Hauppauge PVR2 - audio sync issue with Hauppauge Capture -- alternative?

[texas1]

using Hauppauge PVR2 - Gaming Edition Plus with HDCP splitter/stripper ViewHD.
Signal is indeed getting to laptop which is using Hauppauge Capture.
First tried the default audio setting of Mpeg but had audio sync issue. Then set to AAC and still had audio sync issue. Demux/remux with tSmuxer but no luck.

Is there an alternative HDMI video capture software? Can Virtualdub work with HDMI HD capture?

thanks for any advice.

[usually_quiet]

Alternate software is Capture4ME, and GamerCap. If you know how to use them GraphStudio or GraphEdit are other options.

The HD-PVR 2 can only hardware encode. Virtualdub does not work with any capture device that does not encode using software.

[texas1]

I downloaded the trial versions of Capture4ME ($20 license) and GamerCap ($30 license) and found they are both created by the same company - NextPVR.

Interestingly, NextPVR has a free version here on Tools but the bitrate is maxed at 9mbs VBR. I was able to change the config file to 14mbs (for 720p) and found the capture to be much more stable than the Hauppauge Capture which often had freeze frames which then resulted in 1-3 seconds of lost transmission (which sucks when I'm recording a sports event). The NextPVR version 3.3.8 config file is found in C\Users\Public\NPVR\config.xml which can be edited by Notepad or by right click-edit on Win7.

Capture4ME and GamerCap have the same structure and location for their config files. Interestingly, so does Hauppauge Capture which implies that's also made by NextPVR.

Anyway, the NextPVR 3.3.8 with adjusted bitrate is much more stable than Hauppauge Capture , even though the base software seems to be the same for both. Make sure the Start NPVR Service has been activated; if necessary do the Stop NPVRService / Start NPVRService.
Recording from the DVR is primitive but effective - no preview screen on the laptop and use the Recordings and Man-Rec; then set a start and end time (time of day) - so you must know the length of your DVR program. I used ViewHD to defeat HDCP with Hauppauge GE+ 1504.

this produces an AVC file with AAC audio. I then used MKVmerge to smooth out the results (otherwise it won't author with multiavchd). I then used the MKVmerge file to author with Multiavchd (i disable EAC3to in multiavchd to try to eliminate audio sync issues). then burned to BD-R with ImgBurn with excellent results. Be sure to set Imgburn for 25gb BD-R at a 4x, otherwise the burn often fails at higher speeds.

Only 1 minor issue was a bit of thick color - oversaturation. NextPVR does have fancy config elements in video and audio decoders but they don't seem to stick even after one hits the Apply and OK -- as if the commands are ignored. Neverthless, this is minor and the software is FREE.

[usually_quiet]

Interesting that NextPVR works better, and that you are willing to use it. I use NextPVR (as PVR software) and have recommended it in the past, but in every case those who want capture software found it bloated and too much work to set up.

[SHS]

Just so you all know the Hauppauge Capture Tool is also by NextPVR

[texas1]

Just so you all know the Hauppauge Capture Tool is also by NextPVR

looking at the menu and then even the config files, the structure is the same, so yes, I agree that it's the same base software with a few tweak add ons.

[texas1]

Interesting that NextPVR works better, and that you are willing to use it. I use NextPVR (as PVR software) and have recommended it in the past, but in every case those who want capture software found it bloated and too much work to set up.

setting up the one channel to get the feed takes about a minute. I had to unplug teh power of the PVR2 to get it recognized by NextPVR. The Manual Recordign is a bit clumsy but so far so good on stability and lack of freeze frames/skipping.

i can understand why some would consider it "bloated" since it has lots of features such as programmed recorded (which I did not try). But for my singular task of DVR capping, it's good.

I also downloaded the ElGato capture software but it doesn't recognize the Hauppauge hardware, not a surprise. Just wanted to see what the screen looks like and it seems to be very basic. Was considering Elgato HD capture box but purchased the Hauppage pvr2, as stated. I don't think the ElGato capture software is by NextPVR. Would be intereste to know about it's stability, reliability and accuracy regarding audio sync.

[usually_quiet]

The HD-PVR 2 needs to be power cycled regularly as you did, and so does the Colossus, which I have. If this is not done, eventually Windows can't find the device, and whatever capture software you try to use won't detect it either. Power cycling normally corrects the problem, but you need to know the issue exists.

The Elgato HD has its own quirks. It creates segmented TS files during recording which its capture software re-muxes into an mp4. Its capture software uses a lot of CPU resources, and there are no alternatives if you find it unsatisfactory.

[texas1]

I spoke too soon in my praise for the Hauppauge PVR2 in conjuction with NextPVR. After recording and burning a 2hour 59 minutes football game onto a BDR, I found a total of 7 errors in just the first 46 minutes! (I had split the game into 4 quarters).

The 7 errrors were 6 skips of data (each missing about 1-2 seconds of game play) and 1 shake of screen but no data missed. This is an unacceptable level of misery.

I have a feeling the PVR2 itself is feeding bad data to the laptop (i5) and NextPVR is not to blame. Just a hunch but I could be wrong.

I have high opinion of my old Haupauge PVR 1212 which has been a dependable workhorse for over 4 years working with ArcSoft Total Media Extreme. That is why I bought the PVR2 1504.

Is the Elgato box incompatible with NextPVR? Will the NextPVR software not recognize the Elgato device or the eventual data signal?

[usually_quiet]

Is the Elgato box incompatible with NextPVR? Will the NextPVR software not recognize the Elgato device or the eventual data signal?

I guess what I wrote before was not clear enough. The Elgato Game Capture HD does not work with any software other than the manufacturer's, so no it does not work with anything from NextPVR. In this case the manufacturer's software is the Elgato Game Capture software supplied with the device and EyeTV, which is PVR software for OS X and not included on the install disc.

The Elgato Game Capture HD won't even work properly with GraphStudio or GraphEdit. The DirectShow filters don't allow access to the H.264 transport stream produced by the Elgato Game Capture HD's hardware encoder. The Elgato Game Capture HD's DirectShow filters can only supply decompressed video from the H.264 transport stream, already decoded by your PC.

[texas1]

thanks. I've downloaded the ElGato capture software from their website. Doesn't seem to have any controls for saturation or contrast etc.

I don't know why PVR2 is having so much data corruption. The PVR1212 never did; only diff was component and a USB-USB wire (not microUSB). I also used 13.5mbs/constant bitrate on the 1212 but am doing 14mbs/CBR on the 1504.

[usually_quiet]

Your editor of choice may not be well suited to working directly with the messy H.264 transport stream produced by the HD-PVR 2. Did you ever try VideoReDo TV Suite H.264's Quick Stream Fix or TSDoctor to straighten out the mess prior to editing?

[Edit] Without having the Elgato Game Capture HD and its drivers installed, it may not be possible to tell if Proc Amp controls are available. Those are often supplied by the capture device's drivers' DirectShow Filters.

[texas1]

yes, i have videoredo and did the Quickstream fix before editing and still had frame(s) skipping - which I only discoverd upon playing the BD-R on the bluray player.

Basically, I've understood my initial problem of audiosync and resolved that as well as bitrates and authoring.

My only problem remains the garbage of skipping frames . I have a 3 or 4 year old version of TSdoctor and will do another 1 hour capture and report results . My original "raw" file was deleted after authoring (i did not anticipate skipping frames). I will apply TSdoctor to the "raw capture".

*i forgot to state (in my earlier posts) that I use Videoredo to edit out commercials and chop up the football game into quarters (each about 40 minutes).

I need an all-powerful data garbage correction software

[usually_quiet]

Do you unplug the HD-PVR 2 between uses so it is power cycled regularly? That may help if the HD-PVR 2 is the source of the problem.

[texas1]

yes, power cycling is a good idea and I do that often, but should do it before every single use certainly.

Digging through several forums - found this... seems that VideoRedo doesn't work well with Hauppauge Capture. One user suggested always remuxing before any editing. He used TSMuxer. I will try that as well as MKVmerge, then get a (.ts) file which I will attempt to then edit by VideoRedo.

Perhaps teh original capture is too delicate or done in a way that VRD cannot process correctly. I found that after a VRD Quicksteam fix, all scenes were there, but after an edit of commercials, some frames (of gameplay) disappeared in terms of 1 or 2 seconds.

I will remux first and report results.

from another forum.. I don't think the VRD problem was with 1212's TME, but with 1512/1504's Hauppauce Capture (which uses NextPVR).


--------------------

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1689785&postcount=4

There's some more info from VRD at this point. It seems that ALL of the Hauppauge recordings that are edited with VRD are screwed up. Because (I guess) the SEI is unstable due to the way the Hauppauge makes recordings, it is only made even worse by VRD. They're recommending running it through TSmuxer FIRST before editing so that the SEI will be re-written and everything will be fine once it's edited.

A few frames are recoded around every edit point with VRD so there will likely be some sort of problem at every edit with Hauppauge files. It also depends from player to player how it will manifest itself.

From one of the authors:
Quote:
The problem is likely a mismatch between the few frames we have to recode for the edit and the original stream. Our encoder doesn't support every possible H.264 option, so if your source stream is using something it can't support then there will be a slight mismatch which could cause the error you're seeing.
They're (hopefully) working on a fix for it but there's no guarantee that they'll be able to fix the files that are already screwed up. Although TSmuxer can fix short files (probably around 1-2 minutes), anything longer it crashes. I'm hopeful that there's a way to fix it for larger files. *fingers crossed*

However, from this point forward, I'll run every recording through TSmuxer FIRST and then go from there with regards to editing and burning. It's just shocking that it's taken 4 years to find this problem.

[LMotlow]

I have my own beef with Hauppauge's recodings and audio sync. Demux with TSMuxer, VideoReDo didn't help sync on 1 out of 3 of recordings. I had to do twists and turns on those 1 of 3 to get audio right. and some originals weren't smart renderable, either. Some before/after samples in this post: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/367857-%5BPartial-Fix%5D-No-smart-rendering-TS-Reco...=1#post2357355. The convoluted workaround I'm using on these mavericks is in post #21 of the same thread. Pain in the butt.

[usually_quiet]

All I can tell you is that I use VideoReDo TV Suite H.264 to edit captures made with the Colossus and NextPVR without a problem in the resulting file or excessive corrections by VideoReDo, unless one of two things is true. The video or audio being captured is itself problematic, or the Colossus is approaching the point where it needs power cycling. Note that the Colossus, HD-PVR and HD-PVR 2 all have different encoder chips.

Maybe its the encoder option I use, or maybe I'm just lucky.

[LMotlow]

The other 2 of 3 Hauppauge recordings have no issues with audio sync or smart rendering. For those, VideoReDo and TMPGenc work fine with a single run in only a few minutes.

If I had to build a newer HD PVR with fan-cooling for 24/7 use, I'd choke. I don't find restarting necessary, although I did try it but with no improvement.

[texas1]

I have my own beef with Hauppauge's recodings and audio sync. Demux with TSMuxer, VideoReDo didn't help sync on 1 out of 3 of recordings. I had to do twists and turns on those 1 of 3 to get audio right. and some originals weren't smart renderable, either. Some before/after samples in this post: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/367857-%5BPartial-Fix%5D-No-smart-rendering-TS-Reco...=1#post2357355. The convoluted workaround I'm using on these mavericks is in post #21 of the same thread. Pain in the butt.

thanks - is yours the HDPVR 1212 or the HDPVR2 series?
I have the 1212 for years and never had a problem with audio since that allowed capture in original AC3 whereas the new PVR2 software only allows AAC or MP3.

[LMotlow]

HDPVR 1212. A friend has HDPVR2 with the same issues. The audio codec doesn't seem to make a difference.

[usually_quiet]

I have the 1212 for years and never had a problem with audio since that allowed capture in original AC3 whereas the new PVR2 software only allows AAC or MP3.

The old Hauppauge HD-PVR 2 Gaming Edition 1480 does not have the ability to capture AC3 audio. The ability to use AC3 recording was added to the Hauppauge HD-PVR 2 Gaming Edition Plus 1504 and HD-PVR 2 1512.

I think that driver version 1.3.31062 fixed a bug that sometimes prevented the HD-PVR 2 1512 from capturing the original AC3 audio if the device's HDMI passthrough wasn't in use.

However, the HD-PVR 2 1512 and 1504 don't have the ability to encode Dolby Digital/AC3. They can only capture AC3 audio when they receives it via HDMI or optical S/PDIF. This means that your set-top box must be set up to output 5.1 channel AC3 over HDMI to record 5.1 channel AC3 audio from HDMI. If your set-top box is set up to output LPCM over HDMI, the HD-PVR 2 1512 and 1504 can only record two channel AAC audio.

[texas1]

thanks - I'm just interested in any version of AC3, can be 5.1 or stereo (hope I have that concept correct).
I've unchecked the "disable HDMI aC3 support" in the Audio Encoder section but no luck.

Can Virtualdub capture Hauppauge HDMI? Should I start a new thread for that or is this ok here?

I start Virtualdub
- capture AVI
- Device

- Hauppauge Siena Video Capture (DirectShow). But when select this the error "VirtualDub cannot connect to the desired capture driver".

how can that be resolved?

[usually_quiet]

thanks - I'm just interested in any version of AC3, can be 5.1 or stereo (hope I have that concept correct).
I've unchecked the "disable HDMI aC3 support" in the Audio Encoder section but no luck.

Can Virtualdub capture Hauppauge HDMI? Should I start a new thread for that or is this ok here?

I start Virtualdub
- capture AVI
- Device

- Hauppauge Siena Video Capture (DirectShow). But when select this the error "VirtualDub cannot connect to the desired capture driver".

how can that be resolved?

The capture software also has to be set up to capture audio from HDMI and the source device has to be set up to do AC3 audio pass-through via HDMI, not LPCM.

You asked about Virtualdub in your first post in this thread. The answer is still no, it won't work with any of the hardware in the HD-PVR 2 product line using any connection because of the HD-PVR 2's hardware encoder. The problem can never be resolved because Virtualdub only works with capture devices that allow using software to encode.

[Edit]The original HD-PVR could generate AC-3 output via it hardware encoder. The encoders used in Colossus and HD-PVR 2 models can't encode audio to AC3. The Colossus and HD-PVR 2 models can only capture AC3 audio, and this requires AC3 audio to be received as input from the source device. (AC3 in produces AC3 out and there is no audio re-encoding. LPCM in produces AAC or MP3 out via audio re-encoding.)

[texas1]

another newbie question... when installing Hauppauge Capture, we have a choice of device profile. Since my source is a DVR, not sure which to choose among the 2 sets of HDMI choices. Does it make a difference?

[oldfart13]

I use Arcsoft Showbiz that used to be included with the older HDPVR and I have yet to have any of the problems you describe. Using a HDPVR 2 and sourced from a satellite STB, the recordings done at 14 Mbps are superb! See if you can use that. Also, record in M2TS format. That seems to have the best compatability with programs like Videoredo and Handbrake...

[usually_quiet]

another newbie question... when installing Hauppauge Capture, we have a choice of device profile. Since my source is a DVR, not sure which to choose among the 2 sets of HDMI choices. Does it make a difference?

I found I preferred ArcSoft Showbiz to Hauppauge Capture and don't have Hauppauge Capture installed anymore. I have been relying on memory and screenshots to answer your questions about Hauppauge Capture. I don't recall what those device profile choices are and have not found what looks like a screenshot for them.

I set up ArcSoft Showbiz to use HDMI as the audio and video source and to use a TS file for output. I set the encoding parameters in the driver's DirectShow encoder module, which ArcSoft ShowBiz allows users to access. Note that the version of ArcSoft ShowBiz that Hauppauge includes with their HD capture devices has been customized and the standard versions of this software are unlikely to recognize Hauppauge's HD capture devices.

[texas1]

thanks to the 2 posts above.

I did not realize that ArcSoft Showbiz was included in the Hauppauge software and it's good to be customized to recognize the HDPVR2, which it did. I did a 58 minute capture at 14mbs, AAC with M2TS (as suggested above).

Without editing tried multiavchd on this original capture, but that failed with this 'subsection' of error.

Important files missing (clpi/mpls/m2ts)...
Possible tsMuxeR failure to process your input file (C:\XXXXXXXXXXX)
M2TS (media) file count: 1
CLPI (clipinfo) file count: 0
MPLS (playlist) file count: 0

so it seems the original capture cannot be authored into Multiavchd in a 'raw' state

---------------

then used VideoRedo to erase commercials. Using this (.ts) file to multiavchd resulted in an unplayable file in WindowMedia but VLC was able to play it with occasional pixelation. Burnt to DVD5 to play on the Sony BR player but terrible results.

then used MKVMerge on this (.ts) which worked well, followed by Multiavchd and tested for audiosync which was fine on the laptop. Then burnt to DVD5 for testing and was pleasantly surprised - no skipping anywhere and only 1 frame shake - but that was acceptable.

So it seems Showbiz is a much superior product than Hauppauge Capture. I was on the verge of returnign the box (still within 45 days of purchase) but OF13's post literally saved it.

I'm not sure why MKVMerge is a necessary intermediary step, but that's a minor issue. OF13 --- Videoredo does indeed work well with Showbiz , but do you author with Multiavchd (or other software) adn burn your recordings to a dvd/br disc? For that authoring step seems MKVMerge is necessary. Thanks much for your help.

----

I wish the PVR2 had a "hard encode" of AC3 as did the PVR1212 (thats my understanding reading UQ's posts). Then perhaps Showbiz / HCapture software could be patched with an AC3 capture setting as does the 1212. Is this really taht difficult to do? Seems possible since the 1212 box and TME already have this technology - why not just install it on the new generation of product???

[usually_quiet]

Arcsoft Showbiz is on the installation disc for the non-gaming HD-PVR 2, so I figured you either had one of the HD-PVR 2 Gaming Editions, which don't include it, or had tried and rejected ArcSoft Showbiz. Sorry I didn't suggest ArcSoft Showbiz in the first place.

Someone would have to write new drivers to enable AC3 encoding, but they would be illegal without paying for a AC3 license. As I understand it, the decision not to provide AC3 encoding as an option was made because of the additional cost of the required AC3 license. Notice that the HD capture devices from AVerMedia and Elgato which also hardware encode don't offer AC3 encoding as an option either. The needs of gamers are now driving development in the consumer HD capture market. AAC audio would be the preferred choice for those who want to upload/stream their video game captures to the Internet.

[texas1]

thanks for your help for the last several days. Funny thing is that I ordered the 1512 but they sent the 1504 by mistake, even packed in a 1512 packaging. So my order was really mixed up, lots of cables that I didn't look at too intently and the install disk. I think they sent me the install disc for the 1512 which worked out fine, even for the 1504.

edit: I did not buy directly from Hauppauge.com but from another online retailer who put the 1504 model in the 1512 packaging along with the relevant 1512 cables and software as depicted in the Hauppauge 1512 Gallery. I guess this retailer exhausted their 1512 supply and were mailing off 1504 models (which are a tiny bit more expensive).

[usually_quiet]

thanks for your help for the last several days. Funny thing is that I ordered the 1512 but they sent the 1504 by mistake, even packed in a 1512 packaging. So my order was really mixed up, lots of cables that I didn't look at too intently and the install disk. I think they sent me the install disc for the 1512 which worked out fine, even for the 1504.

I checked the product listings in Hauppauge's online store, and it looks like all 3 versions the HD-PVR 2 include Arcsoft ShowBiz. So it appears my memory was playing tricks on me.