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  1. Member
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    Anyone know of a circuit to build a VGA to HD component video adapter? A friend was given an older rear projection HDTV with only composite and component inputs (and NTSC tuner). He'd like to get the best picture possible connecting a PC to the component input.

    Right now it's hooked up on the composite, which of course is awful. The PC's card has VGA, S-video and composite out.

    Are there any AGP cards that directly output component? Could obtain a box with PCIe x16 if there's a decently priced card with component out.
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    Originally Posted by bizzybody View Post
    Are there any AGP cards that directly output component? Could obtain a box with PCIe x16 if there's a decently priced card with component out.
    Such AGP video cards cards were made up until a few years ago. Rather than having RCA component on the card itself, they came with an adapter cable for component video, which plugged into a mini-din port on the card. New ones are scarce now, and you might have to look for a used card on ebay to get a reasonable price. One with the original adapter would be preferable, because the pin-out varies.

    PCI-e cards with component out are hard to find too. Here is one example with the adapter cable.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129091&cm_re=video_card_tv_ou...-091-_-Product
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  3. Before you go buying anything check the maximum resolution on that TV, if the component input can't handle higher resolution than the composite one you might be better off looking for a better quality composite cable.

    Best you can get on a video card composite output is 800x600, but many cards only did 640x480; note the 4:3 AR. On a widescreen TV you will get a stretched picture or black bars on either sides of a correct AR picture.
    Last edited by nic2k4; 10th Aug 2014 at 20:53.
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  4. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Just buy a vga to component cable,google it.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  5. A VGA to component cable won't work unless the graphics card can put out component video at the VGA port. Very few can do that. Almost all the sellers of such cables have small print in their ads telling you to be sure the cable is suitable for your computer. And they know you're not going to bother shipping a $10 cable back to them and asking for a refund. Here's an example:

    http://www.amazon.com/Fosmon-Component-Video-Monitor-Projector/dp/B00579ETMY/

    As unusually_quite pointed out, most graphics cards that can output component video have a ~7 pin mini DIN connector (looks like an s-video connector but with more pins). And the pinout vary from card to card so be sure to get the pigtail cable that's made for the card.

    • this is not a video converter, it is only a cable to transfer existing signals
    • this will NOT convert a VGA signal output from a PC/laptop into Component (RGB) for a TV/monitor/projector
    Converting VGA to component can't be done with a cable or a simple circuit. It basically requires digitizing the VGA signal, maybe a scan rate and frame size conversion, then rendering the digital frames to analog component. An example of a VGA to component video scan converter (this is not a recommendation):

    http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011407&p_id=8668
    Last edited by jagabo; 10th Aug 2014 at 21:44.
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    I've found some circuits using various microchips that will go from VGA to standard definition, probably at best 800x600, but they require the video card to be able to run at TV scan rates/resolution.

    If there's one that can convert to 720P, that would be good enough.
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  7. At first try to use madVR in YPbPr mode http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1604480#post1604480

    "Create an empty file with the name "YCbCr" in the madVR folder..."

    HW http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=36782

    btw

    Select 720p mode on graphic card - new cards can output those modes without problems - you don't need any HW converter to perform picture resizing.

    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Converting VGA to component can't be done with a cable or a simple circuit. It basically requires digitizing the VGA signal, maybe a scan rate and frame size conversion, then rendering the digital frames to analog component. An example of a VGA to component video scan converter (this is not a recommendation):
    AMD and NVidia drivers support all standard TV resolution natively - there is no need to do conversion in hardware - simple color space conversion can be performed (or in case of madVR even in software without external HW required).
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  8. Obviously, if you can convince your graphics card to output component video with standard TV timing that's the best. All current graphics chips have the ability, even if their drivers don't support it.
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  9. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Obviously, if you can convince your graphics card to output component video with standard TV timing that's the best. All current graphics chips have the ability, even if their drivers don't support it.
    So as for today i can say that most popular graphics chip vendors (AMD, NVidia, Intel) provide support to native HDTV resolution's on HDMI and on VGA outputs. Only one thing that need to be address is color space conversion (RGB to YPbPr) but his can be done or in hardware (by analog circuitry) or by software (as madVR renderer have possibility to output YPbPr as RGB or rather RGB as YPbPr trough RGB VGA - levels are same in both cases thus it is up to TV to interpret correct color space - at RGB display such YPbPr will be odd looking pinkish video).
    Correct cable (best will be to select also Sync on Green if possible in graphics card driver settings) is required.
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  10. Don't forget he's using an AGP card. So it's not a modern graphics chipset. A PCIe card with component out is the easiest solution.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129091
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    ...and if he has a motherboard with an AGP slot, he does not have a modern CPU either. Unfortunately I forgot to log in before reading this thread and had to see another harebrained pandy idea involving madvr.
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  12. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Don't forget he's using an AGP card. So it's not a modern graphics chipset. A PCIe card with component out is the easiest solution.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129091
    This is software problems - with decent drivers (i assume around 5 years old so even AMD should support this) he should be fine.
    HW is not a problem as most of this kind features should possible even on VGA (if only proper pixelclock source will be available - PLL programmable clock sources are available from 10 - 15 years). NVidia support manual video mode from at least 10 years (so compliant video mode can be created and set manually - parameters are specified and available without problems for example listing on Tektronix https://wiki.millersville.edu/download/attachments/37946381/25W_14700_0A.pdf?version=1...=1394462562335

    Key is cable but i would say that this low risk DIY .

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    ...and if he has a motherboard with an AGP slot, he does not have a modern CPU either. Unfortunately I forgot to log in before reading this thread and had to see another harebrained pandy idea involving madvr.
    madVR works fine even on old CPU... but this require minimal knowledge and this is not your strongest area for sure...
    Last edited by pandy; 11th Aug 2014 at 12:39.
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    @bizzybody Just ignore any and all advice from pandy. He has no clue regarding what ordinary people like your friend will be able to manage on their own, and no actual intent to help you. He is here mainly to show off, and steer this thread in a direction that interests him. Just start asking him questions about madvr and the settings to use on an old, low spec PC like your friend has, and you'll find out how unhelpful he is.

    [Edit] I'm not finding many HDTV-out AGP cards complete with their component adapter cables on ebay. This is the best prospect I have found so far, although I suggest that you look at it carefully before ordering since you know your friend's system details and we don't:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-Radeon-X1300-Pro-256MB-DDR2-AGP-8x-4x-PCI-e-Video-Graphics...-/251613795321

    The listing says it is new in box with its HDTV out cable, and is certified for Windows Vista. However, although it is new in box, it is still likely 7-8 years old.

    In case they are needed AMD's recommended Windows 7 and Vista drivers for X-series legacy video graphics adapters are here: http://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop/legacy?product=Legacy1&os=Windows%207%20-%2032

    Here is another listing for the same card new in box: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SEALED-ATI-Radeon-X1300-Pro-256MB-DDR2-AGP-8x-4x-PCI-e-Vid...-/371117784929
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 11th Aug 2014 at 16:17. Reason: added AGP card and driver link
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  14. I'm pretty sure most of the older ATI AIW AGP cards had this capability, there was a VGA adapter dongle you had to purchase for the specific cards. Some Nvidia had similar adapter, to the aforementioned mini-din plug, I actually have one but no idea what card it mated to.

    Never seen a video card with component-out mounted on it, always required an additional piece of hardware. The NVidia was frequently packaged with the card, SFAIK the ATI adapter was never included. Not sure if the NVidia was specific to the particular card, I do know the ATI vga adapters were definitely advertised as requiring different adapters for different cards.

    Have never personally tried either one.
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    Originally Posted by Nelson37 View Post
    I'm pretty sure most of the older ATI AIW AGP cards had this capability, there was a VGA adapter dongle you had to purchase for the specific cards. Some Nvidia had similar adapter, to the aforementioned mini-din plug, I actually have one but no idea what card it mated to.

    Never seen a video card with component-out mounted on it, always required an additional piece of hardware. The NVidia was frequently packaged with the card, SFAIK the ATI adapter was never included. Not sure if the NVidia was specific to the particular card, I do know the ATI vga adapters were definitely advertised as requiring different adapters for different cards.

    Have never personally tried either one.
    I don't recall the cards with the VGA to component adapters, although I have seen the adapters themselves. I definitely remember some ATI cards with component video adapters for mini-DIN ports that had 9 pin holes and some for ports with 7 pin holes, and the same with NVIDIA. See http://pinouts.ru/Video/ for details. The existence of so many different adapters is the reason why it I recommended getting a card with its original adapter instead of trying to find the right one after purchase. As I recall most video cards with TV-out that were released after HDMI became popular did not include a component adapter. It had to be requested from the maker.

    I saw some ATI AIW AGP cards today while looking around on ebay. Although they may be great for SD video capture on an XP system (if you can coax them into working) as I recall the AIW AGP cards did not have video capture drivers available that worked beyond XP, so I thought it might be best to suggest something else.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 11th Aug 2014 at 20:31.
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  16. Originally Posted by bizzybody View Post
    I've found some circuits using various microchips that will go from VGA to standard definition, probably at best 800x600, but they require the video card to be able to run at TV scan rates/resolution.

    If there's one that can convert to 720P, that would be good enough.
    Schematics or/with PCB layout? IMO, unless you have some form of PCB photo etching capability you'll find that the board design to work with those microchips isn't well suited to the hobbyist tool set. Besides, Jagabo's suggestion is cheap and easy enough why go through all the trouble (some gifts are more trouble than they're worth)? Anyway, you haven't said what are the component input capabilities on the TV.

    And what about the PC; CPU, video card, OS and memory? Any suggestion using software need to keep that in mind. The best AGP board/CPU setup you could have is an Athlon64 X2 5600+ on a VIA K8T/M800 chipset, more commonly we're looking at a single core AhtlonXP, Sempron, Celeron or P4, none of which can afford to lose CPU cycles if you plan on watching DVD's or watching video online while running an antivirus.

    And there is no mention on how you're supposed to hook the TV up to the video card (WTF)! At this point you have to suppose making some kind of cable; I've been known for going out of my way to hack stuff, but lets not re-invent the wheel. Monoprice has a cheap DVI to component adapter for ATI cards. There's a list of compatible cards at the bottom of the page and there's reports of it working with HD3XXX series cards (actually it looks just like the one that was supplied with the cards). I wouldn't be surprised if it works with all ATI branded cards (probably Sapphire too) and your mileage may vary with other brands. BTW, the last AGP chipset available for ATI is HD4670, the last ATI All-in-Wonder is the AIW X800XT. It does need to be a TV out card; it would have the additional Theater chipset. Nvidia also has TV out capable cards, but ATI's have the best hardware converter.

    I know for a fact that the HD series cards have HDTV resolution settings up to 1080p 60Hz, can't remember for the older chipsets, but all you need is a resolution close to the TV equivalent i.e. 1280X768 60Hz for 16:9 720p or 1024X768 60Hz for 4:3 720p. You can get a card cheap on ebay, the adapter is cheap, everything works together and hardware conversion is always better. Still, it's more trouble than Jagabo's video converter, but if by any chance the PC already has a compatible ATI card...

    Just a note on AMD's (ATI) legacy Catalyst driver package, it's only compatible with cards that followed the ATI base card design; the driver might not recognize some cards (XFX). In that case all you need to do is edit the driver INF file and add the PCI vendor ID for your card.
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  17. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    @bizzybody Just ignore any and all advice from pandy. He has no clue regarding what ordinary people like your friend will be able to manage on their own, and no actual intent to help you. He is here mainly to show off, and steer this thread in a direction that interests him. Just start asking him questions about madvr and the settings to use on an old, low spec PC like your friend has, and you'll find out how unhelpful he is.
    I think that you perfectly fit to all jokes about average US citizen IQ and education level. EOT

    madVR with turned off high quality processing is not significantly slower than other renderer's and only madVR offer capability to output YPbPr over RGB i.e. it make possible to connect any RGB card to YPbPr display input.

    VGA to BNC cable (cost few $ ) is sufficient to use such configuration (Sync on Green should be active on graphics card driver settings) to connect any VGA compatible card to any YPbPr display.
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  18. I actually took the time to check the requirements on that program and I can see that it wouldn't require much CPU power, all the work is done by the GPU. As I said it's too bad we have no details on the PC, the top requirement is at least a DX9 compatible video card. In the case of ATI, that means at least an R300 card and for Nvidia a GeForce FX 5xxx series card. I would also expect better results from a higher performance GPU. If that still means buying a video card, going the software renderer way has no benefit.

    BTW, our OP friend lives in the USA, component TV connections use an RCA connector not BNC; he would have to procure BNC female to RCA male adapters.
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  19. Originally Posted by nic2k4 View Post
    I actually took the time to check the requirements on that program and I can see that it wouldn't require much CPU power, all the work is done by the GPU. As I said it's too bad we have no details on the PC, the top requirement is at least a DX9 compatible video card. In the case of ATI, that means at least an R300 card and for Nvidia a GeForce FX 5xxx series card. I would also expect better results from a higher performance GPU. If that still means buying a video card, going the software renderer way has no benefit.
    My point was to use software when OP already have some HW. And madVR can be slow when HQ settings are active but when HQ settings are NOT used then it is not particularly slow. madVR feature is to skip last color space conversion and output YCbCr data as RGB data where DAC on graphics board convert those data to YPbPr signal thus ANY card can be used to produce YPbPr signal graphics card is not even aware that this is something else than RGB.


    Originally Posted by nic2k4 View Post
    BTW, our OP friend lives in the USA, component TV connections use an RCA connector not BNC; he would have to procure BNC female to RCA male adapters.
    Sorry but it was obvious to me that VGA to BNC cables are common and available on market then BNC to RCA converter need to be used but i hope this is not a problem for anyone.

    However if from some reason madVR can't be used (and reason is not important) there is always possibility to buy analog color space converter that convert RGB from VGA to YPbPr signal - there is no scan rate conversion, no additional processing etc.
    Such converters are frequently used by people that want to use on modern TV (usually equipped with YPbPr input) an older electronics equipment (such as games consoles etc).

    Side to HW selection, graphic video mode must be HD TV compatible (but i've mentioned that nowadays this is not a problem as Intel, NVidia and AMD offer such video modes - sometimes in advanced part sometimes with normal PC modes).

    It is up to OP to select most convenient method to connect display.

    Easiest solution is to use DVI output on graphic card and HDMI/DVI input in TV (with proper cable or adapter) - with a bit of luck even video mode should be selected automatically.
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  20. Member
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    Originally Posted by nic2k4 View Post
    I actually took the time to check the requirements on that program and I can see that it wouldn't require much CPU power, all the work is done by the GPU. As I said it's too bad we have no details on the PC, the top requirement is at least a DX9 compatible video card. In the case of ATI, that means at least an R300 card and for Nvidia a GeForce FX 5xxx series card. I would also expect better results from a higher performance GPU. If that still means buying a video card, going the software renderer way has no benefit.

    BTW, our OP friend lives in the USA, component TV connections use an RCA connector not BNC; he would have to procure BNC female to RCA male adapters.
    madvr can't be used with all software players. Media Player Classic Home Cinema is one that is often recommended for use with it, although I know of a couple of others that supposedly work. However, OP's friend may prefer using VLC, or Windows Media Center or Windows Media Player, or another player which can't use madvr. ...and if the OP's friend wants to use his TV as a monitor how much good will madvr do him? The OP asked about a VGA to component circuit design capable of delivering 720p, so I'm guessing the TV is at least 720p and might work as a monitor at that resolution.
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    So if the card is compatible with madvr it will only need a VGA to 3 RCA component cable?

    I'll have to get the make and model of the TV to look up what resolutions it supports. It is widescreen and the picture from the composite input at 640x480 or 800x600 is just as shite as it was on the old 25" CRT he had before.

    Prior to that TV he had a nice Sanyo 32" CRT (that I'd sold him for $50 a few years back). The picture was pretty decent on its S-video in, until it went *poof* and someone gave him an ancient last of the cabinet style 25" stereo TVs. I told him it must be a gold TV because the 2 digit red LED display was AU with the composite input in use.

    His house is where TVs go to die.

    Edit: He's up late... Pioneer Elite PRO-720HD/KUXC/CA

    I find various hits on the PRO-720HD claiming different inputs, one says it has 4 S-video and a VGA in. C-Net's old page on it says composite, S-video and component. I looked at it once and saw only composite and component and the antenna connection. Could be Pioneer made these with a variety of input combinations, but due to the age they never had digital inputs.
    Last edited by bizzybody; 13th Aug 2014 at 03:09.
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  22. Originally Posted by bizzybody View Post
    So if the card is compatible with madvr it will only need a VGA to 3 RCA component cable?
    There is high chance for this (unless of course he is not able to use mediaplayer supporting madvr - pointed fairly by usually_quiet)

    Originally Posted by bizzybody View Post
    Edit: He's up late... Pioneer Elite PRO-720HD/KUXC/CA

    I find various hits on the PRO-720HD claiming different inputs, one says it has 4 S-video and a VGA in. C-Net's old page on it says composite, S-video and component. I looked at it once and saw only composite and component and the antenna connection. Could be Pioneer made these with a variety of input combinations, but due to the age they never had digital inputs.
    Help us and make picture (good one) of the input panel.

    HW circuit to make is relatively simple http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=49874 - you can search for it on various forums related to old game consoles (game machines) - this circuitry is frequently used to connect RGB output to YPBPr input.
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    Originally Posted by bizzybody View Post

    Edit: He's up late... Pioneer Elite PRO-720HD/KUXC/CA

    I find various hits on the PRO-720HD claiming different inputs, one says it has 4 S-video and a VGA in. C-Net's old page on it says composite, S-video and component. I looked at it once and saw only composite and component and the antenna connection. Could be Pioneer made these with a variety of input combinations, but due to the age they never had digital inputs.
    The Pioneer Elite PRO-720HD was a very high-end rear projection TV in its day, but needed professional calibration for best performance. It is supposed to support two native resolutions, 1080i and 480p. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/63-rear-projection-units/590515-64-pioneer-elite-pro-720...ml#post6345920 720p and 480i input would be scaled by the TV.

    From Pioneer's support

    Features and specifications of PRO-720HD.

    Performance Features:

    Reference Theater Mode
    Pioneer Automatic Format Converter(AFC)
    Dual Scan Capability Automatically Detects Input Format (15.75, 31.5 and 33.75kHz) and displays at 31.5 or 33.75kHz
    Converts Interlaced NTSC 15.75kHz(480i) to 31.5kHz(480P) progressive display
    Pure Cinema II for quick 2/3 pull down film detection
    Dual 181 Channel NTSC Tuners with Automatic Preset
    3 Dimensional Y/C Separation
    72 Point Digital Convergence
    7" Inverted HD Large Emitter CRT's
    0.52mm Ultra-Fine Pitch Lenticular Screen
    New 4 Element Lens System
    First Surface Mirror
    High Contrast Black Cabinet
    High Contrast Optical Lens Couplers
    Triple Dynamic Focus Circuit
    Chromatically Pure Red and Green Lens
    Adjustable Scan Velocity Modulation
    New Tinted Protective Screen
    Room Light Sensor (RLS)
    Audio: 10W + 10W Audio Power& 6 1/4" speakers
    Convenience Features:
    Urushi Finish
    5 NTSC Display Mode: Natural Wide, Cinema Wide, Zoom, Normal (4:3), and Full (16:9)
    5 Screen Modes for Progressive Scan DVD
    Twin Picture
    Picture out of Picture
    Multi-Picture Channel Scan (3 or 9 Pictures)
    Station Labeling
    Auto Flesh Tone Circuit
    5 Step Selectable Color Temperature with 6500 degree K
    Illuminated Preset and Smart Remote Control
    Custom Ready Cabinet: removable kick panel
    Remote Signals are received through the screen

    Inputs/Outputs:
    3 Progressive Scan Inputs: D-Sub 15 Inputs, 2 Component Inputs
    2 S- Video Inputs, (1 front)
    Antenna x 2
    3 Composite Inputs, (1 front)
    1 AV Monitor Output

    Pioneer "SR" System control out
    [Edit]I did some more looking around with a search engine. Finding information on such an old TV takes some effort as many of the links I found are to pages that no longer exist. I eventually found this: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/125742-faroudja-nrs-pro-720hd-540p-720p.html Based on what the participants in that thread say, it appears likely that this TV supports 1080i, 540p, 480p, and of course 480i input, but not 720p input.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 15th Aug 2014 at 15:27. Reason: added more info
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