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  1. I'm trying to send a film I made to discmakers.com, so they can make around 25 DVDs for me. They told me I need to send them the TS_Video and TS_Audio files, which I can create in Toast. I have Toast 11 Titanium 11.0.2. I drag my .mov file to Toast with quality on "Best" Destination: Disc Image. Once it is done, it creates a .Toast file. When I open the toast file with disc utility, there are 6 files in the Video_TS folder, only one of which is my movie, "VTS_01_1.VOB" The problem I'm facing is that the quality on the new file is terrible compared to the original mp4, and it seems that the image is also smaller. Is there a way I can fix this, or another program I can use? Also, the TS_Audio folder is empty, which I've been told is fine.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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  2. Originally Posted by MementoMori View Post
    I'm trying to send a film I made to discmakers.com, so they can make around 25 DVDs for me. They told me I need to send them the TS_Video and TS_Audio files, which I can create in Toast. I have Toast 11 Titanium 11.0.2. I drag my .mov file to Toast with quality on "Best" Destination: Disc Image. Once it is done, it creates a .Toast file. When I open the toast file with disc utility, there are 6 files in the Video_TS folder, only one of which is my movie, "VTS_01_1.VOB" The problem I'm facing is that the quality on the new file is terrible compared to the original mp4, and it seems that the image is also smaller. Is there a way I can fix this, or another program I can use? Also, the TS_Audio folder is empty, which I've been told is fine.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.


    How long is your film ? (running time duration? )

    Regular DVD's (as in DVD-video) are standard definition only, so if your original MP4 or MOV was an HD source, it's going to look worse on a DVD

    Video_TS is the only one actually used, the other folder is supposed to be empty
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  3. You want to send discmakers a properly authored DVD. Use toast to burn a copy of your authored disc to high quality media and send that disc to discmakers. Test it on a standalone player before sending it. "VTS_01_1.VOB" is NOT your movie, it is PART of a DVD.

    FWIW, I've always had excellent results with them using the method described above. (Though I use Encore to author and imgburn to burn.)
    Last edited by smrpix; 7th Aug 2014 at 17:55.
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  4. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Originally Posted by MementoMori View Post
    I'm trying to send a film I made to discmakers.com, so they can make around 25 DVDs for me. They told me I need to send them the TS_Video and TS_Audio files, which I can create in Toast. I have Toast 11 Titanium 11.0.2. I drag my .mov file to Toast with quality on "Best" Destination: Disc Image. Once it is done, it creates a .Toast file. When I open the toast file with disc utility, there are 6 files in the Video_TS folder, only one of which is my movie, "VTS_01_1.VOB" The problem I'm facing is that the quality on the new file is terrible compared to the original mp4, and it seems that the image is also smaller. Is there a way I can fix this, or another program I can use? Also, the TS_Audio folder is empty, which I've been told is fine.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.


    How long is your film ? (running time duration? )

    Regular DVD's (as in DVD-video) are standard definition only, so if your original MP4 or MOV was an HD source, it's going to look worse on a DVD

    Video_TS is the only one actually used, the other folder is supposed to be empty
    It's around 18 min long
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  5. Originally Posted by smrpix View Post
    You want to send discmakers a properly authored DVD. Use toast to burn a copy of your authored disc to high quality media and send that disc to discmakers. Test it on a standalone player before sending it. "VTS_01_1.VOB" is NOT your movie, it is PART of a DVD.

    FWIW, I've always had excellent results with them using the method described above. (Though I use Encore to author and imgburn to burn.)
    My DVD drive is broken, so I can't burn a DVD. They said I could send them the TS_VIDEO file and they would do it for me.
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  6. Is toast using the maximum legal bitrate for DVD? That will help to minimize the quality losses

    What does mediainfo (view=>text) say about the "VTS_01_1.VOB" ?

    Also check what it says for the orignal file, copy & paste both results back here
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  7. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Is toast using the maximum legal bitrate for DVD? That will help to minimize the quality losses

    What does mediainfo (view=>text) say about the "VTS_01_1.VOB" ?

    Also check what it says for the orignal file, copy & paste both results back here
    How do I know if Toast is using the max? I set the quality to "Best"...

    I don't have Mediainfo. Is there another way I can get the information?
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  8. mediainfo is free , at least the one not from the mac app store

    mac version
    http://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo/Download/Mac_OS
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  9. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    mediainfo is free , at least the one not from the mac app store

    mac version
    http://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo/Download/Mac_OS
    The Original .Toast File:

    General
    Complete name : /Volumes/LaCie 1TB/BITB DVD New/Beauty in the Breakdown.toast
    Format : MPEG Video
    Format version : Version 2
    File size : 1.03 GiB
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable

    Video
    Format : MPEG Video
    Format version : Version 2
    Format profile : Main@Main
    Format settings, BVOP : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix : Default
    Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Width : 720 pixels
    Height : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 29.970 fps
    Standard : NTSC
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Compression mode : Lossy

    The VTS_01_1.VOB File:

    General
    Complete name : /Volumes/Beauty in the Breakdown/VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_1.VOB
    Format : MPEG-PS
    File size : 909 MiB
    Duration : 17mn 38s
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable
    Overall bit rate : 7 203 Kbps

    Video
    ID : 224 (0xE0)
    Format : MPEG Video
    Format version : Version 2
    Format profile : Main@Main
    Format settings, BVOP : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix : Default
    Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
    Duration : 17mn 38s
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 6 867 Kbps
    Maximum bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
    Width : 720 pixels
    Height : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 29.970 fps
    Standard : NTSC
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Interlaced
    Scan order : Bottom Field First
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.663
    Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
    Time code source : Group of pictures header
    Stream size : 866 MiB (95%)

    Audio
    ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
    Format : AC-3
    Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
    Mode extension : CM (complete main)
    Format settings, Endianness : Big
    Muxing mode : DVD-Video
    Duration : 17mn 38s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 192 Kbps
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Channel positions : Front: L R
    Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
    Bit depth : 16 bits
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Stream size : 24.2 MiB (3%)

    Menu
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  10. Bit rate : 6 867 Kbps
    Maximum bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
    Im more of a PC user, and don't really use toast, but it's not using the maximum bitrate allowed for DVD on your current settings . 9800kbps is allowed but most people choose a bit lower, maybe 9000kbps for safety. Eitherway , you can squeeze a bit more quality out if it with a slightly higher bitrate



    Also was this a theatrical film or digitial film equivalent, shot 24p ?

    Where is the mediainfo for the original, original video ? (The MP4 or MOV before toast)
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  11. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post

    Bit rate : 6 867 Kbps
    Maximum bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
    Im more of a PC user, and don't really use toast, but it's not using the maximum bitrate allowed for DVD on your current settings . 9800kbps is allowed but most people choose a bit lower, maybe 9000kbps for safety. Eitherway , you can squeeze a bit more quality out if it with a slightly higher bitrate



    Also was this a theatrical film or digitial film equivalent, shot 24p ?

    Where is the mediainfo for the original, original video ? (The MP4 or MOV before toast)
    Oh, Sorry. Here's the info for the original .mov

    General
    Complete name : /Volumes/LaCie 1TB/Beauty in the Breakdown Final Cut.mov
    Format : MPEG-4
    Format profile : QuickTime
    Codec ID : qt
    File size : 13.3 GiB
    Duration : 17mn 38s
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable
    Overall bit rate : 108 Mbps
    Encoded date : UTC 2014-04-23 11:31:45
    Tagged date : UTC 2014-04-23 17:32:00
    Writing library : aapl
    ©TIM : 00:00:00:00
    ©TSC : 24000
    ©TSZ : 1001

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : ProRes
    Format version : Version 0
    Codec ID : apcn
    Duration : 17mn 38s
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 107 Mbps
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 23.976 fps
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.144
    Stream size : 13.1 GiB (99%)
    Writing library : Apple
    Language : English
    Encoded date : UTC 2014-04-23 11:31:45
    Tagged date : UTC 2014-04-23 11:31:45
    Color primaries : BT.709
    Transfer characteristics : BT.709
    Matrix coefficients : BT.709

    Audio
    ID : 2
    Format : PCM
    Format settings, Endianness : Little
    Format settings, Sign : Signed
    Codec ID : sowt
    Duration : 17mn 38s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Channel positions : Front: L R
    Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
    Bit depth : 16 bits
    Stream size : 194 MiB (1%)
    Language : English
    Encoded date : UTC 2014-04-23 11:31:45
    Tagged date : UTC 2014-04-23 11:31:45

    Other
    ID : 3
    Type : Time code
    Format : QuickTime TC
    Duration : 17mn 38s
    Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
    Time code settings : Striped
    Language : English
    Encoded date : UTC 2014-04-23 11:31:45
    Tagged date : UTC 2014-04-23 11:31:45
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  12. Yes, well prores 1920x1080 10bit 422 source. The fact is the DVD is NEVER going to be remotely close in quality. You need blu-ray to get similar quality, at least the same resolution


    The other point I was trying to make was this is a 23.976 ("24p") source, so it should be done using soft pulldown, encoded progressive. That's the way Hollywood does it. The way toast is doing it is encoding interlaced with 25% more repeat fields (that's effectively an additional 25% bitrate wasted)

    Will they accept your prores source directly ? I haven't used them, but it's worth asking. There is a higher chance they'll do it right compared to toast which for sure doesn't do it optimally
    Last edited by poisondeathray; 8th Aug 2014 at 00:49.
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  13. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Yes, well prores 1920x1080 10bit 422 source. The fact is the DVD is NEVER going to be remotely close in quality. You need blu-ray to get similar quality, at least the same resolution


    The other point I was trying to make was this is a 23.976 ("24p") source, so it should be done using soft pulldown, encoded progressive. That's the way Hollywood does it. The way toast is doing it is encoding interlaced with 25% more repeat fields (that's an additional 25% bitrate wasted)
    Okay, so what's the best way I can convert the original .mov file to a TS_Video file for BluRay? I don't even think Toast has a BluRay option. It's either DVD or High Definition DVD as far as I can tell.
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  14. I just made an edit - see above. Check to see if they will accept your prores source directly . Some places do.

    or is there a list somewhere on their webpage that details what they will accept ?
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  15. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    I just made an edit - see above. Check to see if they will accept your prores source directly . Some places do.

    or is there a list somewhere on their webpage that details what they will accept ?
    They can take my original .mov file, but then it will cost me an extra $200 for them to do the extra work. That's why they told me to send a TS_Video file. If you know if another program I can use besides toast that will give me the best quality, I'm up for that as well. BluRay does make more sense also.
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  16. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Yeah, for an 18min-only clip, you could easily have done a, say, ~9200kbps CBR or 9000kbps AVG+9600kbps MAX VBR encoding.

    And Toast's encoder has always been pretty mediocre. If you don't already have Compressor available, I'd suggest trying out ffmpegX.

    Also, IIWY, I would create not just the VIDEO_TS folder structure, but a whole actual ISO disc image. I'm confident Discmakers can accept that format (even though they don't specifically mention it). Most preferable would have been a DDP image file, but Toast doesn't do those (only DVDStudioPro & Encore, for Macs).

    Scott
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  17. Originally Posted by MementoMori View Post
    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    I just made an edit - see above. Check to see if they will accept your prores source directly . Some places do.

    or is there a list somewhere on their webpage that details what they will accept ?
    They can take my original .mov file, but then it will cost me an extra $200 for them to do the extra work. That's why they told me to send a TS_Video file. If you know if another program I can use besides toast that will give me the best quality, I'm up for that as well. BluRay does make more sense also.
    Right, the extra fee

    But won't they charge you extra for sending the a blu-ray as well? (since you're doing a short run of DVD's not BD's, so they'll have to re-encode it, re-author it = more work)

    I don' t know precisely how to do this on a Mac, but for certain those are 2 areas that will help improve quality for a DVD 1) higher bitrate , at least closer to the maximum allowed 2) progressive encoding with 3:2 soft pulldown
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  18. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Yeah, for an 18min-only clip, you could easily have done a, say, ~9200kbps CBR or 9000kbps AVG+9600kbps MAX VBR encoding.

    And Toast's encoder has always been pretty mediocre. If you don't already have Compressor available, I'd suggest trying out ffmpegX.

    Also, IIWY, I would create not just the VIDEO_TS folder structure, but a whole actual ISO disc image. I'm confident Discmakers can accept that format (even though they don't specifically mention it). Most preferable would have been a DDP image file, but Toast doesn't do those (only DVDStudioPro & Encore, for Macs).

    Scott
    How do I create an ISO disc image? And I don't have Compressor or ffmpegx. I also Don't have DVDStudioPro or Encore. I've heard a lot of people talk about Encore. Is it still being Sold? I also have no idea what a DDP image file is. Sorry, this is all very new to me. I just need someone to step me through getting my original .mov file to a format discmakers.com can take and with the best quality.
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  19. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Originally Posted by MementoMori View Post
    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    I just made an edit - see above. Check to see if they will accept your prores source directly . Some places do.

    or is there a list somewhere on their webpage that details what they will accept ?
    They can take my original .mov file, but then it will cost me an extra $200 for them to do the extra work. That's why they told me to send a TS_Video file. If you know if another program I can use besides toast that will give me the best quality, I'm up for that as well. BluRay does make more sense also.
    Right, the extra fee

    But won't they charge you extra for sending the a blu-ray as well? (since you're doing a short run of DVD's not BD's, so they'll have to re-encode it, re-author it = more work)

    I don' t know precisely how to do this on a Mac, but for certain those are 2 areas that will help improve quality for a DVD 1) higher bitrate , at least closer to the maximum allowed 2) progressive encoding with 3:2 soft pulldown
    If I send them a .mov file, they will charge me an extra $200 on top of whatever is costs to create the short run of DVD's or BluRay's. If I send them a TS_Video file, they wont charge me the extra $200. I was only doing DVD's because it's cheaper, but I can probably do BluRay's instead. If I wanted to convert my .mov to a filetype that can be burned onto a BluRay, is it still a TS_Video file, or is it something else?
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  20. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    From a simple eHow search:
    Things You'll Need
    Toast file
    Disk Utility
    Instructions
    1. Double-click the toast image file (.toast) to mount it in Finder.
    2. Open Disk Utility. Select Go > Utilities from the Finder's menu bar.
    3. Highlight the mounted drive directly below and indented under the .toast file within Disk Utility's sidebar.
    4. Select "New Image" from the navigation toolbar. Type a name and select a save destination for the new file. Select "DVD/CD Master" from the Format drop-down menu. Select "OK" to begin the conversion process.
    5. Open the folder containing the newly converted image file. You will notice it has a .CDR extension. Double-click the text of the file to edit the name. Delete the ".cdr" extension, replace it with ".iso" A warning will pop-up asking if you want to change the file association from .cdr to .iso, select "Use .iso" Your toast file is now an ISO.
    ffmpegX is free, and easy to find.

    Encore is still sold (as part of the PP CS6 Download capability available to CC subscribers), though what you're paying for is PP CC (a decent value there, too).

    Don't worry about DDP for now, especially if they (DiscMakers) will take an ISO (which you CAN make).

    How did you make the film to begin with (editing app)? How did it come to be in ProRes? The app that did that might be the app that can do more of these other things you need done...

    BTW, stop calling it a TS_video file, please. The "VIDEO_TS" folder is the specified folder that DVD-Video compliant video/audio/subtitle, menu & navigation files go into. The video itself is contained (along with other items) within the "VIDEO_TS.VOB" or one or more of the "VTS_##_X.VOB" files. But they should be taken TOGETHER AS A WHOLE UNIT. (see the "What is DVD"? section at this site). That's why I recommend the ISO. So, you make a *.toast file & convert it to .ISO. Or go a different route with ffmpegX, etc.

    Scott
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  21. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    From a simple eHow search:
    Things You'll Need
    Toast file
    Disk Utility
    Instructions
    1. Double-click the toast image file (.toast) to mount it in Finder.
    2. Open Disk Utility. Select Go > Utilities from the Finder's menu bar.
    3. Highlight the mounted drive directly below and indented under the .toast file within Disk Utility's sidebar.
    4. Select "New Image" from the navigation toolbar. Type a name and select a save destination for the new file. Select "DVD/CD Master" from the Format drop-down menu. Select "OK" to begin the conversion process.
    5. Open the folder containing the newly converted image file. You will notice it has a .CDR extension. Double-click the text of the file to edit the name. Delete the ".cdr" extension, replace it with ".iso" A warning will pop-up asking if you want to change the file association from .cdr to .iso, select "Use .iso" Your toast file is now an ISO.
    ffmpegX is free, and easy to find.

    Encore is still sold (as part of the PP CS6 Download capability available to CC subscribers), though what you're paying for is PP CC (a decent value there, too).

    Don't worry about DDP for now, especially if they (DiscMakers) will take an ISO (which you CAN make).

    How did you make the film to begin with (editing app)? How did it come to be in ProRes? The app that did that might be the app that can do more of these other things you need done...

    BTW, stop calling it a TS_video file, please. The "VIDEO_TS" folder is the specified folder that DVD-Video compliant video/audio/subtitle, menu & navigation files go into. The video itself is contained (along with other items) within the "VIDEO_TS.VOB" or one or more of the "VTS_##_X.VOB" files. But they should be taken TOGETHER AS A WHOLE UNIT. (see the "What is DVD"? section at this site). That's why I recommend the ISO. So, you make a *.toast file & convert it to .ISO. Or go a different route with ffmpegX, etc.

    Scott
    Apologies, didn't mean to offend. That's how they referred to it when they told me. Can this process be used for DVD and BluRay or is there a different method for BluRay?
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  22. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    No offense taken. Just thought that:
    1. When continually used incorrectly like that, it casts a worse light on your apparent abilities.
    2. It can end up confusing other newbies who may later happen upon this thread in search of a similar problem
    3. Part of "videohelp" is setting you on the right path to understanding (of both nomenclature & tech process workings)

    If you are referring to using the "*.toast -> *.ISO image conversion", then YES. As long as Toast can output a validly authored Blu-ray image in *.toast format (or *.dmg) the abovementioned utility can convert it to an ISO that is both burnable & mountable/readable.

    If you are referring to the ability of Toast to create BD (aka "Blu-ray Disc") images vs. DVD-Video images, it would only do so with either the Supplemental (and $$) plugin, or using the Pro ($$) version of Toast 11/12. Again, there are other, perhaps better, options on Mac. But no many. Mac is no friend to Blu-ray (that's their official stance!).

    Scott
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  23. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    No offense taken. Just thought that:
    1. When continually used incorrectly like that, it casts a worse light on your apparent abilities.
    2. It can end up confusing other newbies who may later happen upon this thread in search of a similar problem
    3. Part of "videohelp" is setting you on the right path to understanding (of both nomenclature & tech process workings)

    If you are referring to using the "*.toast -> *.ISO image conversion", then YES. As long as Toast can output a validly authored Blu-ray image in *.toast format (or *.dmg) the abovementioned utility can convert it to an ISO that is both burnable & mountable/readable.

    If you are referring to the ability of Toast to create BD (aka "Blu-ray Disc") images vs. DVD-Video images, it would only do so with either the Supplemental (and $$) plugin, or using the Pro ($$) version of Toast 11/12. Again, there are other, perhaps better, options on Mac. But no many. Mac is no friend to Blu-ray (that's their official stance!).

    Scott
    Okay, so I called them to confirm the file types again, and she said with Blu-Ray, I would have to send them a burned Blu-Ray disc. I don't have a Blu-Ray Burner, so that's out. She said with DVD i can send them a Video_TS folder, or udf, ISO, DDP, or an IMG file. Would any of those other options be better? I followed the steps you posted to create the ISO file, but I'm just worried, because when I watch the "VTS_01_1.VOB" file from what toast created, the quality looks like shit. Is it possible that it will looks better once it's burned onto a DVD?
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  24. Originally Posted by MementoMori View Post
    when I watch the "VTS_01_1.VOB" file from what toast created, the quality looks like shit. Is it possible that it will looks better once it's burned onto a DVD?
    The iso is simply a repackaging of the folders that hold the .vobs. They are supposed to be identical.
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  25. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    If it already looks like shit to you, it'll look like shit to (most likely) everyone else, too.*

    I already said Toast is a mediocre encoder. Don't use it for that. Encode your files elsewhere (e.g. ffmpegX), then add the already-DVDVideo-compliant files to Toast to author (hopefully, it's not so stupid as to re-encode). Or bypass Toast altogether by going the Encore route.

    First make sure your title is encoded correctly to your quality standards. Then author to DVD-Video specifications. Then burn (to disc or to discimage file).

    Scott

    *Exception: because of your player/display combination, interlaced video might be looking like crap on your PC, but burned to actual disc and played in an actual player and shown on an actual TV, it might look OK. YMMV.
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