VHS Recovery advice and recommendation request

[robertk]

I have a bunch of old VHS tapes that I want to archive to digital format. Most of them were lousy sources to start with, so I'm not expecting much. However, a couple of them are good source material (shot in my camcorder many moons ago), and I want to have them professionally recovered.

First, be aware that I have a Panasonic AG-1980 and a JVC SR-V101US, both of which, as far as I can tell, are fully functional. I also have several consumer VHS players (a Mitsubishi (not the DVHS), an Emerson, a Zenith, and a Sears), with one working perfectly (the mitsubishi), and the others working for some functions but not others (some will play but not rewind, one will not eject without manual intervention from a broken gear tooth, the other sometimes doesn't pull the tape in when ejecting). I also have two different capture devices that work fine, so I think I'm OK in the hardware department for now.

But here's the problem. I have one tape in particular that I need pro help with. It is the only copy in existence -- an original shot on my (now-defunct) camcorder in around 2001 or 2002. It has about 35 minutes of footage of me and my brother goofing around doing martial arts stuff. It is not valuable in a commercial sense, but it is very valuable to me because that brother passed away recently. He was camera shy, and there are very few photos and almost zero video of him. I really want to preserve this memory if possible. I have played it in all three of my good decks, and I have a decent copy of the first segment (about 7 minutes). However, I can't seem to get any of the decks to play the rest of it. I believe the tape is sticking or dragging, as when I fast forward or rewind all the way through it, I can hear it slow down in the middle of the tape for no apparent reason. The tape was shot in 2001 or around there, and has been exposed to high humidity since then when the shop flooded (the tape did not get wet, but it was humid in there for quite some time). I have searched the forums but am afraid to try cleaning or baking or anything like that myself, since I'm afraid I might make it worse. So for that one, I'm looking for a recommendation of a service that could recover that footage (assuming it's possible at all, and I realize it may not be).

For the rest of them, they are mostly old training tapes that were recorded on someone else's camcorders, then copies given to the students, often in the EP recording mode. These tapes have also been exposed to high humidity (but again, did not actually get wet). I have not examined them but would not be surprised to find dust or mold on them. My question on those is, would it be advisable to take one of my less-than-working VCRs that can do fast forward and rewind, and clean them with a q-tip swab thing and some alcohol, or is that likely to make things worse? The tapes are all at least 18 years old, some may be 20+ years old. Again, I am NOT looking to get nice clean video off of these. I'll be happy to have a picture that's visible without much jumping around, and audio that I can understand. I haven't actually tried playing any of them yet, I'm just trying to get my head around the project. I also realize that there will be a LOT of head cleaning in my future.

And btw, the number of tapes I have (100+) makes using a service for the bulk of them a pricey proposition. But for that one tape of my brother, I would rather entrust it to a service with far more skill than I have. Does anyone have any recommendations on a good and trustworthy service for this?

[robertk]

Nobody has any suggestions?

[hech54]

It's nothing personal.....it's just that this topic has been discussed TO DEATH and there are hundreds of lengthy discussions on this matter.
Although I do capture more than I record nowadays, I'm in the "buy a good DVD recorder cause it's only VHS-quality" camp.
I still often use my Medion (LG clone) DVD recorder's built-in hard drive to record VHS tapes....mainly because it is one of the few recorders that records to the HDD as straight MPEG2 and you can remove the HDD from the unit and hook it to your computer(with tiny, free software) and transfer the ready-to-use MPEG2 files and start editing/authoring a DVD.
Others will give you a long winded story about capturing to lossless AVI(or HuffyUV) and learning AviSynth in an attempt to improve your video footage.....something I RARELY do.

[LMotlow]

That one tape of particular value should be handled by a pro. Many "pro" shops are little more than paid amateur hacks, but a few members here are in the restoration and transfer business and know what they're doing. One shop often recommended (I used them myself a while back) is the Services Dept. at www.digitalfaq.com. Look for the "Services" link near the top of their home page. You can contact them directly.

Lots of folks have little or no value for old tapes, so their advice is usually the so-so quickie trick of recording noisy ugly horrible tape directly to DVD. Can be done, of course, but you won't get very far if you want to do any serious cleanup on lossy encoded video. For EP tapes, your AG-1980 is your only real choice -- JVC never gave much thought to EP, which you can quickly see when you play EP tapes on them. Otherwise I'd see little sense in trying work with tapes on a barely workable machine that could likely create damage. You also mentioned using Qtips to clean. Don't do that. All you need is one teensty thread hanging on a video head, and you can say bye-bye forever. The AG-1980 does require maintenance, but more than just wiping heads with a special chamois swab. Depends on how well your 1980 is working. Pro maintenance for 1980's and SRV-101/10U's aren't on every corner, but one shop often recommended is http://www.tgrantphoto.com/sales/index.php. Be warned: no pro equipment maintenance shop is a $50 weekend deal. TGrant has maintenanace specials and also sells rebuilt pro players.

As for the other 100+ tapes, hech54 makes a major point. Obviously a top player like the 1980 in good working order is essential and can save a lot of restoration hassles later, whether you go the DVD recorder route or not. The rest, as hech54 says, depends on your expectations and how much you want to invest in restoration work. More serious efforts ain't quick and ain't easy, and there's a learning curve awaitin' out there. Yeah, sometimes (note, I said sometimes) you can play tricks to get a recording off the recorder's hard drive, but that's a pain the butt. Easier to burn it to DVD or DVD-RW and just copy it to your computer for fancy editing or keep the disc as an archive. You can make editing cuts in MPEG with smart-rendering software, but anything else requires re-encoding -- and since VHS ain't pristine to begin with and usually has serious defects, re-encoding comes with a big quality cost.

You can get an idea of the "long-winded" method and other procedures from the digital video and capturing guide at http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video.htm, where some of the moderators on that site are members here. The guide is a bit old-hat in that most of the hardware isn't around any more and some of the tips and tricks were OK for CRT days. But the basic principles of capturing, cleanup, and encoding haven't changed. The guide has several sections but it's a fairly quick read and will give you a handle on deciding how far you want to go.

Check the capture and restoration forums here and at digitalfaq for more ideas. And good luck.

[robertk]

Thanks, guys. I know VHS is a lousy medium, and most of my tapes are lousier still -- and I have read a lot of material (both here and elsewhere) about restoring them. Most of that info is aimed at cleaning up or improving the sources, where my concern is more about getting them off the tapes *at all* in some watchable form. I really wasn't trying to rehash capture/cleanup how-tos, so I'm sorry I wasn't more clear.

Anyway, like I said, my biggest concern by far is that tape of my brother, and I do want to go the "pro" route with it. Thanks very much for the recommendation. That is exactly what I was concerned about -- that I use a service where the people involved actually care about the process and aren't just a "play and burn" shop.

So again, thanks for the recommendation. Much appreciated.

[hech54]

These are the LG recorders that are easy to get the MPEG2 data from.....this is the site that has the tiny software needed to access the HDD:
http://ifndef.altervista.org/index_eng.html

My recorder is a Medion MD81335.

[orsetto]

Agree with the above- send the one really priceless personal tape to the digitalfaq team: if anyone can salvage it, its those guys. I can't think of any other transfer service I'd entrust with such an important-yet-damaged tape.

For all the rest, its a tough call. It is one thing to have a collection of all-EP tapes to digitize, quite another that they have a long history of sitting in a humid shack. If they were nice clean EP tapes, the biggest hurdle would be finding VCRs that track well during EP playback. You already have one of the best such VCRs in the AG1980.

But if these tapes are humidity-logged, sticky, and perhaps moldy- I'm not sure I'd torture a nice fully-functional AG1980 with them. A perfectly-functional AG1980 is scarcer than a unicorn, it would be a shame to wreck it with a hopelessly rotted tape. Your JVC 101 is also valuable and sorta rare, so not a good idea to trash that either. The Mitsubishi is worth risking as it can be replaced at reasonable cost, but may not be great at tracking EP tapes unless it is a model made after 1998 (the final blocky-looking models with no jog dial like HS-U448, 449, 748, 749 were better EP trackers).

Re your remaining half-dead low end VCRs: it probably doesn't pay to bother with them. Excellent-condition fully-functional VCRs are available everywhere dirt cheap: buy a couple from eBay or Goodwill or Craigs List. Look for any clean Sharp-brand vcr (also available under the Admiral name)- highly recommended brand among Digitalfaq contributors. Older 2-head Emersons and Goldstars were surprisingly good in EP mode: see if you can find another that is working properly. Older low-end compact Panasonic (aka Quasar and GE) VCRs were either fantastic or terrible at EP playback: unit to unit variation was significant. Look for one, preferably a 2-head compact, dated between 1995-1999 (the date is always on the back panel label). If you come across a very old pre-1990 Panasonic, Quasar, Magnavox, Sylvania or GE that still works, these can be excellent with EP playback. See example here.

If you shop carefully, many VCRs are available for under $30 (well under if you find them locally and don't pay for shipping). Even if you kill three or four with your moldy tapes along the way, the investment isn't huge. Start with one good used Sharp VCR, but if you can't get the humid tapes to play all the way thru without stopping, accept that you may not be able to digitize them as a DIY project. Tapes saturated from storage in a humid environment are very hard (often impossible) to DIY salvage. Good luck!

[johnmeyer]

However, I can't seem to get any of the decks to play the rest of it. I believe the tape is sticking or dragging, as when I fast forward or rewind all the way through it, I can hear it slow down in the middle of the tape for no apparent reason. The tape was shot in 2001 or around there, and has been exposed to high humidity since then when the shop flooded (the tape did not get wet, but it was humid in there for quite some time).

It seems like a lot of the replies are missing the essential part of your post, which I've quoted above. Your issue is not with the technique for transferring, or of what deck to use, but with the inability of several different decks to play one section of one tape. It sounds like, from your description, this problem is caused by excessive friction in the cassette mechanism (it would be tough for the tape itself to cause a slow down, especially during FF and REW).

If your diagnosis is correct, then the solution has nothing to do with getting a different deck, and instead requires that you get a different cassette.

I would avoid trying to do anything to the tape itself, and certainly wouldn't waste my time buying yet another VHS deck. Instead, I'd transfer the tape to another cassette. That is pretty straightforward to do, and you can find tutorials that show each step. Better quality VHS cassettes are all designed to be easily opened by removing half a dozen screws. You then remove the tape from the good cassette, and put the tape from the bad cassette to the good cassette.

Here's a video on how to transfer tape to a new cassette. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54ZywRLM41A

If you don't want to do this yourself, you can find lots of places that do this sort of thing. A quick Google search turned up this place:

Tape Recovery - Hurricane & Flood Recovery Advice

Finally, if the reels themselves have warped, then you may need to actually spool the tape onto the reels in the good cassette. I'd try doing the simpler approach first (i.e., the one shown in the video tutorial) and then if that doesn't work, open up the new cassette that contains your tape and old spools, and then attach and wind your tape onto the good spools that were originally in the good cassette shell.

[orsetto]

There was more than a single question posed in the OP:

1. What is up with one specific priceless personal tape that won't play completely in any currently owned deck, half of which are broken.

2. Which of the fully functional current decks might best play this problematic tape, and if not what else can be done or where can it be sent for professional salvage.

3. Remaining collection of less-important but still humidity-damaged tapes: which of the current VCRs (fully functional or no) should be used for playback, and/or is there possibility of humid tapes causing damage to the two high-end expensive VCRs.

The responses so far addressed one or more of these points. I think most would agree the one irreplaceable personal tape should be sent to LS at digitalfaq. Opinions will differ on use of the currently-owned VCRs to handle the 100 remaining humid tapes. I personally would not risk putting them in a high-end, valuable AG1980 or JVC 101. The possible slight improvement to be gained from their TBC/DNR isn't likely to manifest with second-generation EP dubs on damaged tape and/or damaged cassettes. Leaving aside these two pricey VCRs, OP only has one completely operational VCR which may or may not be able to slog thru the humidity damage or track these particular EP recordings perfectly. SP will play passably in any VCR, EP dubs not so much: it pays to try several affordable VCRs to find the best tracker. Once a couple of compatible VCRs are found, the valuable (but redundant) Panasonic 1980 and JVC 101 can be sold off if not needed for other projects.

johnmeyer's suggestion that you reload the tapes into fresh shells and/or spools is excellent, robertk: definitely do try that on one of the least-important recordings. If that vastly improves playability, you can slowly gather enough fresh cassettes to handle the entire collection. It should be easy and cheap to find dozens of nice clean VHS tapes nobody wants anymore. Just stick to standard cassettes: don't try to recycle any old commercial Hollywood movie tapes. Those tend to be the cheapest crummiest quality Hollywood could get away with. Infuriating back when I owned a video store: we'd pay $67 wholesale for a cassette that would barely survive a half dozen rentals before needing to be transferred to a better shell from a good blank tape.

[johnmeyer]

Just stick to standard cassettes: don't try to recycle any old commercial Hollywood movie tapes. Those tend to be the cheapest crummiest quality Hollywood could get away with. Infuriating back when I owned a video store: we'd pay $67 wholesale for a cassette that would barely survive a half dozen rentals before needing to be transferred to a better shell from a good blank tape.

I agree.

If you can't find any in your own store of stuff, perhaps you can find a neighbor who, like me, purchased reasonably decent tapes, in bulk, at Costco just before the DVR arrived. I have several boxes of blank, unopened VHS tapes, which have been stored in a temperature and humidity controlled room for the past fifteen years.

[robertk]

Moving the reels to another case seems simple enough. Moving the tape to different reels seems a bit intimidating, but also not terribly difficult. I have a few brand new unopened blank VHS tapes still wrapped in cellophane from the store. Maybe one of those will be useful? I might try the reel swap on that one tape (seems very low risk, but I'm still hesitant on that one), but anything beyond that, it's going to a pro.

The Mitsubishi VCR is a HS-U446. It does not have a jog dial. The EP tapes I've tried play in it, but not too well. But then again, I think any problems are more likely to be the tapes than the player. Many of the tapes are 20+ years old. I have not yet tried the EP tapes in the Panasonic. (I figured if there was even the slightest risk of damage, better to work on the original SP camcorder footage first, and worry about the EP training tapes after.) One thing the Mitsubishi has over the others is that it will rewind and fast forward at astonishing speed. You can retension a tape *very* quickly in that thing.

I have already identified a couple of EP tapes that will play, but not well. I'll try changing cassettes and see if that that helps.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

[johnmeyer]

I can't remember if you mentioned this, but have you played around with the tracking control while transferring? EP tapes often don't auto-track in certain decks, and even SP tapes sometimes require manual tracking.

[orsetto]

Respooling the tape ribbon seems intimidating at first, but in practice isn't that difficult once you know the ropes (its just tedious). I haven't done it in years, but AFAIK cassette construction didn't change much so my tips should still apply.

First thing you want to do is get a nice clean replacement cassette, preferably a brand new blank but a used one is OK if you know it is clean and working well. BEFORE PROCEEDING: check that your replacement tape has reels with cutaways in their clear plastic top half (where the tape leader attaches to the hub). Some tapes have solid clear plastic reel tops with no cutaway: these are much more difficult to disassemble and should be avoided.

Turn "good" cassette upside down, and remove the 5 or 6 screws holding the shell together, Set screws aside. Holding the cassette together, turn it back over to window side up with the tape lip facing away from you. Use a finger of your right hand to press in the little side button that keeps the tape lip locked, flip the lip up, and take the entire top half of the cassette off.

Carefully remove the right (empty) reel and left (full) reel. Be especially wary of springs and levers: note the parts layout before removing the reels. Inevitably a spring or plastic bit pops out and needs to be put back. It is a good idea to use fingers from one hand to hold the two ratchets (between the two reels near the top lip) in place while the other hand lifts the reels and tape free from the shell.

Once free of the shell, examine the empty (right) reel and note how the tape leader is affixed to the reel hub. Nine times out of ten, it is held by a snap-in plastic clip. The best way to remove this plastic clip is by careful insertion of a flat-blade jewelers screwdriver underneath it (between the bottom white reel base and bottom of the plastic clip piece). Slowly but firmly pry the plastic clip piece up and thru the opening in the clear plastic reel top. This will free the leader from the reel. Set aside.

Disassemble one of your damaged tapes, as above. When the full reel is separated from the empty, attach its leader to the "good" empty reel of your nice replacement cassette. Insert the leader over the hub in the "new" empty reel, and hold it in place with your left forefinger. With your right hand, put the hub clip back on the reel (either thru the cutout or the reel sides). Snap the hub clip back into the reel hub by pressing hard with a finger. Some of these require more pressure than a finger: you can use a screwdriver to apply pressure in such cases (hold the clip in place by pressing on it with a finger thru the reel cutout, hold the reel vertically on the table, insert screwdriver tip between the reel halves and press down on the hub clip until its snaps in). Be careful not to slip with the screwdriver and poke your hand- ouch. I've also used a needle nose pliers to snap the clip back on, this works but you need very thin pliers that will slip between the reel halves.

You now have your "bad" full reel connected to your "good" empty reel. Put both reels into the "good" replacement shell, threading around the posts as necessary. Make sure the spring-loaded plastic reel ratchet levers are properly latched against the teeth in each reel. Turn the right reel right and the left reel left to take up any slack. While holding the front flap open, put the top of the cassette back on: when it feels aligned, let the flap close. Hold the cassette together, turn it over, and put the screws back in. Load the cassette in your VCR, and fast forward the tape all the way to the end. Eject the tape as soon as you hear it reach the end.

Open the tape cassette again, as in step one. You will now have your original tape respooled on a "good" reel, and the "bad" reel will be empty. Remove the clip from the bad reel to free the leader, and set the "good" full reel aside.

Attach the leader of your blank tape to this "bad" reel. Put the reels back in the "good" cassette, and screw it back together. Load in VCR, and again fast forward, ejecting the tape when it reaches the end. Unscrew and disassemble the cassette once again. Remove the reels.

You now have the (unneeded) blank tape spooled onto the "bad" reel, and the "good" reel empty. Unclip the tape leader from the empty good spool. Set aside the full "bad" reel, along with the "bad" empty reel and the rest of the "bad" cassette.

Attach the leader from the "good" full reel to the "good" empty reel. Note the full reel should be to your right and the leader pulled left onto the empty reel. Put the reels back into the "good" shell, reassemble as above, and screw it back together. Load in your VCR and rewind to beginning. You will now have the tape ribbon from your original damaged cassette in a completely fresh set of reels housed in a new shell. This should eliminate any mechanical problems that may have been caused by the old shell or reels being warped or corroded. If the tape seems to be working as good or better than before, keep it in the new shell and trash the old one. Repeat as necessary for each tape in your collection you suspect might have mechanical problems.

While re-spooling into new reels/shell solves many problems, it won't cure issues caused by the tape ribbon itself. If the tape ribbon is sticky from humidity damage, or oxide is flaking off with age, or the base film is warped, professional salvage will likely be necessary (if even possible- depends how degraded the tape coating is).

[johnmeyer]

Great post, orsetto! Thank you very much. -John

[robertk]

I can't remember if you mentioned this, but have you played around with the tracking control while transferring? EP tapes often don't auto-track in certain decks, and even SP tapes sometimes require manual tracking.

I did, but it actually just seemed to make it worse.

I've been doing the SP tapes on the JVC, and it's doing a fine job with vast majority of them. So I don't think there's any issue with the player. I'm going to go ahead and finish up the SP tapes while it's going good, then try again on the EP ones.

I haven't had the nerve to try taking one apart yet and transferring reels or tapes. But I have a couple of candidates in mind (ones that I wouldn't lose much sleep if I ruined...).

[robertk]

Respooling the tape ribbon seems intimidating at first, but in practice isn't that difficult once you know the ropes (its just tedious). ...

I'm going to print that out and have it next to me when I try it. Very detailed! Thanks!

[lordsmurf]

Re-spooling a tape is rarely all that useful. It's over-suggested.
With VHS tapes, it's rarely one issue causing issues. Several are usually at play.

[johnmeyer]

I've been doing the SP tapes on the JVC, and it's doing a fine job with vast majority of them. So I don't think there's any issue with the player. I'm going to go ahead and finish up the SP tapes while it's going good, then try again on the EP ones.

As I said in my earlier post, transferring to another cassette is something you should only do as a last resort. My understanding from your earlier post is that the tape couldn't even be rewound or fast-forwarded. If this is the case, then the problem has nothing to do with being recorded in EP (6-hour) mode.

However, if my understanding is incorrect, and these tapes can be rewound and fast-forwarded, then you need to concentrate on the things which help play EP tapes. I already mentioned tracking control, and you said that didn't help. It will, however, be worth trying again when you get back to these tapes. I often find that difficult EP tapes cannot be perfectly stabilized across the entire tape, even when using manual tracking.

However ...

I have also found that if I capture EP the tape and some of the tape breaks up or is unstable, if I then go back and manually adjust the tracking and re-capture the tape, the second capture has alignment problems at different points in the capture. I can then line up both captures on the timeline in my NLE (Vegas), and cut between the two captures, thereby getting a pretty decent result.

Another thing to look for are the settings in your VCR's setup menu. One of my VCRs, a JVC unit, has a menu item called "Video Stabilizer." You normally want to keep this turned off, because it can actually introduce instability. However, it does have a purpose, and can reduce some types of video instability during playback. It is worth trying.

[robertk]

The video stabilization on the JVC is turned on, and if I leave the on screen display turned on during play, it definitely comes on and does its thing. I haven't tried turning it off yet, but will try that. It seems counterintuitive, but definitely will try it. And the idea about multiple captures splicing together is a good one too. I hadn't thought about that for the video itself, though I had done that for one segment by taking audio from one capture and video from another, and that worked good.

The tape of my brother (the most important tape) can be rewound and fast-forwarded, however, it drags or something and audibly slows down for several seconds in the middle of it. I don't know if whatever causes that is also causing the playback issues, but it seems reasonable. I have not encountered any other tapes that do that.

If moving the reels to another cassette would help with that, I'm confident I could do that now. I had a different tape that the leader broke when I rewound it, so I took it apart and fixed it, using orsetto's instructions. In the process I had the reels in and out of the cassette a couple of time, and it was actually pretty simple. So I don't doubt I could do that even with my most important tape. I may try that before sending it off to a pro. (I sent an inquiry about having the digitalfaq guys do it, but I think it must have got lost in the ether or something because I got no response. I will try again.)