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  1. Well sony vegas seams to have a few sizes for PAL

    When creating an avi, i have normal PAL and PAL widescreen
    When i create a mpg2 i have only one PAL version

    When i play them using VLC, the file info seams to be the same amount of pixels.
    Yet on shows as widescreen, and the other more square like.

    Now my goal is to create a DVD that can be played in a general DVD player for a television, not a computer.
    So i think should be saved as vob files, a format i didnt see inside vegas hmmm.


    I will be recording a music band (a few gopro black fixed position + canon60d for zoom work)
    The band wants to have a DVD of their live act.
    Their wish is a HD dvd, but as far i can tell 720x576 is the max for a general DVD ?, only with bleuray one could go higher
    It must be a dvd that would work on all players, so people who buy their dvd wont start complaining about its not working for their dvd.

    Well I will be recording in a higher res as 720x576 (i'll record at 1080p / 720p)

    Can someone help me to what format i should save, or maybe use something else (virtualdub / or other codecs )
    A thing i often do is edit in vegas - save uncrompessed - and then virtualdub tuning, but at some point i need to go to .vob i guess ???

    Also am i right about 720x576 here, or is there a general HD format for DVD that is commonly accepted amongst DVD players ?
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  2. 720x576 is pretty much all you can choose for DVD, and any commercial DVD authoring will flag it as interlace. I say that , because your source is perhaps progressive.

    Go uncompressed or lossless all the way , until you load it into dvd authoring or some mpeg2 encoder. Then you choose 16:9 in that DVD authoring. Assuming you work with 25p. Because if your original is 50p, I guess the way to go is to fix your picture all the way as 50p, and only while encoding to DVD with dvd authoring (or something else) video should be changed to 25i.
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  3. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
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    @_Al_,
    That's a little simplified. DVD supports the following PAL "sizes":
    720 x 576, 16:9 DAR
    720 x576, 4:3 DAR
    704 x 576, 16:9 DAR
    704 x 576, 4:3 DAR
    352 x 576, 4:3 DAR
    352 x 288, 4:3 DAR

    @Razorblade,
    What to go with depends ALOT on what you're starting with (in the camera). In the interim, during editing, you could either stay with the codec type & resolution of your cam originals, assuming your NLE has "Smart Rendering", or you can upconvert it to Uncompressed, Losslessly-Compressed, or (Lightly) Lossy-Compressed (hopefully using a codec and at a rate that makes it equivalent to lossless quality). Stay in HD for as long as you can, and then only when ready to make a DVD (with the finished HD master) do you downconvert (at the same time as you encode to MPEG2, saving a step & generation loss). You need to set your DAR when encoding (and ALSO when authoring).

    DVD only shows 25i (or 29.97i in NTSC projects). You can "fake" 25p by using co-timed fields (and also flag it as "progressive"). In the right player, it could even play correctly as 25p. If you have 50p, you will have to do an interlace during your downconvert step. BTW, I would recommend you go from 50p->25i, not 50p->25p (loss of temporal resolution is probably more noticeable at that point). If you are recording in cam with 720p, that is sure to be 720p50 (PAL lands) or 720p60 (NTSC lands). The term "1080p" could mean 25p or 50p, depending upon the manufacturer's BS factors.

    Always better to start from a HIGHER quality and go DOWN, than to have to try to go UP from a LOWER quality (or often, even starting from a lower quality and staying there) - it shows.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  4. if you do not need menu, you can make progressive m2v video (25p) and AC3 audio and muxman will produce VIDEO_TS:
    Code:
    MuxMan.exe "project.mxp" -d "c:\DVD_folder" -l "muxman.log" -run
    where project.mxp could be:
    (you just replace File=C:\temp\out.m2v and File=C:\temp\out.ac3 with proper stream name and path)
    Code:
    Section=Settings
    {
    	Destination Folder=
    	Item=Palette
    	{
    		Name=DefaultPalette
    		Color 0=0,0,0
    		Color 1=255,0,0
    		Color 2=0,255,0
    		Color 3=255,0,0
    		Color 4=0,255,0
    		Color 5=0,0,0
    		Color 6=0,0,0
    		Color 7=0,0,0
    		Color 8=0,0,0
    		Color 9=0,0,0
    		Color 10=0,0,0
    		Color 11=0,0,0
    		Color 12=0,0,0
    		Color 13=0,0,0
    		Color 14=0,0,0
    		Color 15=0,0,0
    	}
    }
    Section=Content
    {
    	Item=Segment
    	{
    		Name=Segment_1
    		Display Mode=16:9
    		Item=Video Stream
    		{
    			Item=Video Play
    			{
    				File=C:\temp\out.m2v
    				Duration=Actual
    			}
    		}
    		Item=Audio Stream
    		{
    			Stream Number=1
    			Language=en
    			Language Extension=1
    			Item=Audio Play
    			{
    				File=C:\temp\out.ac3
    			}
    		}
    		Item=Scene List
    		{
    			Item=Scene
    			{
    				Name=Segment_1_scn1
    				Scene Time=00:00:00:0
    				Uop=0
    			}
    		}
    	}
    }
    Section=Navigation
    {
    	Item=First PGC
    	{
    		Name=FP
    		Menu ID=No Menu
    		Uop=00000000
    		PG Playback Mode=Sequential Playback
    		Repeat Times=0
    		PGC Still Time=0
    		Palette=DefaultPalette
    		Item=Pre Commands
    		{
    			Mov GPRM0, 1
    			JumpSS TitleMenu
    		}
    		Item=Post Commands
    		{
    		}
    		Item=Cell Commands
    		{
    		}
    		Item=Program List
    		{
    		}
    	}
    	Item=VMG
    	{
    		Item=Language
    		{
    			Name=VMGM
    			Language=en
    			Item=PGC
    			{
    				Name=MainMenu
    				Menu ID=Title Menu
    				Uop=000C03E3 
    				Next PGC=
    				GoUp PGC=
    				PG Playback Mode=Sequential Playback
    				Repeat Times=0
    				PGC Still Time=0
    				Palette=DefaultPalette
    				Item=Pre Commands
    				{
    					Mov GPRM1, 1
    					if ( GPRM0 == GPRM1 ) JumpTT TitleSet1_Title1
    					Mov GPRM1, 2
    					if ( GPRM0 == GPRM1 ) Exit
    				}
    				Item=Post Commands
    				{
    				}
    				Item=Cell Commands
    				{
    				}
    				Item=Program List
    				{
    				}
    			}
    			Item=PGC
    			{
    				Name=MainJumpPGC1
    				Menu ID=No Menu
    				Uop=000C03E3 
    				Next PGC=
    				GoUp PGC=
    				PG Playback Mode=Sequential Playback
    				Repeat Times=0
    				PGC Still Time=0
    				Palette=DefaultPalette
    				Item=Pre Commands
    				{
    					Mov GPRM2, 1
    					if ( GPRM1 == GPRM2 ) JumpTT TitleSet1_Title1
    					Mov GPRM2, 2
    					if ( GPRM1 == GPRM2 ) LinkPGCN MainMenu
    				}
    				Item=Post Commands
    				{
    					LinkPGCN MainMenu
    				}
    				Item=Cell Commands
    				{
    				}
    				Item=Program List
    				{
    				}
    			}
    		}
    	}
    	Item=VTS01
    	{
    		Item=Language
    		{
    			Name=TitleSet1M
    			Language=en
    			Item=PGC
    			{
    				Name=TitleSet1Menu
    				Menu ID=Root Menu
    				Uop=000C03E3 
    				Next PGC=
    				GoUp PGC=
    				PG Playback Mode=Sequential Playback
    				Repeat Times=0
    				PGC Still Time=0
    				Palette=DefaultPalette
    				Item=Pre Commands
    				{
    					JumpVTS_TT TitleSet1_Title1
    				}
    				Item=Post Commands
    				{
    				}
    				Item=Cell Commands
    				{
    				}
    				Item=Program List
    				{
    				}
    			}
    		}
    		Item=Title
    		{
    			Name=TitleSet1_Title1
    			Uop=0
    			Item=PGC
    			{
    				Name=TitleSet1_Title1_PGC1
    				Menu ID=Title Entry
    				Uop=0
    				Next PGC=
    				Prev PGC=
    				GoUp PGC=
    				PG Playback Mode=Sequential Playback
    				Repeat Times=0
    				PGC Still Time=0
    				Palette=DefaultPalette
    				Item=Pre Commands
    				{
    				}
    				Item=Post Commands
    				{
    					Mov GPRM0, 2
    					CallSS RSM=1, TitleMenu
    				}
    				Item=Cell Commands
    				{
    				}
    				Item=Program List
    				{
    					Item=Program
    					{
    						Name=TitleSet1_Title1_chapter1
    						Item=Cell
    						{
    							Name=TitleSet1_Title1_cell1
    							Linked Scene=Segment_1_scn1
    							Command=
    							Cell Still Time=0
    							VOBU Still Flag=False
    							Access Restriction Flag=Permitted
    							Cell Type=0
    							Seamless Flag = Default
    						}
    					}
    				}
    			}
    			Item=Part of Title List
    			{
    				Item=TitleSet1_Title1_chapter1
    			}
    		}
    	}
    }
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  5. Ok interesting and thanks

    Now with the canon 60d i will shoot 25p [1920x1080]
    It can also do 720p at 50 frames/sec but thats not good in lower light conditions.
    I will go for 25p manual lightning and using 180degree rule for shutter speed... oh in simple thats 1/50 sec with 25frames a sec.

    As i shoot at 25p do i need todo something to make it 25i (i for inter latched i assume)
    Should i do something special as i read about 25i and 25p ?


    I'm also using magic lantern on the canon (but not on the gopro ofcourse) but as far as i know it cant do 25p>25i
    For the go pro's here3 black i dont know yet i'm still waiting on delivery.
    Last edited by Razorblade; 6th Jun 2014 at 14:44.
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  6. Originally Posted by Razorblade View Post
    As i shoot at 25p do i need todo something to make it 25i (i for inter latched i assume)
    No. Progressive content is easily encoded as interlaced for PAL DVD. Just set up the encoder for interlaced encoding. You don't actually have to interlace the video. However, personally, if I were in a PAL country I'd encode it as progressive. Your DVD player should play it with no problems at all.
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  7. Just heads up. If you load progressive mpeg2 , but otherwise all by DVD specs, most commercial DVD authoring software will not accept that and that DVD authoring will insist on trying to re-encode it again to interlace.
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  8. Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    If you load progressive mpeg2 , but otherwise all by DVD specs, most commercial DVD authoring software will not accept that ...
    Maybe you should say 'some'? I just tested progressive 25 PAL DVD video with Muxman and it accepted it with no problem. And it's very strict.

    General
    Complete name : F:\Sholay DVD1\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.VOB
    Format : MPEG-PS
    File size : 218 MiB
    Duration : 5mn 31s
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable
    Overall bit rate : 5 501 Kbps

    Video
    ID : 224 (0xE0)
    Format : MPEG Video
    Format version : Version 2
    Format profile : Main@Main
    Format settings, BVOP : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix : Custom
    Format settings, GOP : Variable
    Duration : 5mn 31s
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 4 943 Kbps
    Maximum bit rate : 9 500 Kbps
    Width : 720 pixels
    Height : 576 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 25.000 fps
    Standard : PAL
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Scan order : Top Field First
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.477
    Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
    Time code source : Group of pictures header
    Stream size : 196 MiB (90%)

    Audio
    ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
    Format : AC-3
    Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
    Mode extension : CM (complete main)
    Format settings, Endianness : Big
    Muxing mode : DVD-Video
    Duration : 5mn 31s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 448 Kbps
    Channel(s) : 1 channel
    Channel positions : Front: C
    Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
    Bit depth : 16 bits
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Delay relative to video : -8ms
    Stream size : 17.7 MiB (8%)


    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    ...and that DVD authoring will insist on trying to re-encode it again to interlace.
    As you know, authoring isn't encoding. If the authoring program also has an encoder built in and if it insists on reencoding, use a different authoring program. One like Muxman. And I daresay you'll find very few if any PAL DVD players that won't play it. Me, I'd be much more worried about a flag-reading PAL DVD player deinterlacing an already progressive but encoded as interlaced stream and degrading the video quality.
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  9. I posted 25p example with muxman that it works with 25p above also, I used it many times, I posted example also, I do not regard Muxman as commercial software, but whatever ... DVD muxed with muxman, using progressive m2v, played in anything I encountered (or others) ... I simplified process of making DVD using script, using muxman.

    I was simply warning op, because he might very well encode progressive 25p mpeg2 and load it into DVD Architect (or Encore) to find out that that program will not let it go through. So the solution is just to load that uncompressed video and let that authoring to encode the video. I am concerned as well to make DVD with progressive content having interlace flag, but what do you do, it supposedly goes on screen well. Also someone might get mpeg2 out of that DVD and possibly be deinterlacing already progressive content ... So that is why my heads up remark. Maybe avs2dvd would make progressive DVD with menu , op most probably wants menu, authoring progressive content. Is it using muxman? I was getting that muxman project out of some free DVD authoring, but I do not remember now what it was, avs2dvd or DVD author, not sure ...
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  10. Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    I do not regard Muxman as commercial software...
    Maybe you should as its muxing engine is as good or better than anything out there, including Scenarist's. And since the Pro version costs money, strictly speaking it is commercial. And if you've tested progressively-encoded video for PAL DVD in different DVD players and not found any problems, then we're in agreement.

    I don't know DVD Architect but I wouldn't hold up Adobe Encore as a good example of an authoring program as Encore is notorious for refusing to author some DVD-compliant streams.
    So the solution is just to load that uncompressed video and let that authoring to encode the video.
    Some of us like a more 'hands-on' approach. And again, authoring is separate from encoding. An authoring program at its most basic takes already DVD-compliant assets and creates a DVD from them. Menu creation, subtitle creation, audio or video encoding, are all different operations which may or may not be included with an authoring program.

    Is it using muxman?
    AvsToDVD? Yes. And with GUI4DVDAuthor you can (and should) choose to use Muxman for the authoring.
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  11. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
    Search Comp PM
    I'm pretty sure DVD Architect CAN do progressive clips w/o re-encoding, it just has to be set up correctly (sorry, running some high-priority encodes this weekend, cannot take the time out to check).

    I agree, much better to use and encoder to do the encoding, and an authoring app to just do the authoring. But "better" is in the eye of the beholder, so YMMMV.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  12. I just tried DVD Architect 5.2 and you are right, it allowed to make DVD without re-encoding progressive m2v video encoded in HcEncoder. Maybe I tested older versions before or some broken versions or I did something wrong, it seems to accept those m2v videos, I guess I made too much fuss about nothing ...
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