I am trying to rip my Pink Panther Cartoon DVD into 576p h264 files, but I am a n00b when it comes to PAL since I live in the NTSC world.
I thought that PAL was a 24fps to 25fps speedup so all that I needed to do was deinterlace or decomb but as far as I can see there is a "pulldown" stuck in this, but I maybe wrong so that's why I am posting and asking for help.
So do I need to remove the pulldown like I would for NTSC? If so what would be the frame rate? 24 or 23.976?
Below are some screen shots of what looks to me like a pulldown.
I uploaded 2 minutes of the VOB file from the DVD if you want a look at it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3fl7e8HZwOqUkI4Wmk4aEV2N0E/edit?usp=sharing
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Generally PAL is just "film" sped up to 25fps (unless it's "native" PAL) and it's either interlaced or progressive, but sometimes pulldown is used for film to PAL conversions. I think the pattern is 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3, so you'd see one "interlaced frame" in around every 12 frames.
However...... your sample looks purely interlaced to me. It just needs to be de-interlaced to 25fps.
Try either deinterlace slow OR turn that off and try setting decomb to default. I think you'll notice an
improvement for what you are trying to do. Slightly better than fast deinterlace.
BTW are you on a Mac or PC?
It's a combination of phase-shifted 2:2 and random field blending. I suppose this was an NTSC master run through a "smart" converter that incorrectly guessed a lot of the content was video. There's a lot less blending in the episode itself than the opening credits.
Avisynth script to reverse the 2:2 part:
MPEG2Source("PP_PAL.d2v") TFM(PP=0,slow=2) #frames 144, 146, 148, etc. are interlaced due to field blending
I encoded a full episode using fast and slow, I still see those weird frames (I call a pulldown) but they are progressive.
The best that seems to work is set detelecine to default and fps as same as source, though it encodes at 25fps (shouldn't it be 24?) I uploaded the sample. I think this works best unless anyone has a better solution?
I tried that custom string but it made everything worse.
I'm on a PC but I use Apple TV so I have to encode for that format which is basically mp4 container.
You're in a tricky situation here. I do a LOT of PAL DVD backups and encodes to mp4 for portable use for travel.
Chances are your source here is a speedup (from 24 fps film source) to 25fps. Or it is from an NTSC master that
was remastered to PAL. And some of the authoring quality of PAL DVD's is all over the place (NTSC too!).
Point being, you have to treat each DVD differently, even within a box-set sometimes.
I just checked out your encode. Did you try DECOMB default yet?
Last edited by Dougster; 25th May 2014 at 16:43.
Yeah this certainly is a quirky one, it's an early 90's cartoon. They probably just took the NTSC masters and sped it up to 25, with pulldown and all.
Yes Decomb did the same results more or less, you will find those interlaced frames in there but they are smoothed out to progressive. They aren't supposed to be there, that's why I think it's a sloppy NTSC conversion.
Either way the detelecine seems to work even if the 25fps is wrong I can't see any sync problems. I did test on 24fps but I can notice a frame drop during panning making it look choppy but at 25 it seems OK.
One of those things.
You can always try decomb 'bob' , constant frame-rate @ 50 fps or 59.94 and maybe one of those will work.
If its film speedup 50, if its conversion from NTSC, 59.94 might work (sometimes). Its worth a try.
Listening to the audio from your encode sounds like PAL speedup. Then I noticed the graphic 'in Stereo where available'.
So was this from a DVD or a stream capture?
Handbrake has a setting for deinterlace and decomb called "bob" but not sure if they will do much better. I'll give it a try and post an update if it helped.
Not a TV rip.
To get vps in handbrake you select bob as the deinterlace method and specify the output frame rate as 50 fps. You'll still have blended frames, of course. To get rid of the blended frames you'll need to use a filter like SRestore() in AviSynth -- you can't use Handbrake for this.
Mpeg2Source("PP_PAL.d2v") Yadif(mode=1, order=1) # double frame rate smart bob SRestore(frate=25) # preferentially discard blended frames leaving 25 fps
That does look better. Still the source DVD authoring was less than perfect to begin with. But if its
all you have to work with, it is what it is.
Edit - BTW I was able to duplicate what you did using Hybrid since it has AviSynth support.
Last edited by Dougster; 25th May 2014 at 19:27.
VirtualDub to encode after opening an AviSynth script (File -> Open Video File, just like opening any video file in VirtualDub) but you still need to have AviSynth set up, the required filters downloaded and installed, and write your AviSynth scripts.
I've never used Hybrid but Dougster seems to be indicating it's easy to AviSynth filters with it. I'd try that first.
Well, not EASY EASY but easy enough. Slight learning curve. It has extensive AviSynth support within the AviSynth tab.
All GUI, no command line interface but its all there and then some. Selur did a great job!
Its my goto tool when Handbrake can't handle it.
Final thoughts before I log off, most people here will agree that dealing with animation can sometimes be a real pain.
Doesn't matter if its from a PAL or NTSC disc. A lot of these DVD's have some serious authoring issues to begin with.
Movies and television are easier to deal with, well usually. The quality control can be all over the place.
This has been a productive thread, well done ladies and germs!
Thanks so much for all the help with this, I am glad I asked the experts instead of trying to figure it out myself! This was not a newbie job and I hope we all learned something, I did since I have some other PAL cartoons hopefully this will work on those too.
Yes Dougster Animation is a difficult one I agree, I have some NTSC that is also similar but never bothered getting it correct. I am going to try Hybrid and see if I can get that going with your help.
Yep live action is usually straight forward but animation as you said sometimes can be a real pain.
Another thing to watch out for is variable frame rates. Sometimes you'll find film parts at 24p fps with 3:2 pullodwn (with underlying character animation at 8 or 16 fps, panning at 24 fps) but other parts at 30p or 30i. I'll sometimes resort to encoding those at 60 fps.