Which video cam to get my girlfriend for her birthday ?

[MacPCConsultants]

Hi everyone. My girlfriend is a fantastic woman, and she loves taking videos and editing them and publishing them, usually as gifts. She has been borrowing her friend's video cam as she doesn't own one of her own. She wants a pure video cam, not one which will also take stills. Went to an electronics store and saw an UltraHD Sony cam for $1800. Yikes.

Any of you have solid recommendations for a video cam. Her birthday is coming and it would make sweet birthday gift.

I trust you people more than a camera salesman.

[Cornucopia]

Budget?

Logistically/pragmaticly, how would she be using it? What style of shooting? Subjects? Length of clips? Artistic proclivities?

BTW, most ALL vid cams also take stills now (as well as vice-versa), but there is still a difference in feature priorities.

Scott

[MacPCConsultants]

Budget?

Logistically/pragmaticly, how would she be using it? What style of shooting? Subjects? Length of clips? Artistic proclivities?

BTW, most ALL vid cams also take stills now (as well as vice-versa), but there is still a difference in feature priorities.

Scott

Thanks, Scott. Good point. Mostly music and singing concerts, especially in church.

[MacPCConsultants]

Budget?

Logistically/pragmaticly, how would she be using it? What style of shooting? Subjects? Length of clips? Artistic proclivities?

BTW, most ALL vid cams also take stills now (as well as vice-versa), but there is still a difference in feature priorities.

Scott

Ooops. I misunderstood her. She was a camera which takes excellent stills and movies. Her girlfriend suggested this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892349-REG/Canon_8035b002_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html

OR

http://www.costco.com/Canon-EOS-Rebel-T5i-DSLR-Camera-2-Lens-Bundle.product.100129586....=10301&refine=

Thoughts ?

[pandy]

Maybe? https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera

[newpball]

Maybe? https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera

Only if she does not mind manual focus.

[pandy]

Maybe? https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera

Only if she does not mind manual focus.

Well... nobody is perfect... probably it may be not suitable for casual use but still superior to SLR i believe (i'm video biased)...

[newpball]

Maybe? https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera

Only if she does not mind manual focus.

Well... nobody is perfect... probably it may be not suitable for casual use but still superior to SLR i believe (i'm video biased)...

Indeed.

By the way there is a good second hand market on those pocket things.

A lot of people tend to buy this in their enthusiasm, they think they have some 70's o-matic thing and then find out if is really not for them.

New I would not recommend buying them, while innovative some time ago they are now way past their prime.

If only someone came up with the 'luminous' idea of making a good QHD camera as good 4K is still very expensive.

[Cornucopia]

@newpball, please don't try and hijack a thread again.
1st, "QHD" that you seem to be so keen about lately, is NOT a standard video/cinema/photo format and is not going to BE a standard (video/cinema/still) format. Stop talking about it like it will - talking won't make it so. The only thing that QHD is is a resolution standard for monitors. Unless you intend to create custom profiles, any video/photo that gets created with normal software is going to put out something that is either smaller resolution (e.g. SD, HD, and is upscaled) or larger resolution (e.g. 4k/UHD, 8k, and is downscaled).

2nd, you are mistaken about the BMDPCC, there are some lenses that do have auto-focus that work with them (but they aren't cheap).

3rd, I don't know what you are even trying to prove WRT "those pocket things", as your verbage is so roundabout that it doesn't make any sense!

*********************

As far as the BMDPCC, the OP has already stated "YIKES" to a camera costing $1800USD. While the BODY of the BMDPCC is ~$995, to make the camera even at all usable, one has to buy a set of good lenses. Then add to that all the usual accessories that are necessary if you want the cam to be at all versatile: tripod (or other stabilizer methods), monitor/hood, external recorder (e.g. ninja, etc - if you intend to shoot longer than just a few minutes) & storage devices, lanc remote controller, audio shotgun mike (or better, separate audio system, since the audio feature of the cam basically sux), rig for holding all the accessories...
It is easy for the real cost of this to actually be $1500-$2300, and that's still on the low end!

One can do a similar thing with DSLRs for equivalent or somewhat less buy-in. Main difference is the shutter-type, presence of AA/LP filter, runningtime limitations, and (usually) lack of RAW/DI storage options. There would be the same need for lenses & accessories there as well. As an example, I bought my Nikon D3200 last year; with basic package it would have been ~$450, but adding all the extras (2 zoom lenses + 1 prime, filters, extra batteries, SDHC storage, remotes, hood, etc.) it was more like ~$1000. Even then, and with separate external mic mixing, it has only so-so audio, so I almost ALWAYS shoot double system.

What I would recommend is that the OP get something that is more consumer-video oriented, but which also has VERY GOOD audio. Unfortunately, that leaves out a LOT of cameras which now record AC-3 (with AVCHD), or MP2 (with HDV), even some XAVCS models. It does look like something like the Sony alpha5100, or similar, allows for choice in the recording formats (both video & audio), and has a similar price point to what I discussed about the DSLRs.
If it weren't recording only AC-3, I'd suggest something like a high-end Canon Vixia (~$1300 for top of the line G30 now).

Of course, if you/your girlfriend doesn't mind working with separate (aka "double system") audio, you could ignore the warnings, get a mid/lower end AVCHD consumer cam (say Vixia HF R500 for ~$300) and then get a tascam or zoom audio recorder (also ~$300). The difficulty there lies in maintaining sync throughout editing.

It's all about priorities. Which is why I asked those questions in the first place.

Scott

[lordsmurf]

Girlfriend
Birthday
Video camera

I sense a dirty joke coming.

[2Bdecided]

Ooops. I misunderstood her. She was a camera which takes excellent stills and movies. Her girlfriend suggested this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892349-REG/Canon_8035b002_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html

OR

http://www.costco.com/Canon-EOS-Rebel-T5i-DSLR-Camera-2-Lens-Bundle.product.100129586....=10301&refine=

Yes, they're very good / good still cameras with useful video recording.

Neither would disappoint, though you'd need to learn how to use them properly. They have full auto modes, but you get even better results if you learn a bit about using some of the manual features.


You would usually benefit from plugging in an external microphone and putting it closer to the singing. Or you can use a completely separate audio recorder, and sync the audio to the video when editing. That's what I do, but some people find this difficult.


Typically you can't run around following fast action with a DSLR, whereas you can with a camcorder.

Typically you can get that nice filmic "background out of focus, subject in focus" look more easily with a DSLR than a camcorder.


Some video samples at the end of this page:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-700d-rebel-t5i/23

Cheers,
David.

[newpball]

3rd, I don't know what you are even trying to prove WRT "those pocket things", as your verbage is so roundabout that it doesn't make any sense!

Some people have the impression this is some automatic pocket camera while the truth is quite the opposite, it's pretty much fully hands on.

But this pocket thing is out, this is the new one and obviously 4K:



Available in July!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1137295&gclid=CjwKEAjw3sKpBRDJ7...=REG&A=details

[Cornucopia]

Wake up @newpball (or READ)! That is smaller than the ursa, but it is by no means a "pocket" camera, nor is it marketed as such.

It has no lenses, and more importantly: no recorder! Its output is via SDI (or possibly HDMI), so if you wanted to "record 4k", you would have to buy expensive lenses (~$1000 and up) and you would have to get something like an atomos shogun (~$2000), so your intended $1295 cost is now really $4295, and that is without accessories such as power, storage media, audio, remote control. And mounting - since at that point, it is no longer some little "handheld".

Not even being close to helpful for this thread or this OP's needs.

Scott

[newpball]

It has no lenses, and more importantly: no recorder!

Modular is good!
In the seventies people died by that concept!
Glad it is back!

[Cornucopia]

Get back on your meds, please.

[newpball]

... since at that point, it is no longer some little "handheld".

None of the BM cameras are handheld cameras.

In fact there are no handheld video cameras it is impossible to make good videos handheld.

Here is a new one, affordable, 4k and pretty pocket:

[Cornucopia]

In fact there are no handheld video cameras it is impossible to make good videos handheld...

Do you know how ridiculous you sound?!


The ability to shoot good handheld has been going on since at least the '40s (in WWII), and both videos and films using primarily handhelds have won many many awards. Plenty of people can and do shoot engaging footage while & with handhelds - both providing shakey and non-shakey style scenes. Maybe the truth behind the farcical hyperbole is that it is YOU that can't make good videos handheld. Luckily, there are plenty of tutorials on the 'Net for you to learn from.

Scott

[newpball]

In fact there are no handheld video cameras it is impossible to make good videos handheld...

Do you know how ridiculous you sound?!

Well I am sorry to disappoint you but I think I do not sound ridiculous.
This is video 101, you do not shoot handheld.

The ability to shoot good handheld has been going on since at least the '40s (in WWII), and both videos and films using primarily handhelds have won many many awards. Plenty of people can and do shoot engaging footage while & with handhelds - both providing shakey and non-shakey style scenes. Maybe the truth behind the farcical hyperbole is that it is YOU that can't make good videos handheld. Luckily, there are plenty of tutorials on the 'Net for you to learn from.

I freely admit I cannot shoot handheld.

I think no-one can really.

Sure you might cut some rare 3 second 'scary shot' in your video but for good videos you use a tripod. For mobility you can use a shoulder rig or a steady cam, a dolly or a jib and if the camera is light you even may get away with a monopod but you don't shoot handheld.

I would never, ever, hire a camera operator who thinks that he can shoot handheld!

[Cornucopia]

No one?

A few links to refute this assumption:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand-held_camera
http://www.tasteofcinema.com/2014/15-important-films-shot-with-a-hand-held-camera%E2%80%8F/
http://www.imdb.com/list/ls004490764/
http://filmracket.com/10-best-uses-shaky-cam-technique-films/
http://nofilmschool.com/2013/12/masterclass-in-handheld-camera-operating-from-place-be...p-sean-bobbitt
http://www.videomaker.com/article/15956-6-reasons-to-go-hand-held
And then there's landmark titles like David Holzman's Diary and Blair Witch Project.

And that's not even digging deep!

***************************

Clearly you aren't familiar with "Video 101", otherwise you wouldn't have put your foot in your mouth again. "Shakey" vs. "Steady" is ultimately, in the hands of a pro and even a seasoned hobbyist, an artistic decision, with valid reasons for doing both at various times. And neither is mutually exclusive to nor the sole domain of Handhelds and handholding.

Don't worry about the hiring, I don't think anyone is asking to work with you with your attitude.

Scott

[newpball]

Blair Witch Project

Oh boy!

I know, I am just not intelligent enough to see the radiating brilliance:

[newpball]

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/12/masterclass-in-handheld-camera-operating-from-place-be...p-sean-bobbitt

ROTF.

An Arri handheld, yeah sure!

He, well more like his assistant, is using a shoulder rig in this masterclass.

[Cornucopia]

Guess not. Cost $35,000 to make. Grossed $248 million and spawned many, many parallels, copies, spinoffs, sequels, merch etc. And Roger Ebert gave it 4 stars. That's a pretty "radiatingly brilliant" coup if you ask me.

It may not be your or my or many peoples' cup of tea, but you got to give it due respect for masterful execution. Or don't, be curmudgeonly closed-minded and look like a fool. Your choice.

Scott

[smrpix]

He, well more like his assistant, is using a shoulder rig in this masterclass.

Stop embarrassing yourself. It's a normal Alexa with arri handles -- no special rig.

[newpball]

He, well more like his assistant, is using a shoulder rig in this masterclass.

Stop embarrassing yourself. It's a normal Alexa with arri handles -- no special rig.

Yeah sure that makes the big difference, it's really feather light



I would love to see a video demo of Cornucopia demonstrating how to record with this one handheld, no not shoulder supported, but fully in the hands.

[_Al_]

Go to the store and try latest top camcorder consumer models, start with Sony .... Optical stabilization is somewhere else than it was 5 years ago .... Unless you are sort of disabled, handheld shooting is not that big deal as it was ... Use both hands.

The bigger camcorder, rig, the more you "change" or influence objects, people you shoot. They are not relaxed anymore, they change into actors. Using light enhances that even more, You cannot go into park and shoot your kid with friend with a rig and $5000 camera with huge lens. It is not going to be spontaneous and all.
But, you go into soccer game and some might play better, because they will be on TV. BTW, how would you record that soccer game, not using hand held camcorder? It is up to you what you are going to do. But with a "rig" or big camcorder as a tourist for example, you will even not get out of the door because someone would stop you, telling you that you cannot shoot there. Etc.

Also at home before you get that "rig" ready, your kid is done with whatever you want to shoot.

[smrpix]

Yeah sure that makes the big difference, it's really feather light

More weight -- up to a certain point-- actually contributes to stability in hand-held work. (The base Alexa is about 15 lbs which is a very good spot for shoulder-mounted work. That's where the classic Sony BVW-300 news camera landed as well) Balance is more the issue, and these cameras are superbly designed ergonomically.

I would love to see a video demo of Cornucopia demonstrating how to record with this one handheld, no not shoulder supported, but fully in the hands.

"Hand-held" has always included shoulder-mounted. You don't get to reinvent longstanding terminology just to escape conceding your foolishness.

[newpball]

"Hand-held" has always included shoulder-mounted. You don't get to reinvent longstanding terminology just to escape conceding your foolishness.

Anyone can read the context of the discussion:

It has no lenses, and more importantly: no recorder! Its output is via SDI (or possibly HDMI), so if you wanted to "record 4k", you would have to buy expensive lenses (~$1000 and up) and you would have to get something like an atomos shogun (~$2000), so your intended $1295 cost is now really $4295, and that is without accessories such as power, storage media, audio, remote control. And mounting - since at that point, it is no longer some little "handheld".

[newpball]

Go to the store and try latest top camcorder consumer models, start with Sony .... Optical stabilization is somewhere else than it was 5 years ago .... Unless you are sort of disabled, handheld shooting is not that big deal as it was ... Use both hands.

I respectfully disagree, handheld (no I do not mean shoulder mount, steady cam or other tools), is bad.

BTW, how would you record that soccer game, not using hand held camcorder?

As a one-man job? Can't really do that well!

I would get at least one more camera man. You simply need a second man for continuity if you are going to do any kind of closeups. Tripods all the way. And with two fixed, unmanned, cams well positioned at each goal. Sound would be a major pain, you need to rent expensive directionals to get any of the kicking recorded!

[sophisticles]

I respectfully disagree, handheld (no I do not mean shoulder mount, steady cam or other tools), is bad.

I'm trying to understand why you seem to think handheld is bad; yes the raw footage you shoot will be shaky but that's true with a shoulder mounted camera as well, It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia is shot using a shoulder mount as are many tv shows, as you should know once you shoot your raw footage then you frame the footage in an editor down to whatever your mastering resolution will be. For instance Gone Girl was shot in 6k but framed and graded in 2.5k for the master, which was then used to create the final 1080p movie.

I must be missing something because your point would only be valid if the above mastering technique wasn't part of the production process.

[newpball]

I'm trying to understand why you seem to think handheld is bad; yes the raw footage you shoot will be shaky but that's true with a shoulder mounted camera as well,

True, but it is distinctly different. Shoulder mount can be very effective to mimic body movement and is obviously useful at times. Pure HANDHELD* however is a complete mess.

It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia is shot using a shoulder mount as are many tv shows, as you should know once you shoot your raw footage then you frame the footage in an editor down to whatever your mastering resolution will be. For instance Gone Girl was shot in 6k but framed and graded in 2.5k for the master, which was then used to create the final 1080p movie.

Not caring about recording because "we'll fix it in post" is a terribly shortsighted and also lazy attitude. Condoning this attitude is also bad leadership, if the leader is willing to cut corners then before you know it everybody cuts corners!

Fixing things in post should be used as a last resort, it is something that should be avoided as much as possible.

Sure there is software to stabilize a clip but with pure HANDHELD* it simply does not look good.

Of course each rule is once in a while broken, a few seconds of hand held may be effective in certain scenes.

*HANDHELD = Pure hand held, not shoulder-mount, steady cam or other tools.