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  1. Hi guys,

    I bought a "complete collection" DVD box of a TV series a few days ago.
    To my great irritation, a considerable number of discs show scrathes on the surface.
    This used to be a rare occurrence in the past but, for some reason, it is getting more and more frequent.
    Looks like blindfolded people are used to place the discs into the boxes.
    Anyway, I am in the process of checking the discs and ripping them at the same time.
    Assuming all the discs work fine and I can rip them successfully, could these scratches cause troubles in the future (e.g. if I have to re-rip a disc)?
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  2. Member
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Location: Canada
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    Where did you purchase them from ? How about returning them ? Take some photos and talk to customer service
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  3. I bought them on line.
    The whole returning process really really annoys me.
    Besides I don't have any certainty that the second box won't have the same issues (given the number of discs and that they have been scratched during the packaging process in the factory).
    Do you think I could have troubles in the future even if everything works fine now?
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  4. Member
    Join Date: Sep 2007
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    That's the risk you take buying online from a questionable source. Reputable places tend to have no hassle return policies, or at least better customer service

    You're at a higher risk of troubles in the future with a scratched disc vs. unscratched disc
    Last edited by poisondeathray; 12th Aug 2014 at 12:27.
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  5. I didn't make myself clear.
    I bought the box on a very famous and reliable site and they probably have the best customer service around.
    I don't think I would have any problem if I want to return it.
    The real problem is that, as far as I can tell, the discs were "factory scratched" so it is highly probable that each box has a certain amount of scratched discs.
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  6. Member
    Join Date: Jun 2012
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    Originally Posted by Instant Martian View Post
    it is highly probable that each box has a certain amount of scratched discs.
    If you've convinced yourself there's no point in trying, then you're done.

    You've already ripped the disks, so you're fine for now.
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  7. I have ripped 2/40 discs.
    Besides, I didn't write this before because I wanted to keep the thread simple, but I bought two boxes actually (different series but same manufacturer) and both boxes have scratched discs.
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  8. Member cornemuse's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: 500 miles south of Babylon, in a trailer.
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    If you re-rip one having NOT scratched it any worse, it should rip fine.

    I get my dvds from local libraries. Some (near new) disks are totally trashed. One disk looked like they let their teething baby use the disk to chew on, including lots of dried drool.

    The county library has no charge for anything, a local city library charges $1 for one week, not rental but insurance, (I was told). It seems that when a 'fee' is charged, people take a lot better care of the disks.

    Rinse the scratched disk in cold water, squirt on some liquid dish soap, rub with your open (clean!) hand a few seconds, rinse and rip within 20 - 30 minutes. This usually works for me.

    Supposedly, the soap 'thins' the water & it 'fills' the scratches aiding the cdrom in reading disk.

    Worse comes to worst, I drag out my old (10+ yr old toshiba) laptop which has a cd-rw & dvd-read only cd-rom which reads all dvd's at (it seems) 1 1/2 speed, rips a dvd in 1/2 - 3/4 hour. If it cant read one, it is un-ripable.
    "What was I thinking?"
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  9. If you re-rip one having NOT scratched it any worse, it should rip fine.
    I usually backup all my DVDs when I buy them and never touch the original ones again (unless I have a reason to).

    I don't rent anything or get used stuff or go to libraries because:
    a) if I like something I buy it (when I can, I'm not rich), I like to have the original DVD, box or whatever.
    b) I hate having to deal with dirty/scratched/damaged discs.

    This is why I get very upset when I pay through the nose for new items and get less-than-pristine stuff.
    I mean, one or two discs... it can happen, I'll live with that, 1 disc each 3 or 4... that's another story.
    A story that makes me angry.
    I really don't understand why they are so careless when they handle discs made to be sold.
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  10. I've had discs that were almost nothing but scratches, but they played fine and ripped without a problem (not scratched from new, but scratched over time). I've had a couple of discs which looked pristine, but the drive had serious problems reading them when I tried to rip them, even when they were brand new. Not well pressed, I'd assume.

    I know it's annoying but if the scratches aren't bad and you don't have any problems ripping the discs, I'd probably just live with it. I doubt the scratches could cause the discs to deteriorate over time, unless they were really bad.
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  11. Member
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    If you buy online because that seller in China offers you the set for 30 Euros plus 10 Euros shipping and Amazon Italy wants 70 Euros plus shipping, well, you accept the risk.

    But if the discs are actually pressed and not DVD+/-R discs then they shouldn't get worse than they are now. With consumer burnable discs I'm not willing to say that they won't get worse as the maker may have used low grade Ricoh discs and with time those will probably have problems.
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  12. @hello_hello
    I know, I have had that kind of trouble too (apparently perfect discs not working).
    I doubt the scratches could cause the discs to deteriorate over time
    That's the information I was asking about.
    I think I'll test (i.e. play) all the discs, then decide what to do.

    @jman98
    I don't understand on what basis you are assuming I bought them in China.
    I bought them in Italy and paid more than 100 Euros for one of the two sets alone.
    They are original pressed DVDs, scratches are due to a "low standard" packaging process.
    But if the discs are actually pressed and not DVD+/-R discs then they shouldn't get worse than they are now.
    Again, this is what I wanted to know.
    Thank you.
    Last edited by Instant Martian; 12th Aug 2014 at 18:29.
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  13. Member drjtech's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Instant Martian View Post
    They are original pressed DVDs, scratches are due to a "low standard" packaging process.
    More and more TV box sets are being packaged in cardboard sleeves with little to no protection. Even the Twin Peaks deluxe blu-ray set I recently purchased through Amazon is packaged in cardboard sleeves rather than proper cases. This is not just true of shadowy Internet sellers, shoddy packaging has gone mainstream.
    They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
    --Benjamin Franklin
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  14. Member
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    Originally Posted by drjtech View Post
    More and more TV box sets are being packaged in cardboard sleeves with little to no protection. Even the Twin Peaks deluxe blu-ray set I recently purchased through Amazon is packaged in cardboard sleeves rather than proper cases. This is not just true of shadowy Internet sellers, shoddy packaging has gone mainstream.
    That's rather disheartening. I am interested in that set.
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  15. Member
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    Originally Posted by Instant Martian View Post
    @jman98
    I don't understand on what basis you are assuming I bought them in China.
    I bought them in Italy and paid more than 100 Euros for one of the two sets alone.
    They are original pressed DVDs, scratches are due to a "low standard" packaging process.
    In that case, you have to talk to the seller, as poisondeathray already told you. Since you didn't buy from some shadowy Chinese seller, you have no excuse for being unwilling to talk to the seller.
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  16. Even if you can't be bothered returning them it might be worth sending the seller an email in order to vent a little, and to make them aware of the problem. If enough people complain maybe they'll look into it, if they can.....
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  17. Member drjtech's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    Originally Posted by drjtech View Post
    Even the Twin Peaks deluxe blu-ray set I recently purchased through Amazon is packaged in cardboard sleeves rather than proper cases.
    That's rather disheartening. I am interested in that set.
    The set itself is terrific. Audio/Video quality is excellent, especially considering it's 4:3 television from almost 25 years ago. I pulled each disc out once to rip to HD and then replaced it. Hopefully I won't have pull the discs out again.
    They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
    --Benjamin Franklin
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  18. Originally Posted by drjtech View Post
    More and more TV box sets are being packaged in cardboard sleeves with little to no protection. Even the Twin Peaks deluxe blu-ray set I recently purchased through Amazon is packaged in cardboard sleeves rather than proper cases. This is not just true of shadowy Internet sellers, shoddy packaging has gone mainstream.
    I am aware of that.
    Anyway this is not the case, the DVDs sit in multi-discs amarays (btw, another thing that drives me crazy is when they use those cases with that idiotic retention system that makes it easier to break the disc than to unlock it. In this specific box there is one case like that).
    Out of curiosity, are you talking about this set? Did you get pristine discs?

    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    In that case, you have to talk to the seller, as poisondeathray already told you. Since you didn't buy from some shadowy Chinese seller, you have no excuse for being unwilling to talk to the seller.
    I emailed the seller AND the manufacturer the next day I opened the boxes.
    I got immediate reply from the seller.
    The manufacturer (whom I informed there is something wrong in the packaging process if so many discs get scratched) hasn't been so kind to reply so far.

    @hello_hello:
    I am "unwilling" to return the boxes because (as I already said) I'll probably get scratched discs again (the problem occurs in the factory not (e.g.) during the transport).
    What would I do then? Ask for another replacement?
    If the discs work and get ripped fine I'll keep them. I just wanted to know if scratched discs can deteriorate over time.
    Last edited by Instant Martian; 14th Aug 2014 at 13:28.
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  19. Member drjtech's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Instant Martian View Post
    Out of curiosity, are you talking about this set? Did you get pristine discs?
    Yes, that is the set. Blu-ray is more scratch resistant than DVD, so the discs were pristine. I don't think I would want to be removing and replacing them in the cardboard sleeves very often.
    They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
    --Benjamin Franklin
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  20. I've never seen this series (I know it by name of course).

    I read the set has/had audio sync issues too.
    Sure it's a shame to use cheap cardboard sleeves for something sold at almost $100.
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  21. Just for the love of completeness, these DVDs are manufactured and imported from UK.
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  22. Again, for the love of completeness, I got an apology mail from the manufacturer.
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  23. I don't think it should be a problem if the scratches are not too serious. DVD's have a way more robust error correction than something like a CD does.
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  24. I am checking the discs and noticed one bizarre thing:
    despite the fact that both series are advertised as R2 PAL they are NTSC (region code isn't specified anywhere).
    I knew they were NTSC but here it comes the odd thing:
    - one series is regular 720x480 29.970fps
    - one series is 720x480 23.976fps
    Is this possible?

    P.S.: hi hogger.
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  25. Originally Posted by Instant Martian View Post
    I am checking the discs and noticed one bizarre thing:
    despite the fact that both series are advertised as R2 PAL they are NTSC (region code isn't specified anywhere).
    I came across something similar recently. My sister bought the DVD set of a series from a local retailer (bricks and mortar). I think it'd be reasonable to assume they'd be PAL give it's a PAL country, but they turned out to be NTSC with no region code. They probably weren't advertised as PAL as such though.
    I prefer PAL due to the higher resolution. If they were advertised as PAL that'd be reasonable grounds for returning them if you wanted to.

    Originally Posted by Instant Martian View Post
    I knew they were NTSC but here it comes the odd thing:
    - one series is regular 720x480 29.970fps
    - one series is 720x480 23.976fps
    Is this possible?
    How did you establish the frame rates? All NTSC DVDs are technically 29.970fps, but they can contain 23.976fps video where some fields are repeated to increase the frame rate to 29.970fps. It's called 3:2 pulldown. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down
    Alternatively the video can be 23.976fps, and pulldown "flags" are used, which tell the player to apply the pulldown itself on playback.
    Ideally if you re-encoded the video and it was 29.970fps with pulldown, you'd remove the repeated fields during the process and output 23.976 progressive video.

    It'd wouldn't be unheard of for a series of a TV show to be released on DVD using one method, and a different series with another. In fact it wouldn't even be particularly unusual, especially if the DVDs were manufactured at different times.

    29.970 NTSC can also be interlaced, just as 25fps PAL can be interlaced or progressive.

    The reason they can get away with selling NTSC DVDs in PAL countries is pretty much all PAL DVD players can play NTSC discs. I don't know why it's done though. Maybe it's simply because they didn't manufacture enough PAL discs to keep up with demand.
    Last edited by hello_hello; 26th Aug 2014 at 15:13.
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  26. I prefer PAL too, both for higher resolution and the absence of that jerky movement typical of NTSC video.
    Both series are advertised (on the e-shop I bought them from and on the manufacturer's site) as R2 PAL but I knew they probably were NTSC before I purchased them (I had done my homework). I bought them anyway since this is the only edition available in Europe (I think they just didn't bother to release a proper R2 PAL version and "repacked" the R1 NTSC discs).
    When I got the discs the first thing I did was to look for the Region Code logo. To my great surprise it wasn't any (first time it happens to me), so I put one disc in my DVD drive and checked it with MediaInfo: as expected it was NTSC (29.970fps).
    I forgot about the other series.
    Today I tested a disc from series #2 and MediaInfo gave me that output (23.976fps).
    This is the first time I see such a thing: in my experience they usually are 23.976 (and flagged to reach 29.970 during playback).
    Both series are from the same manufacturer and (very probably) manufactured at the same time (or very close).
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  27. MediaInfo doesn't always get it right. I can't say I've used it to check DVD video much but it can be a mixture.... the main video may be progressive while the DVD extras are interlaced or some of it has 3:2 pulldown etc. I don't know how MediaInfo checks DVDs for frame rates.
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  28. Member
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    maybe like an example variable bit rates, the bit rates keep changing in between, so dont know whether frame rate can keep changing in between movie files. Maybe files were authored in different times and sources.

    as for scratching yes, it will create problem, and my HP cd writer 8200 (external) read every scratched CD religiously. Yet to find a good DVD writer which is something rare in todays unreliable world which can read any and every scratched CD and DVD.
    Video makes you a baby, you always keep learning until you find yourself in the graveyard.
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  29. TDMore Software Developer johnsonchang's Avatar
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    usually, little scratching is not a problem for the discs. Just try to rip them into videos and put them on your computer.
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  30. @hello_hello
    So how do I check framerate?

    @technogeek
    I've never heard of variable framerate and it seems logic to me that framerate remains constant within a given video.

    I am watching and ripping the discs, I started from the more scratched ones. So far so good.

    @johnsonchang
    Even if the discs work I am still irritated (let's say for aesthetical reasons). Of course I will be more irritated if they don't work.
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