been released.

[shag00]

Linux works much better for me than Windows for my video edit/capture needs. Maybe give it a try?

No. Linux is not currently a great option for CableCARD tuners. CableCARD tuners won't record copy-once channels without PVR software that is CableLabs approved. No Linux-compatible PVR software qualifies. For as long as CableCARD tuners have existed, Windows Media Center has been the only CableLabs approved PVR software. HDHomerun DVR is supposed to be CableLABS approved as well, but has not yet been released.

Seems something is missing from this picture. If, as seems to be the case, people in your situation can only record these programs using WMC and windows 10 does not support WMC then a lot people will be disadvantaged. I can only suspect that microsoft has a paid alternative in mind, the OP's link quotes 160 euro for WMC so it might be quite pricey. I think this problem only affects people in the US but it is a lucrative market so hard to imagine it being ignored.

These are the sorts of things that the writer of the story in the OPs link should be bringing to people's attention and investigating what replacements are envisaged. Another example of shitty popcorn journalism.

[usually_quiet]

Linux works much better for me than Windows for my video edit/capture needs. Maybe give it a try?

No. Linux is not currently a great option for CableCARD tuners. CableCARD tuners won't record copy-once channels without PVR software that is CableLabs approved. No Linux-compatible PVR software qualifies. For as long as CableCARD tuners have existed, Windows Media Center has been the only CableLabs approved PVR software. HDHomerun DVR is supposed to be CableLABS approved as well, but has not yet been released.

Seems something is missing from this picture. If, as seems to be the case, people in your situation can only record these programs using WMC and windows 10 does not support WMC then a lot people will be disadvantaged. I can only suspect that microsoft has a paid alternative in mind, the OP's link quotes 160 euro for WMC so it might be quite pricey. I think this problem only affects people in the US but it is a lucrative market so hard to imagine it being ignored.

Only a small percentage of those with cable TV service in the US use a CableCARD tuner. Many more who rent CableCARDs use a TiVo, but the overwhelming majority use a DVR rented from their cable TV service to record TV.

WMC isn't lucrative enough for a company like Microsoft to justify the expenses associated with maintaining it, like the free program guide service. When MS researched what Windows 8 users did with WMC, it turned out most were using it to play DVDs. Microsoft has promised an app for that.

[jagabo]

WMC isn't lucrative enough for a company like Microsoft to justify the expenses associated with maintaining it, like the free program guide service.

I'm worried they'll discontinue the program guide, making WMC useless for Cablecard users.

[shag00]

So I suppose that begs the question, why not get a TIVO or a DVR? This sort of thing always happens when you use proprietary stuff, be it WMC or Windows. Windows is still necessary to painlessly achieve a number of tasks so until something really offensive is forced on people by microsoft, windows will continue to dominate.

I think a lot of people are running windows and linux together, either in 2 boxes or a dual boot single box. However, I think they are all running into the same issue being that it is just too hard to do, what in windows is, simple stuff. The linux propeller-heads still seem to not understand that intuitive, easy to use GUIs is the way to go. people don't want to lookup a reference card to find the command to get a listing of files in a folder, they want to click on the folder and have the list of files pop-up (this is an example only, I know its possible).

[jagabo]

So I suppose that begs the question, why not get a TIVO

$20/mo. Or whatever they charge now.

or a DVR

No cablecard (encrypted QAM) or guide support.

[usually_quiet]

WMC isn't lucrative enough for a company like Microsoft to justify the expenses associated with maintaining it, like the free program guide service.

I'm worried they'll discontinue the program guide, making WMC useless for Cablecard users.

Me too.

HDHomerun DVR is supposed to include guide service with the yearly subscription, but only those who were supporters in the Kick Starter campaign for it have seen a preview. Too bad I am not one of them.

I have used NextPVR too. My cable only channels are all copy-freely so far although that could easily change, as you have been quick to remind me. However NextPVR inexplicably fails to tune a channel at times, or the recording service doesn't run. WMC has been more reliable. I'm very reluctant to leave it behind without having other software with the same level of support for CableCARD tuners.

[Bjs]

it is an unacceptable imposition for individual users on their own systems

Only maybe ... you own the hardware and do with it what you like period ... that goes for Microsoft products.

As for application support I'm already processing a number of programs found here on VH to check for issues on a new test build.

So far the main gui is a return to familiarity for those that found metro a pain ... I actually like it but it was not a great idea for those whose first windows experience was windows 7 ... a lot of confusion amongst those I provide support for ... and thankfully removed I don't spend hours on the phone explaining steps previously explained more than 4 times before.

One issue during the win 8 to win 10 was the menu where applications are accessed.

I have xvid4psp installed and the majority of video applications ended up under its shortcut under all programs ... a bug

If they do move to cloud based it'll be the last windows for me ... the majority of applications now developed for use under linux is adequate to perform all my work ... thou it tends to be slow in response to technical changes ... the main draw back.

[ezcapper]

Linux works much better for me than Windows for my video edit/capture needs. Maybe give it a try?

No. Linux is not currently a great option for CableCARD tuners. CableCARD tuners won't record copy-once channels without PVR software that is CableLabs approved. No Linux-compatible PVR software qualifies. For as long as CableCARD tuners have existed, Windows Media Center has been the only CableLabs approved PVR software. HDHomerun DVR is supposed to be CableLABS approved as well, but has not yet been released.

CableCard is on it's way out. Hauppage even released an official letter regarding it. There was something passed in Congress. It will be gone in a couple years. Might as well start adjusting now.

[newpball]

Might as well start adjusting now.

Some people have a real hard time adjusting......

[jagabo]

Might as well start adjusting now.

Adjusting would mean paying $20 a month for what I get free now. Why would I do that? I'll adjust when the cablecard option stops working.

[usually_quiet]

Linux works much better for me than Windows for my video edit/capture needs. Maybe give it a try?

No. Linux is not currently a great option for CableCARD tuners. CableCARD tuners won't record copy-once channels without PVR software that is CableLabs approved. No Linux-compatible PVR software qualifies. For as long as CableCARD tuners have existed, Windows Media Center has been the only CableLabs approved PVR software. HDHomerun DVR is supposed to be CableLABS approved as well, but has not yet been released.

CableCard is on it's way out. Hauppage even released an official letter regarding it. There was something passed in Congress. It will be gone in a couple years. Might as well start adjusting now.

No, cable companies will continue to support CableCARDs for longer than a couple of years, at least until Windows 8.1 support ends. True, cable services are no longer required to buy new equipment utilizing CableCARD. However there are tens of millions of CableCARDS in use, in existing devices, especially those owned by a cableco, which are not going away any time soon. Cable company rental equipment stays in service until it is unrepairable. Many HD CableCARD-equipped boxes can decode H.264 so those can continue to be used even if a company switches to using H.264 for HD channels. Cable companies are still legally required to give customers a CableCARD on request.

[usually_quiet]

Might as well start adjusting now.

Some people have a real hard time adjusting......

Yes and you are one of them. HTPCs are going the way of the dinosaur. The demographic using them is middle-aged curmudgeonly geeks. It you want to keep up with the times, get rid of that huge HTPC you have and any NAS cluttering up the house, and get a tiny, sleek, streaming media device, like a Roku, or a FireTV, or maybe just a smart TV for even less clutter.

[usually_quiet]

So I suppose that begs the question, why not get a TIVO or a DVR?

jagabo addressed the situation with 3rd party DVRs other than TiVo, which would be DVD recorders here for the most part. The Samsung GX-SM530CF is now the only other third party box on the market that takes a CableCARD other than TiVo. I'm not sure how good it is or what kind of guide it has, if any.

Cable company DVRs have program guide service, but they are usually two-tuner devices, often with well under 1TB of storage. My CableCARD tuner from SiliconDust has 3, but there are CableCARD devices from Ceton with six tuners.

[Edit]I did more research on the Samsung GX-SM530CF. It has a free program guide delivered via the Internet, but is not a DVR as I originally thought. It only allows watching cable TV. Also Samsung has recently discontinued the GX-SM530CF, so it won't be available much longer.

[Seeker47]

This thread soon strayed pretty far from the original point, which was a question over the ability to continue using many of the key apps discussed on VH. I have an update of sorts, and may spin it off as a different thread, but before I do that a few comments.

HTPCs are going the way of the dinosaur. . . .
get rid of that huge HTPC you have and any NAS cluttering up the house, and get a tiny, sleek, streaming media device, like a Roku, or a FireTV, or maybe just a smart TV for even less clutter.

Evidently you have not seen the later gen of HTPC boxes, the size of a standard hardcover book. A sufficient need for even this has been borderline here, so I never got around to assembling an HTPC. But, if you wanted to maximize your file formats / codecs playback options, something like that would greatly exceed the next best solution I know of, the WD Live boxes. And for this, the latter goes way past any competing devices that I'm aware of. (The Rokus concentrate on being a streaming solution for online services.)

Some respondents found fault with some of the articles I had linked. However, I think they contained enough detail to raise valid questions, and to give one a general, early idea. (Later concerns are going in more of a privacy issues direction . . . .) I'll be curious to see what the Win 10 test drivers on VH have had to say since then.

Tivo was a pretty good solution for a certain market segment -- when it was actually working, which was rather spotty. In my observation, there were often serious problems with the hardware and with the Tivo system or support.

There is no Linux I've seen so far that has been close to being a turnkey or plug-in replacement for Windows, for our purposes. That is to say, one with a familiar, transparent GUI that does not present a steep learning curve, avoids numerous accessibility impediments, and has the ability to run most of our audio / video apps as a matter of course, without requiring you to be a major league techie. If or when that changes, I would be glad to jump ship.

[usually_quiet]

This thread soon strayed pretty far from the original point, which was a question over the ability to continue using many of the key apps discussed on VH. I have an update of sorts, and may spin it off as a different thread, but before I do that a few comments.

HTPCs are going the way of the dinosaur. . . .
get rid of that huge HTPC you have and any NAS cluttering up the house, and get a tiny, sleek, streaming media device, like a Roku, or a FireTV, or maybe just a smart TV for even less clutter.

Evidently you have not seen the later gen of HTPC boxes, the size of a standard hardcover book. A sufficient need for even this has been borderline here, so I never got around to assembling an HTPC. But, if you wanted to maximize your file formats / codecs playback options, something like that would greatly exceed the next best solution I know of, the WD Live boxes. And for this, the latter goes way past any competing devices that I'm aware of. (The Rokus concentrate on being a streaming solution for online services.)

Yes, I have seen Gigabyte Brix, Intel NUCs, and similar. However, I was responding to newpball, and when newpball's posted pictures of his HTPC, the photos depicted a large ATX tower. I was being sarcastic. Look at my computer details. I have an HTPC.

Maybe you remember newpball. As far as he was concerned, everything that wasn't new needed to be abandoned immediately. Since streaming media, high-speed broadband Internet, and cloud storage are things he believed that everyone should be using now, by that logic streaming media boxes and smart TVs (4K OLEDs with a curved screen, of course) should be all anyone really needs for enjoying video entertainment at home.

[jagabo]

I have a beta version of Windows 10 installed as a VM. I'm not a fan of the new Start Menu

And now they've started showing ads in the start menu:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-disable-windows-10-start-menu-ads/

And making it a little harder (for now) to switch from the default apps to the apps of your choice:
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/216588-upcoming-windows-10-patch-begs-you-not-to-...witch-browsers

When Microsoft announced that Windows 10 would be free, I didn’t realize it was making a product no one would actually want to pay for.

I did. It's all about selling you out and getting you to buy everything through the Windows Store so they can get a 35 percent cut.

[Constant Gardener]

If you're not asked to pay for it, then you're the product...

That being said, I have three computers all running Windows 10, in-place upgrades, and almost everything works fine. I had to fiddle a couple of older programs, and I am still having issues with a third, but it's not a show-stopper and I can at least use the program.

I had to google some Windows 10 settings, some of which I should have guessed, but overall it was an easier move from 8.1 to 10 than from XP to 8.1.

[sum_guy]

2 Windows 10 machines up and running since July 2015, no problems, everything I need runs just fine. Now, pretty much tweaked to the way I work. Couldn't be happier. Now, after that glowing review, I still run Tails for web surfing, well, web surfing the great unknown out on the web.

[Seeker47]

Very well, seeing as this thread has returned to the original subject, I will post my update here:

It is useful to get these reports that you've managed to get regular apps (like video editors, etc.) running under 10, but I still see dealbreakers aplenty. Chew on these for awhile:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2989896/microsoft-windows/windows-snooping-and-naggin....html#comments

http://forums.afterdawn.com/threads/video-microsoft-increases-secrecy-expands-spyware-...-and-8.758301/

http://www.polygon.com/2015/7/31/9075531/windows-10-privacy-how-to

http://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2015/08/windows-10-doesnt-offer-much-p...how-to-fix-it/

(User comments attached to these articles may also contain some worthwhile info.)

And, just this morning

http://news.yahoo.com/microsoft-move-keep-users-off-google-chrome-firefox-013008657.html

Some will again write much of this off as junk journalism, and I expect that some MS apologists will try to dismiss articles like this too. But the alarm sirens have been going off here.

[sum_guy]

You're worried about Windows 10 privacy but you're not even noticing whats going on in the background at your Yahoo news link, here's a nice list of trackers via screenshot for you. You think there is any privacy anymore? Windows 10 or not?

[jagabo]

You're worried about Windows 10 privacy but you're not even noticing whats going on in the background at your Yahoo news link, here's a nice list of trackers via screenshot for you. You think there is any privacy anymore? Windows 10 or not?


[Attachment 34134 - Click to enlarge]

I have most of those sites blocked in my hosts file. I allow very few sites to run Java script or use use cookies. I rarely see any ads while browsing the internet. I suspect my footprint is much much lighter than yours.

[sum_guy]

Unless your running tails, you're exposed, period.

[sophisticles]

Unless your running tails, you're exposed, period.

I'm going to assume that you do not understand what it means to block a site via the Windows HOSTS file or what TAILS actually is.

[sum_guy]

I am extremely well versed in the hosts file and I know exactly what tails is and how to use it, however, it sounds like you are not familiar with it, in a nutshell and for the benefit of others, it's a live linux distro, I also recommend you use a vpn. On any given web site there could be up to 40 or so domains tracking you, if you think you can block them all with a hosts file, you'll spend the rest of your life editing the hosts file.