recording a 4 person interview

[comstock]

I have a alesis 12r mixer I need to record video and audio for a 4 person interview, I have sony ecm-77b's xlr, how does this hookup, does it
go direct to my canon xf-300, line in or does it go to my computer? I've only done 1 person interviews, so I don't understand the setup, anyones help would be appreciated. thanks

[newpball]

You mixer does not have digital out, so you would have to mix with the mixer to stereo and capture the stereo out with a digital audio interface.

With 5 mikes not ideal at all to say the least! You really would want 5 channels to edit in post.

What you would want is an audio interface with at least 5 powered mike inputs (looks like your mikes need phantom power)

I would recommend Motu, for instance this one:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/8preUSB

For sync of audio and video you should simply run the canon with audio as well as there are tools to sync the miked and canon sources automatically. Saves you a lot of headaches down the line!

Obviously you need both a DAW and an NLE to make a good production.

Have fun!

[Cornucopia]

@newpball - dead link. Also, I don't think the OP mentioned the # of mics, but 5 wouldn't be out of the ordinary anyway!

IIRC, those mics have a spot in the XLR base that allow for AA battery to supply the phantom power. So, no worries about powering.

If you trust your "live mixing" capability, going to 2ch output isn't terrible, it just doesn't leave options to post if they were to be necessary. With more than 3, however, it becomes a bit unwieldy to ride gain (which would be necessary to avoid noise buildup or phasing due to crosstalk). Ultimately, you'd want a noise gate/compander on each channel as an insert.

If you don't expect to do multi-camera, or don't expect to do double-system audio, then YES, you should connect straight up to the Canon XLRs (line in).

What are your distances/layout for this interview?

Scott

[comstock]

Im taking over a job, the person before me, had the alesis 12r its has 8 xlr ports, I dont see anything else in his equipment that the alesis 12r would hookup to he's been doing depositions, using 3-4 mics off of the 12r I just figured it would be a line in to the xf-300? thanks for your help

[julitomg]

No problem:

The ECM77 microphones connect directly to the mixer (you could need XLR male to female cables as needed according to distance), the mixer´s Main Out go to your camcorder´s XLR input, just make sure to select Line level input instead of Mic Level (and phantom Off), you could also connect the mixer to an external digital recorder (with XLR inputs or via adapters), in that case (or when recordin directly to a computer) you´ll need to sync the audio in post.
The suggested interface is useful if you really need to edit each separate input (mic), but, then what´s the point of using a good mixer like the Alesis?...oh...and the ECM77 do not need phantom power, they have their own battery power supply.

[newpball]

@newpball - dead link. Also, I don't think the OP mentioned the # of mics, but 5 wouldn't be out of the ordinary anyway!

Thanks for mentioning and sorry for that!

Hmm, it seems Sweetwater has linking issues.

Search for: MOTU 8pre USB

[Cornucopia]

Let me clarify: the 77s connect to the mixer, the mixer connects direct to the Canon. Just like julitmong said. I said that before, but piecemeal.

Since your outs on the mixer seem to be 1/4" (pic looks like only input has XLR), you'll need 2 (stereo) 1/4" (male) to XLR adapters (male). This will get you to the Canon.

Hopefully, you will have a dedicated audio mixer person separate from the camera person - a depo is something where you want to make sure of absolute clarity and you need someone constantly checking level.
Actually, it would make even more sense to use inline N.G./Xpd, because you don't want the audio guy to be too slow to catch something said and have it legally blow up in your face. Having a machine that responds quickly can "turn up" the mic without losing valuable audio, much moreso than an audio person ever could. Especially when the talent/client is speaking unpredictably.
If you cannot afford buying them, consider renting for the day.

Something like this: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MDX4600

Scott

[comstock]

the distance is close 10 ft I have the xlr male/female adapters as well as plenty of cables so thats all good, it really was the connection either to the canon xf 300
or a recorder, but then I would have to sync later on so I guess if it goes back to the xf300 that would work and its not music its people talking so its not as critical, its for a law deposition. thanks alot for all the input I do appreciate it!

[smrpix]

If this is for depositions, feed the camera directly from the mixer rather than sync it in post.

The reason isn't technical, it's practical. The more you "manipulate" your elements the greater the chance opposing counsel will challenge you and the more of a headache to prove you've done nothing wrong.

[Cornucopia]

I agree. I've done depo's before and that - and the need for speedy turnaround - is a significant reason NOT to go double-system or do post work.

...Actually, if you can hook your Canon up to an Atomos Ninja (or similar HDMI recorder), you could automatically have a 2nd copy available to opposing counsel (or neutral 3rd party/judge/mediator/moderator) without waiting.

Scott

[turk690]

...a dedicated audio mixer person separate from the camera person - a depo is something where you want to make sure of absolute clarity and you need someone constantly checking level...

...which is the wretched hi-and-miss difficulty in situations like this that call essentially for recording more than two channels of audio down to two, on the fly. There will almost always be something amiss after previewing in post that can only be mitigated, not really corrected.
A recorder that can indeed record to more than two tracks simultaneously (and produce as many files as there are microphones allowed, perfectly in sync, ready to be edited & mixed in all ways imaginable, and not nearly cost an arm and a leg) does exist: the Zoom R16. It accepts eight XLR inputs and if all used will create eight separate *.WAV or *.MP3 files on an SD card. It can be daisy chained with another, for a total of 16-tracks of simultaneous recording (as opposed to other mixer/recorders of the same ilk with multiple inputs that will only allow recording to two tracks simultaneously ).
Before, I was always at the mercy of the mix FoH guys created with their mixer consoles; they will always mix for optimum house sound, not for recording; and will almost always sum everything up so the two-channel console record out was mono. Connecting each individual microphone channel out to the R16 has saved the day.

[Cornucopia]

Yes, technically it would be the preferable way to go. But legally, it can become a nightmare. Lawyers do not want to have their recording be subject to scrutiny and/or complaints of tampering. Post processing/mixing is treated as a last resort in their world. Think provenance/chain-of-evidence. If it gets "worked on" by some "outside party", then that party, as well as the material, has to be vetted as professional & reputable by everyone, etc., or there's hell to pay.

Therefore, it's not CAN it be done, it's SHOULD it be done.

But the idea that "recording is hit-or-miss" is misplaced, because a per-channel set of in-line NoiseGate+Expander+Compressor+Limiter modules can perform both the vocal leveling/limiting that is necessary for an even sound, as well as the ducking necessary to avoid channel-noise buildup.
So, with those inserted, you can set a strong level for each channel previous to the depo recording and then "forget it" - the modules will ride the remainder without losing anything.
And the use of separate & different panning on each input to give a stereo "soundstage" maintains separateness enough for clarity of voice (understandability & identifiability) purposes.

Ultimately, the interested parties (clients, lawyers, judges, law enforcement, etc.) are going to want this mixed down. And if there is no post stage to be expected (or desired), mitigating something is pointless. Just get it done right (as right as possible), on-the-spot, automatically.

********************************

For multi-voice interviews, concerts, etc. it would make much more sense to go with multitrack recording, but for depos and other forensic work, the rules are different.
Maybe you haven't done them before, turk690, so you might not realize the important differences - I have and do.

Scott

BTW, @comstock, maybe you should change the thread topic/title to read "deposition" instead of "interview", for posterity.

[turk690]

Just get it done right (as right as possible), on-the-spot, automatically.

I hear you. That's why the R16 is ideal. You can have your cake and eat it too. There are level meters and all sorts of processing on-the-fly as recording goes on. After the depo is over, press a few buttons and in an instant a mix of all the mic inputs are output to another track/file. Then you simply swipe out the SD and give it to the judge. If all the mic inputs were used, then you have 9 *.wav or *.mp3 files on the card: 1 for each mic, which they can endlessly study, and the mixed track. All hawkish eyes are naturally on whoever is handling the R16. Apart from the mics (and their stands, clips, and cables) and the R16, nothing else is in the room, no computer, laughtop, etc. No stereo, panning, post-editing, etc issues here; it's as straightforward as it gets. The witness with the wispiest voice is as clearly heard as the sledgehammer-voiced lawyer....

[Cornucopia]

Not quite ideal.
It does have compressor & limiter, but those are only FX applied AFTER being recorded (you'd still have to either have something inline upstream or be riding gain, or both, otherwise there could be clipping). Also, there is no Expander or Noise Gate (I looked in the manual). Plus, mixdown/bounce to stereo track would NOT be instantaneous (certainly not for a 2+ hour multichannel recording), and then you have to get the files copied from the master card to duplicates.

...And THEN you have to marry the soundfile to the video file, with whatever syncing hurdles and time involved with that process. Plus, that recorder only records at 44.1kHz, so you will have to do a SRC to get it to the (video) industry standard 48kHz, which involves more time.

Not THAT straightforward after all.

Scott

[turk690]

Not THAT straightforward after all.

It's true you can't have everything, but you can have a close approximation thereof. If OP goes ahead with his alesis 12R and canon xf300, everything gets mixed down to his camcorder; no individual tracks are preserved. I still get the R16 console out and plug it into my Canon FX10 and that would probably be the same thing. The difference here is I have separate copies of each individual microphone audio, which the powers-that-be can have if they wish, along with the mix that was (carefully) recorded on the Canon. Anyone with USB sticks can also have copies of the audio on the spot after the depo if they wish. The R16 is also portable so no big deal recording in most places indoors or out, not nearly possible with the alesis. Lastly, the wretched recorder does not clip as horribly as you might think. I have done this setup for council and company meetings (which may or may not nearly approximate depos?) and everyone was happy.

[Cornucopia]

There is a level of scrutiny applied to depos that aren't applied to council/company meetings, but otherwise, they share similar technical, if not logistic & legal, requirements.

...well, there's a couple of alternatives for the OP to think about.

Scott