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  1. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2014
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    I'm new to this forum and first-time poster.

    My Acura plays DVD-A discs and, with help from this forum, I finally figured out how to pull the audio from concert DVDs and make DVD-A from the stream. Thanks for that!

    I have Dark Side of the Moon as a 5.1 DVD-A in 24bit/96khz (from the Immersion box set...more or less ). As I was making the same of Wish You Were Here this morning, DVD-Audio Solo Ultra would only allow output of 16bit on a 96khz 5.1 mix. After researching, I discovered the MBPS limitation which is why I couldn't get 24/96.

    However, I just learned that the Close to the Edge DVD-A has "5.1 Lossless audio mix (24bit 96khz)" so is there a limitation or not?

    However, my Dark Side 5.1 is definitely 24bit/96khz and my car plays it fine (I think my home system does too...can't remember for sure). I thought I had produced it with DVD-Audio Solo, but maybe not.

    So I guess two questions:
    1. Is it odd that my Dark Side 5.1 is 24bit/96khz?
    2. If DVD-Audio Solo won't allow 24bit/96khz, what does?

    Thanks in advance.
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  2. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2001
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    Simple math. DVD-A (and DVD-V) Limit = 9.8Mbps (per active audio stream).

    (Uncompressed/LPCM) 5.1 channels * 24 bits * 96000Hz = 11.2Mbps (too high)
    Lossless-compressed-PCM (aka MLP / Dolby TrueHD) is VBR and not tuneable, but in general is around 2:1 compression. That same 5.1/24/96 = 5.6Mbps (fits nicely).

    Nothing odd about it. You just have to compress to MLP/DolbyTrueHD, or live with less channels, less samplerate or less bit-depth (me, I'd go with the less bit-depth).

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  3. Member
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Simple math. DVD-A (and DVD-V) Limit = 9.8Mbps (per active audio stream).

    (Uncompressed/LPCM) 5.1 channels * 24 bits * 96000Hz = 11.2Mbps (too high)
    Lossless-compressed-PCM (aka MLP / Dolby TrueHD) is VBR and not tuneable, but in general is around 2:1 compression. That same 5.1/24/96 = 5.6Mbps (fits nicely).

    Nothing odd about it. You just have to compress to MLP/DolbyTrueHD, or live with less channels, less samplerate or less bit-depth (me, I'd go with the less bit-depth).

    Scott
    Thanks, Scott.

    So (bear with me, I'm just getting comfortable with this stuff) I assume that suggests the Dark Side 24/96 was compressed in some way and isn't 100% 24/96 in all 6 channels?

    I did the Wish You Were Here at 96/16. It was truly remarkable. Moving, even.
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  4. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    I can't say for sure since I don't have that disc, but my guess is: yes it is compressed in some way (lossless MLP/Dolby TrueHD), but NO it is 100% 24/96 in all 5.1 channels. Depending upon the format, the .1 channel might take up a whole channel's worth of bitrate or might not. Regardless, 24 (bit) * 96000 (Hz) * 6 (ch) / 2 (as in 2:1 compression) = 6912000bits/second, or 6.59Mbps.

    When lossless compression is decompressed, it is returned to its complete, original, pristine, uncompressed LPCM state (IOW, no loss). That's why MLP (and DolbyTrueHD, DTS-HD-MA in BluRay) is so appealing.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  5. Member
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    Okay, I think I'm getting it. I know just enough to be dangerous.

    Thanks again.
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  6. vanished El Heggunte's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Zeppmeister View Post
    So (bear with me, I'm just getting comfortable with this stuff) I assume that suggests the Dark Side 24/96 was compressed in some way and isn't 100% 24/96 in all 6 channels?

    I did the Wish You Were Here at 96/16. It was truly remarkable. Moving, even.
    Yes, it IS 24-bits/96kHz, and yes,
    "for storing 5.1 tracks in 88.2/20, 88.2/24, 96/20 or 96/24, MLP encoding is mandatory."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Audio

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridian_Lossless_Packing

    If you don't have or can't find a 2nd-hand copy of the old Surcode MLP Encoder
    (which apparently has been discontinued ),
    then you'll have to depend on Dolby Media Encoder.

    Also, find an authoring program that supports MLP input, such as DiscWelder Chrome II.
    Last edited by El Heggunte; 21st Aug 2014 at 23:16. Reason: typos, aaaargh
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  7. Member
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    Good advice, thanks for sharing.
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  8. Member
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    Wish I could remember how I burned the Dark Side 24/96, since DVD-Audio Solo won't let me do it (as 24/96). It's one large FLAC and a cue, if that means anything to anyone.

    Maybe it was Nero. Been awhile.
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  9. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    As I mentioned, though, 16/96/5.1 as a distribution medium is still amazingly good (and truthfully, for distribution, 24bit is overkill anyway). In fact, properly dithered 16bit with a playback-environment-appropriate dynamic range is as good as you are going to want/need.

    As a side note, DVD-Audio gives one the ability to provide DIFFERENT levels of PCM quality to different channels within the same stream. So it might be that your 5.1 ch sample clip could be something like 24/96 for the LF & RF, but 20/96 for the CF and 16/96 for the LS and RS. This would give you 9.3Mbps.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  10. Member
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    Originally Posted by Zeppmeister View Post
    Wish I could remember how I burned the Dark Side 24/96, since DVD-Audio Solo won't let me do it (as 24/96). It's one large FLAC and a cue, if that means anything to anyone.

    Maybe it was Nero. Been awhile.
    ImgBurn and Nero can burn from CUE files, but if you really have a FLAC, that's not valid for DVD-Audio.
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  11. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    The FLAC is just a losslessly-compressed version of the LPCM original (however that was formatted). Since ImgBurn decodes on-the-fly, behind-the-scenes, what is getting burned is the same as whatever the FLAC decodes to. Easy way to find out: decode the FLAC to WAV!

    DVD-Audio Solo won't let you use that NOT because it's "24/96" or whatever, but because it's currently a FLAC file and doesn't accept that as a source format (as jman98 mentioned). It doesn't have the libraries to do on-the-fly decoding like ImgBurn does. So you'd need to decode it first. You can always decode the FLAC to WAV and then edit your cue (in a text editor) to use the "MyMusic.WAV" instead of "MyMusic.FLAC" file.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  12. Member
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    DVD-Audio Solo won't let you use that NOT because it's "24/96" or whatever, but because it's currently a FLAC file and doesn't accept that as a source format (as jman98 mentioned). It doesn't have the libraries to do on-the-fly decoding like ImgBurn does. So you'd need to decode it first. You can always decode the FLAC to WAV and then edit your cue (in a text editor) to use the "MyMusic.WAV" instead of "MyMusic.FLAC" file.

    Scott
    I load FLAC files into the DVD-Audio Solo project queue all the time and burn DVD-A that way. Works fine. No prior conversion necessary. User Guide says "Input audio file formats supported: WAV, AIF, MP3, FLAC, WMA including lossless (no
    DRM), M4A/AAC iTunes file."

    Next question:
    I have SurCode, working with MLP. Anyone an expert on the channels extracted using DVD Audio Extractor? Do those channels match up with the SureCore GUI order, like this:
    • Channel 1 is Left Front
    • Channel 2 is Right Front
    • Channel 3 is Center
    • Channel 4 is Sub
    • Channel 5 is Left Rear
    • Channel 6 is Right Rear

    I guess I could listen to the original and identify that way if I had to.

    ??

    Thanks.
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  13. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Looks like they added it since the last time I checked.
    But AFAIK, Flac, WMAlossless, ALAC and any similar lossless codec as input will still get decoded first to standard uncompressed LPCM before being burned. Since MLP is the only DVD-Audio APPROVED lossless compression format, unless a file is loaded in AS MLP, it won't encode TO mlp on the disc.

    Oh...looks like DVD-Audio-Extractor now supports FLAC as input as well (my version must have been OLD). Yeah, flac supporters!

    AFA audio channel assignment, you have a 66% chance of that being the right one (there are 3 options on DVD-Audio and 2 of them match yours), plus that matches the CEA and Dolby specs.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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