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  1. Member
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    Hi, i'm trying to rip from a DVD into a raw MPG2 file (i.e. without re-encoding) from the VOBs, but i'm having trouble removing the pulldown flags.

    The title I want to rip is structured in 4 VOB files, and this is where the problem lies. According to eac3to, the video format of the first file (it's an NTSC DVD) is:
    "MPEG2, 480i60 /1.001 (16:9)"
    i.e. it can't find any pulldown flags, so using -stripPulldown has no effect as it appears not to attempt to remove any.

    However for the other 3 VOB files, the format is:
    MPEG2, 480p24 /1.001 (16:9) with pulldown flags
    If I run eac3to with the -stripPulldown argument for these 3 VOB files to create a joined VOB file, it attempts to remove the flags this time, although it then says:
    The MPEG2 stream is a mixture of progressive and interlaced encoding. The Pulldown cannot be removed from this type of MPEG2 stream. Will have to abort processing and redo everything.
    My ultimate goal is to demux the 4 VOBs into joined demuxed files, while removing the pulldown flags on the video track at the same time, something along this command:
    eac3to 1.VOB+2.VOB+3.VOB+4.VOB -demux -stripPulldown
    If I include the 1st vob in this command, as eac3to doesn't detect any pulldown flags, it doesn't attempt to remove them from the other 3 VOBs, yet if I leave off the 1st vob from that command, it gives me the "Pulldown cannot be removed" errors as above.

    What's going on? Can you help?
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  2. Guest34343
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    There are ways to do it but it's inadvisable.

    One option:

    You can load all the VOBs into DGIndex and then demux the video to a single M2V. Then use DGPulldown to remove the pulldown flags.

    The problem with this is it will likely destroy audio sync, and I suppose that is why eac3to disallows this operation.

    Second option:

    Use eac3to individually on each VOB, then binary concatenate the resulting M2Vs. Again, it will probably ruin audio sync.
    Last edited by Guest34343; 13th Jun 2014 at 06:44.
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  3. vanished El Heggunte's Avatar
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    Just use PGCDemux, and forget about removing the pulldown flags, because

    The MPEG2 stream is a mixture of progressive and interlaced encoding.
    The Pulldown cannot be removed from this type of MPEG2 stream.
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  4. Originally Posted by bergqvistjl View Post
    The MPEG2 stream is a mixture of progressive and interlaced encoding.
    There's your problem. You cannot produce a progressive video from that without reencoding.
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  5. Guest34343
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by bergqvistjl View Post
    The MPEG2 stream is a mixture of progressive and interlaced encoding.
    There's your problem. You cannot produce a progressive video from that without reencoding.
    Not necessarily. The content itself may be progressive but is just encoded interlaced. It is quite common.
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  6. Member
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    Originally Posted by El Heggunte View Post
    Just use PGCDemux, and forget about removing the pulldown flags, because

    The MPEG2 stream is a mixture of progressive and interlaced encoding.
    The Pulldown cannot be removed from this type of MPEG2 stream.
    Damn. I tried to remove the pulldown in tsmuxer, but it complained that:
    Warning! Source stream contain irregular pulldown marks. Mistiming between original fps and fps/1.25(without pulldown) exceed 100ms.
    Ah well, such a shame. I thought DVD's didn't allow mpegs that alternate between progressive and interlaced. Weird. So is there no way to remove the pulldown at all then, even if I did re-encode it?
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  7. Guest34343
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    Originally Posted by bergqvistjl View Post
    Ah well, such a shame. I thought DVD's didn't allow mpegs that alternate between progressive and interlaced. Weird. So is there no way to remove the pulldown at all then, even if I did re-encode it?
    Of course you can if you re-encode. If the pulldown is irregular, then use DGindex with Honor Pulldown and then do external IVTC with Telecide()/Decimate() or TFM()/TDecimate(). Don't use Force Film as it will destroy audio sync.

    If you actually have a hybrid of progressive and interlaced *content* things get more complicated.
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  8. Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by bergqvistjl View Post
    The MPEG2 stream is a mixture of progressive and interlaced encoding.
    There's your problem. You cannot produce a progressive video from that without reencoding.
    Not necessarily. The content itself may be progressive but is just encoded interlaced. It is quite common.
    Yes, but like you said, he's likely to get A/V sync problems. In my experience PAL with pulldown flags is usually 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown to convert 24 frames per second to 50 fields per second.
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  9. Member
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    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    Originally Posted by bergqvistjl View Post
    Ah well, such a shame. I thought DVD's didn't allow mpegs that alternate between progressive and interlaced. Weird. So is there no way to remove the pulldown at all then, even if I did re-encode it?
    Of course you can if you re-encode. If the pulldown is irregular, then use DGindex with Honor Pulldown and then do external IVTC with Telecide()/Decimate() or TFM()/TDecimate(). Don't use Force Film as it will destroy audio sync.

    If you actually have a hybrid of progressive and interlaced *content* things get more complicated.
    I'm guessing setting it to "ignore pulldown" in DGindex and demuxing won't remove the pulldown either? (The default is Honor)
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  10. Guest34343
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Yes, but like you said, he's likely to get A/V sync problems. In my experience PAL with pulldown flags is usually 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown to convert 24 frames per second to 50 fields per second.
    He won't get audio desync from correct IVTC. OP said it is an NTSC DVD!
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  11. Guest34343
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    Originally Posted by bergqvistjl View Post
    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    Originally Posted by bergqvistjl View Post
    Ah well, such a shame. I thought DVD's didn't allow mpegs that alternate between progressive and interlaced. Weird. So is there no way to remove the pulldown at all then, even if I did re-encode it?
    Of course you can if you re-encode. If the pulldown is irregular, then use DGindex with Honor Pulldown and then do external IVTC with Telecide()/Decimate() or TFM()/TDecimate(). Don't use Force Film as it will destroy audio sync.

    If you actually have a hybrid of progressive and interlaced *content* things get more complicated.
    I'm guessing setting it to "ignore pulldown" in DGindex and demuxing won't remove the pulldown either? (The default is Honor)
    Demuxing is raw; it is not affected by the selected field operation.
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  12. Member
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    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    Originally Posted by bergqvistjl View Post
    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    Originally Posted by bergqvistjl View Post
    Ah well, such a shame. I thought DVD's didn't allow mpegs that alternate between progressive and interlaced. Weird. So is there no way to remove the pulldown at all then, even if I did re-encode it?
    Of course you can if you re-encode. If the pulldown is irregular, then use DGindex with Honor Pulldown and then do external IVTC with Telecide()/Decimate() or TFM()/TDecimate(). Don't use Force Film as it will destroy audio sync.

    If you actually have a hybrid of progressive and interlaced *content* things get more complicated.
    I'm guessing setting it to "ignore pulldown" in DGindex and demuxing won't remove the pulldown either? (The default is Honor)
    Demuxing is raw; it is not affected by the selected field operation.
    Can you rephrase that please? What does that mean in terms of pulldown? I mean, if it does't affect it, why is the option there?
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  13. He means demuxing simply demuxes -- including pulldown flags. The pulldown removal is only reflected in the index file.
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  14. Guest34343
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    Yes, jagabo is correct.

    If you are bound and determined just to remove the flags and see what happens, then re-read my first post.
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  15. Member
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    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    Yes, jagabo is correct.

    If you are bound and determined just to remove the flags and see what happens, then re-read my first post.
    I might just leave it. Seems more trouble that it's worth To me it looks like the content is actually progressive yet it's been encoded as a mixture of progressive and interlaced.
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  16. Guest34343
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    If there is a mix of hard and soft telecine then re-encoding is unavoidable. A sample would be needed to advise you properly.
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  17. Member
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    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    If there is a mix of hard and soft telecine then re-encoding is unavoidable. A sample would be needed to advise you properly.
    Well the DVD is the double-sided NTSC Region 1 version of Stephen King's It. How do I take a sample without messing with the original encoding?
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  18. Guest34343
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    Yes, you can set a range with the [ and ] keys, then demux as jagabo mentioned. That is convenient as it allows you to select the desired content.

    You can also cut the VOB directly with DGSplit.

    Try to provide sections from both the progressive-coded and the interlace-encoded VOBs.
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  19. Member
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    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    Yes, you can set a range with the [ and ] keys, then demux as jagabo mentioned. That is convenient as it allows you to select the desired content.

    You can also cut the VOB directly with DGSplit.

    Try to provide sections from both the progressive-coded and the interlace-encoded VOBs.
    Both demuxed using Honor Pulldown
    Last edited by bergqvistjl; 13th Jun 2014 at 12:09.
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  20. Index with honor pulldown flags then TFM().TDecimate().
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  21. Member
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Index with honor pulldown flags then TFM().TDecimate().
    Whereabouts is TFM().TDecimate() found?
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  22. Guest34343
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    The interlaced portion appears to be only the first 42 black frames at the start, and the rest is pure soft 3:2 pulldown.

    You can use Force Film in DGIndex or you can do external IVTC. The first will be much faster and you don't have to worry about TFM/TDecimate.

    Removing the pulldown without re-encoding is also an option.
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  23. Member
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    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    The interlaced portion appears to be only the first 42 black frames at the start, and the rest is pure soft 3:2 pulldown.

    You can use Force Film in DGIndex or you can do external IVTC. The first will be much faster and you don't have to worry about TFM/TDecimate.

    Removing the pulldown without re-encoding is also an option.
    Argh, right well im confused now..... So many different options...

    I would like to remove the pulldown without re-encoding. How do I do that?
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  24. Guest34343
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    Either of the methods in my first post.

    Of course, you will have to remux the audio and video again after you remove the pulldown from the elementary stream. You may also need a slight audio offset to account for the desync of the first 42 frames. But it will be a constant offset and will not grow throughout the stream (assuming the stream is indeed soft 3:2 throughout).
    Last edited by Guest34343; 13th Jun 2014 at 08:48.
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  25. Member
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    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    Either of the methods in my first post.
    OK, so i'm going to demux the 4 VOB files together using DGIndex, followed by running them through DGPulldown to remove the pulldown.

    When demuxing them through DGIndex, do I Honor Pulldown, ignore it, or use film mode?

    Also, Correct me if i'm wrong here, but the source framerate is currently 29.97 and I want to end up with 23.976?

    Finally, what settings do I set for DGPulldown?
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  26. Guest34343
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    Originally Posted by bergqvistjl View Post
    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    Either of the methods in my first post.
    OK, so i'm going to demux the 4 VOB files together using DGIndex, followed by running them through DGPulldown to remove the pulldown.
    Correct.

    When demuxing them through DGIndex, do I Honor Pulldown, ignore it, or use film mode?
    As we told you, it doesn't matter. The field operation is not used when demuxing.

    Also, Correct me if i'm wrong here, but the source framerate is currently 29.97 and I want to end up with 23.976?
    Yes. That will be done by DGPulldown.

    Finally, what settings do I set for DGPulldown?
    Read the included text file. Here is the key part:

    "Note that if the custom rate conversion is selected, and if the source rate is
    specified as equal to the destination rate, then all pulldown is removed and the
    stream is flagged as having a rate equal to the specified destination rate."

    So, use custom rate with both source and destination frame rate set to 23.976 fps.

    I tested it on your second sample and it works just fine.
    Last edited by Guest34343; 13th Jun 2014 at 08:51.
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  27. Member
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    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    Originally Posted by bergqvistjl View Post
    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    Either of the methods in my first post.
    OK, so i'm going to demux the 4 VOB files together using DGIndex, followed by running them through DGPulldown to remove the pulldown.
    Correct.

    When demuxing them through DGIndex, do I Honor Pulldown, ignore it, or use film mode?
    As we told you, it doesn't matter. The field operation is not used when demuxing.

    Also, Correct me if i'm wrong here, but the source framerate is currently 29.97 and I want to end up with 23.976?
    Yes. That will be done by DGPulldown.

    Finally, what settings do I set for DGPulldown?
    Read the included text file. Here is the key part:

    "Note that if the custom rate conversion is selected, and if the source rate is
    specified as equal to the destination rate, then all pulldown is removed and the
    stream is flagged as having a rate equal to the specified destination rate."

    So, use custom rate with both source and destination frame rate set to 23.976 fps.
    I'll give it a go How (or where) should I account for the 43 frame delay in the audio? I'm not sure what tool to use when remuxing again...
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  28. Member
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    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    Originally Posted by bergqvistjl View Post
    Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
    Either of the methods in my first post.
    OK, so i'm going to demux the 4 VOB files together using DGIndex, followed by running them through DGPulldown to remove the pulldown.
    Correct.

    When demuxing them through DGIndex, do I Honor Pulldown, ignore it, or use film mode?
    As we told you, it doesn't matter. The field operation is not used when demuxing.

    Also, Correct me if i'm wrong here, but the source framerate is currently 29.97 and I want to end up with 23.976?
    Yes. That will be done by DGPulldown.

    Finally, what settings do I set for DGPulldown?
    Read the included text file. Here is the key part:

    "Note that if the custom rate conversion is selected, and if the source rate is
    specified as equal to the destination rate, then all pulldown is removed and the
    stream is flagged as having a rate equal to the specified destination rate."

    So, use custom rate with both source and destination frame rate set to 23.976 fps.

    I tested it on your second sample and it works just fine.
    Well i've done it on all 4 vobs and it works fine, thanks What tool should I re-use for muxing back into an MPEG file, and how do I account for the 43sec delay in the audio tracks?
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  29. Guest34343
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    It depends a bit on your audio type. What is the filename (with extension) of the demuxed audio that you would like to use?
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