VideoHelp Forum
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8
Thread
  1. Member
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: Australia
    Search PM
    I've gathered equipment for capturing Australian PAL VHS-C tapes.

    ATI AMD TV Wonder HD 600 USB 2.0(set up as a "USB 2883 Device" on Windows 7 64bit)

    AVToolbox AVT 8710(black, I'm not certain how to determine if it's working correctly or defective)

    JVC VHS-C Cassette Adapter C-P7U

    Panasonic NV-FS200(German, Should I enable TBC?, I also hear a static, click sound every few seconds when using RCA cables for audio while playing a VHS tape)

    I plan on using S-Video cables to capture the video, RCA stereo white and red for audio.

    I understand VHS-C tapes are terrible quality wise, however I'd like to get as much out of them as possible.

    Is there any other equipment I should obtain before proceeding? Is there a specific brand of S-Video, or RCA cable I should buy?

    What's the best program for capturing using the equipment I've listed? Which resolution should I capture at? Are there any other settings I'll need to worry about?
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: Toronto Canada
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by gary_y
    ATI AMD TV Wonder HD 600 USB 2.0(set up as a "USB 2883 Device" on Windows 7 64bit)
    Good choice for capture device - no "better" is needed for VHS capture, and that is indeed the EMP chip used under the hood. Glad you got it working with W7. (Hopefully it works with PAL.)

    Originally Posted by gary_y
    AVToolbox AVT 8710(black, I'm not certain how to determine if it's working correctly or defective)
    I see you've been reading other threads on this.

    I would say it's a very flaky product, but very good when working (but a good compromise since you saved thousands of dollars getting this one instead of a broadcast level TBC). From my experience, it's best used when power cycling for a new tape, or after you activate a VCR menu, or similar. Once it starts filtering a tape, and you do nothing during that time, only play the tape, it will not be thrown off. If inserting a new tape, then you may need to power cycle it again.

    It's only when you change the signal that affects it, so you may have to modify your workflow for it.

    Other that that, it's fine. Its job is to clean the harsh signal from analog tape and avoid dropped frames. It can help with tape jitter indirectly somewhat, but that's not what it's supposed to do.

    To see if it's defective, try a tape that emits a "false positive", or MV. If it filters a clean signal, it's "working".

    Sometimes it tends to produce ghosting, but if you use more than one VCR in the mix, it will work better with another on a given tape.

    If you really find the AVT-8710 troublesome, you can try the Panasonic ES10/ES15 DVR as a passthrough (although it won't correct MV).

    Originally Posted by gary_y
    JVC VHS-C Cassette Adapter C-P7U

    Panasonic NV-FS200(German, Should I enable TBC?, I also hear a static, click sound every few seconds when using RCA cables for audio while playing a VHS tape)
    Never tried these units. As for VCRs, you should have more than one in your chain since each can have varied response for each tape (as well as from your AVT-8710).

    As for the internal TBC on the Panasonic, it didn't work for me on any of my AG-1980's that I've used (had two of them once). Since this one was a field TBC, it would output the wrong field order at times, completely at random, so since this can be disastrous to an editing workflow, I gave up on it. Can't say for sure with your unit though. Maybe someone else can chime in here.

    The audio was great on the AG-1980, so can't comment here. But if you have another VCR that produces better audio - use that one for audio, and edit/mux the two capture results afterwards.

    Originally Posted by gary_y
    I plan on using S-Video cables to capture the video, RCA stereo white and red for audio.
    Although dot crawl that occurs with composite/RCA video (the yellow one) can be cleared, and is sufficient for VHS/VHS-C, yes indeed, use S-Video if you have that option here.

    The red and whites are just fine for audio.

    Originally Posted by gary_y
    I understand VHS-C tapes are terrible quality wise, however I'd like to get as much out of them as possible.
    Don't expect great quality from VHS/VHS-C, but, with a good VCR, using lossless video formats for capturing and good post-processing techniques afterwards (ex: noise removal, chroma adjustments, etc), you can make it acceptable and worth archiving.

    Originally Posted by gary_y
    Is there any other equipment I should obtain before proceeding?
    Maybe a proc amp can help. Many saturation levels, and contrasts can be corrected here, and you can capture in the proper IRE levels. However, if you are not way off, or nothing is clipping, it can be fixed with software afterwards.

    Originally Posted by gary_y
    Is there a specific brand of S-Video, or RCA cable I should buy?
    Super expensive is overkill for VHS/VHS-C. Super cheap can still work, but may be problematic quality-wise in longer lengths, and likely unreliable and may even die on you in the middle of a capture. I personally have had excellent value from Pearstone Gold Series cables, which you can get at B&H - high quality for a super price.

    What's the best program for capturing using the equipment I've listed? Which resolution should I capture at? Are there any other settings I'll need to worry about?
    I like VirtualDub.

    My settings are somewhat listed here:
    http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/365390-How-do-I-use-VirtualDub-to-capture-8mm-camco...=1#post2329569

    Since you're in PAL, I say use 720x576, 25fps to capture.
    Last edited by PuzZLeR; 27th Jun 2014 at 11:17.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
    Quote Quote  
  3. Member
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: Australia
    Search PM
    So in the past few weeks I finally got around to capturing my VHS-C tapes using all of the settings suggested by you(thanks) and I'm pretty satisfied with the way they've turned out.
    But I've been looking around and I'm wondering whether I've made a mistake disabling the full-field TBC on my NV-FS200 and only relying on the AVT 8710. Would there be any difference in the quality if I'd used both? I'm trying to get the best quality possible, so I'd appreciate if anyone could please tell me if I should re-do them with the TBC enabled.
    Quote Quote  
  4. Look for wiggling lines or attach a sample video containing vertical lines so we can look.
    Quote Quote  
  5. Member
    Join Date: May 2014
    Location: Tennessee, US
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by gary_y View Post
    AVToolbox AVT 8710(black, I'm not certain how to determine if it's working correctly or defective)
    Usually a line tbc like the AVT-8710 is used to defeat Macrovision copy protection. I don't think your VHS-C tapes are copy protected. Otherwise it is used to help maintain proper video frame rate and audio sync.

    Originally Posted by gary_y View Post
    Panasonic NV-FS200(German, Should I enable TBC?
    Yes. The player has a line-level tbc used to reduce distortion in all analog tapes. The AVT-8710 has no effect on this problem.

    Originally Posted by gary_y View Post
    I plan on using S-Video cables to capture the video, RCA stereo white and red for audio.
    That's correct. Avoid composite cable for video.

    Originally Posted by gary_y View Post
    Is there a specific brand of S-Video, or RCA cable I should buy?
    It doesn't matter.

    Originally Posted by gary_y View Post
    What's the best program for capturing using the equipment I've listed? Which resolution should I capture at? Are there any other settings I'll need to worry about?
    Capture with Virtualdub to YUY2 colorspace, 720x576 interlaced with huffyuv or Lagarith lossless compression. From losslesss AVI you can do any processing you want without quality loss from re-compression, and you can encode later to any output format you want.
    Last edited by LMotlow; 15th Dec 2014 at 02:50.
    - My sister Ann's brother
    Quote Quote  
  6. Member
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: Australia
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    Look for wiggling lines or attach a sample video containing vertical lines so we can look.
    OK, I've done that. There is a definitely a noticeable improvement with TBC enabled, thanks. I'm going to re-do my tapes. *sigh*

    Originally Posted by lmotlow View Post
    Originally Posted by gary_y View Post
    what's the best program for capturing using the equipment i've listed? Which resolution should i capture at? Are there any other settings i'll need to worry about?
    Capture with virtualdub to yuy2 colorspace, 720x480 interlaced with huffyuv or lagarith lossless compression. From losslesss avi you can do many processing you want without loss of quality and you can encode later to any output format you want.
    I've been capturing at 720x576 because my tapes are PAL. Is there any reason why I should capture with 720x480 instead?
    Quote Quote  
  7. Member
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Location: Finland
    Search Comp PM
    Nope, stay at 720x576. He probably just didn't notice your location. If you need to save space you can capture at some lower horizontal resolution (e.g. 360x576) with VHS, but the amount of lines is fixed with the video standard.
    Quote Quote  
  8. Member
    Join Date: May 2014
    Location: Tennessee, US
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by ajk View Post
    Nope, stay at 720x576. He probably just didn't notice your location.
    Oops. Yep, you're correct. I overlooked that teentsy detail. Will correct my post above. Thanks.

    As lossless AVI, the capture will of course display as 720x576 and will look that way in VirtualDub and most editor windows. That's because decoded lossless video itself has no DAR (Display Aspect Ratio) other than its own physical dimensions. But VirtualDub, most editors, and most decent media players let you adjust the display so that 720x576 looks like a 4:3 image. This affects only the display, not the video itself. I mention it because a lot of folks have a panic attack the first time they see decoded video.
    Last edited by LMotlow; 15th Dec 2014 at 02:59.
    - My sister Ann's brother
    Quote Quote