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  1. This may be from the never do anything bigger than your head department but it's something I want to investigate.

    An old and poorly transferred video had the correct language audio.

    A newer video transfer from a better source has the incorrect audio language.

    Goal: get the language audio desired with the better quality video.

    These are file sources not dvd.

    I did not know how to see any search items for this but if there is a guide prepared that is
    on this subject please advise.

    I'm going to assume a demux procedure.

    But there is an additional bigger than my head wrinkle: the run time on one is different from the other. From viewing both it looks like something is just edited off the end of the piece. But there's no real way to know until a remux procedure is done with the language audio and the
    better quality video.

    I have done some things like this but not with all the timing problems which may arise.

    To begin the audio video separation: Is PGC Demux the right tool to use for this? Or perhaps going directly into MeGUI ( which I still want to learn?)
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  2. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Location: Yank in Europe
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    First things first. You say there are "languages" involved. Make sure you are not also dealing with an NTSC vs. PAL issue first.
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  3. Since you mention PGC Demux and MeGUI I take it that you're using a Windows OS.

    And since you say

    These are file sources not dvd
    I take it it's two video file and not a ripped DVD - in which case there is no need for PGC Demux and it may be fruitful to upload the output of MediaInfoXP for the files.

    MeGUI is an encoder should perhaps be avoided if possible - beside it takes time it inherently gives a quality degradation (you decide if itīs noticable).

    I don't know how you intend to view the final product but perhaps you could use MKVMergeGUI selecting the video from one file and the audio from the other and if your sense that one of the video is trim at the end use the splitting option on the Global tab
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  4. I gave MeGui a whirl and it created an .AC3 file fine for the English Demux.
    Then I ttried to do the same thing on the Deutch and couldn't get a saved file.

    The englsih version is 125 mins in m4v format

    The Deutch or German is 118 minutes in avi format.

    If I attempted to use MeGui on error, my bad.

    I'm grateful for any help[ from scratch.

    Perhaps G-Spot will give the NTSC/ Pal info for at least the .avi side of the job.

    I will use Media Info as well and report back.

    Final product I'm considering for personal use, though the content is public domain-- one version comes from
    the Internet Archive of features films.
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  5. Member
    Join Date: Jun 2012
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    Stick both versions onto different tracks in a regular NLE timeline, Vegas Movie Studio, Pinnacle, etc.

    Sync up the first shot. Set the transparency on the upper layer to 50% and see where the differences are.
    Cut, slip, trim and slide until they match.
    Delete the audio and video you don't want.
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  6. Well thisis completely new to me. Never used Vegas Movie Studio. What is the NLE timeline?

    Is transparency, then, a way to view both in overlap? Amazing. More video magic.

    I'm still working on getting the Media Info-- not a big job but other things to do. Vegas Movie Studio sounds like a complex piece to learn. Freeware?
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  7. Member
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    Since every other piece of software you've mentioned requires you to do this essentially "blind," IMHO the learning curve is worth it. There's a 15 day free trial and lots of tutorials.
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  8. Blind will have to do. No sense in starting something I'd have to spend $140 on.

    This project is of a poor quality film from 1956 which is obscure except for it's reputation as a somewhat special film I saw as a child. As I stated at the beginning I don't even know how big of a job this is unless it's merely remuxing an alternate sound track.

    Been preoccupied but I will have that Pal/NTSC info shortly. I am surprised that the MeGUI tool would deliver
    a poor quality product as stated above but I defer to the opinions here.
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  9. Super Moderator Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    One thing about different movie versions is that sometimes they have different scenes changes in that one version it takes 3 seconds to get to the next scene and the other version it takes 5 seconds,so if the video has 14 different scene changes you will never be able to sync the audio.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  10. Member
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    Originally Posted by loninappleton View Post
    Blind will have to do. No sense in starting something I'd have to spend $140 on.
    It's actually closer to $40, and the first bad splice in either of the versions will throw you off with no way to know what's going on. You will never finish the job running blind.
    Last edited by smrpix; 26th Aug 2014 at 20:30.
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  11. What I'm hearing here is that it's too complicated and you may be right. I'd opt for subtitles but I've looked and couldn't find any. Like I said, this is a piece of content from long ago and far away.

    It may be just a bad idea for the result.
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  12. Member
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    It's not particularly complicated -- just potentially tedious -- and almost impossible if you insist on doing it with both hands tied behind your back. If you choose to use subtitles there is no guarantee they will not need sync adjustments as well.

    The issue is, if you cannot see what's wrong, you cannot know how to fix it.
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  13. Super Moderator Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Subtitles are much easier to edit than video files,only took me a couple hours to adjust one subtitle to fit a video with different scene length changes.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  14. Member
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    @johns0, are you using a subtitle editor that can ripple adjustments? If so, what is it? That's where I've always gotten snagged up with subs.

    (FWIW, I've never found making video trims and slips particularly hard or slow in a half-decent NLE either.)
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  15. Super Moderator Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    I use subtitle edit,as to ripple adjustments what do you mean exactly?
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  16. Member
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    Let's say you have 10 subtitles. If you have to move title 5 a second forward because of a video change, will it bring 6-10 along with it, or do they need to be pulled up individually?

    I use and like Subtitle Edit too -- but I have not found the ability to ripple edit.

    edit: Hey look, "set start and offset the rest." I'll have to play with that.
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  17. Super Moderator Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    I don't know of any subtitle editor that can do what you want.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  18. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    @johns0, there are "subtitle editing" modules in certain pro NLEs (incl. Avid Media Composer) that allow you to attach the text/links/etc. to "markers" in the timeline, right along with the Video and the Audio. An edit that occurs to a piece of video on the timeline (with subsequent ripples) can ALSO be set to similarly affect other tracks, including the "marker" tracks. Sounds to me exactly what the OP wants.

    Of course, MC is $$$. But you get what you pay for.

    I agree with smrpix, use an NLE for the V+A syncing. Don't tie your hands behind your back needlessly.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  19. Super Moderator Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Well that's the reason i haven't heard of them,cost too much money.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  20. I can see this thread is progressing and diverging. That's ok since 'ripple' and subtitle editing have been on my plate for a while-- a complex project which might involve all the things mentioned above: Pal vs NTSC, one edit that has a prologue the other doesn't, and what format was the subtitle done in anyway. I calculated and tried to hand edit and all the rest and still couldn't get an alignment.

    But today on this job I used GSpot to get the frames per second of the AVI version of the piece: 25 fps which indicates PAL or European format. This makes sense since it is the German version.

    On the MP4 version I do not know of an analysis program which will give the same sort of info as GSpot for .avi.

    Media Info which I tried to load and get analysis did not provide it as I was using it.

    Which tool should I use for MP4 and how to use it? I could not seem to open different views in Media Info.

    Hint: discussion of expensive professional tools will just add confusion.

    Going back, I think that I was able to get the information of fps working with subs but have not done it for audio.
    Regardless, my memory is not that good.
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  21. Continuing:

    Windows 7 Properties of the file gave 29 fps consistent with an English dub version of the German original.

    What is the next step in these forensics?

    The Pal version is of much higher quality. So the audio from the dub would need to be modified and merged.
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  22. Member
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    @loninappleton -- set your NLE project to match the properties of the PAL video you want to keep. Movie Studio (or whatever) will maintain the proper duration of the other version but blend or drop video frames to match the project. This does not matter as you are only interested in the audio and will be deleting the "bad" video.

    @johns0, cornucopia -- since most of my subtitle work involves original material, my normal workflow is indeed to compose and place subtitles in SubtitleEdit, then export them as text into Avid's subcap generator. There they can remain locked to the proper video and audio as modifications are made. Thanks again.
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  23. Today I looked up what the acronym NLE meant and read the whole wiki entry which is fairly long but kept me interested.

    They mentioned several free tools but which at videohelp would be unencumbered with shareware limitations?
    I'm not actively using Linux, though one tool was mentioned for that.
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  24. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    @loninappleton, "the next step in these forensics" is to take a step back and once again use MediaInfo, on BOTH clips.

    Gspot is useful for a few things: it is Graphical, has nice IBP frame visualization, a decode chain test, lists of installed codecs/filters/mediatypes. But it hasn't been updated in 7 years and it shows: it has very limited support for 3gp/3g2/mp4/mov/flv/wmv/asf, it has no support for mkv/mpeg-ts/newer-flv, no understanding of extended/non-standard PIDs (so no MPEG still support), no understanding of multiple video streams of any format (so no dual-mux 3D support), unhelpful mention of SAR, bad/limited calculation of the size of streams, and incorrect reading of certain code types or of conflicting codes.

    Unless you specifically NEED Gspot for one of those few benefits, use MediaInfo. It is fully supportive of ALL current media types and is still updated, understands much more complex structures. (though it has its limitations also)

    If your installation of MediaInfo didn't work, try again. You load the file into it and use the DETAILED text readout and can post the text HERE. That is the best way to fully get to the heart of what might or might not be a conflict.

    Once we all know fully what you've got we'll be able to better tell you whether you can get by with simpler cut/join editor tools or whether you'll need an NLE. Though, if it were me, I'd just drop the stuff into an NLE and be done with it. Truthfully, if you had followed smrpix's advice of post #5, you'd likely be done already.

    Scott

    <edit>Oh, and BTW, since you live in USA, you will have problems on some/much NTSC equipment if you retain the PAL (German) video vs the NTSC video. Not a problem if you're remaining fully in PC-land, but just warning you if you want this to go to a settop-playble DVD, etc.</edit>
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  25. Scott,

    Reading your reply with much good detail I was reminded of the saying used by the Western music group Riders In The Sky during their radio broadcasts in which Ranger Doug would say "It'd be the easy way, but it wouldn't be _the Cowboy Way_."

    I have more time than money.

    I have MediaInfo but may not have used it correctly and will make a new report when I see what I can do with the detailed report.
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  26. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    By the way, I wasn't making up or generalizing those bad points: I tested each and every one of them with clips from my library to verify.
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  27. I was able to load the avi or mp4 into Media Info and select text format. But how to export it to paste here for
    analysis?
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  28. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Uhmm. [File | Export | Text]-[OK]....

    Then open the resulting text file, select all, copy, then paste...

    (seriously? It feels like you didn't even try.)

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  29. Member Deter's Avatar
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    PAL audio to an NTSC video and you want to sync the audio? Is that correct? You wont spend $140. I wouldn't do this work for less than $500. You will never figure it out, nor get it to sync.

    **** I could do this but it would be a nightmare

    Hint - If this is a film why don't you just go out and buy it. If it is not on DVD just buy the VHS tape of it....
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  30. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Uhmm. [File | Export | Text]-[OK]....

    Then open the resulting text file, select all, copy, then paste...

    (seriously? It feels like you didn't even try.)

    Scott
    Nope I did look. The top menuing vs vertical buttons etc. I found file and export but didn't have a field open up to give the text a name. Is that so hard to do? Seriously?
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