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  1. First of all I wanted to say hi. From what I heard, you guys are a lot kinder and more helpful than the people at Doom9. So I needed help encoding an anime called Gintama, that's why I came here. Okay so here's the deal:

    The source I'm using comes from ISOs. Even though I do have some understanding of how to use Avisynth and MeGUI, I still run into trouble.

    My main problem is de-interlacing:

    1. So here's the video with interlacing:


    2. So I went to the "Filters" tab in MeGUI, and I analysed the video to de-interlace and here were the results:


    3. So based on this shot everything seemed to have worked out, right?:


    4. Not really. Right before the video switches to the next scene the lines look weird and interlaced still:


    5. Here's another shot of where it happens:

    Split second later before switching to the next scene:


    How can I get rid of this? It's really a glaring issue. Even after de-interlacing there is some ghosting that occurs in the video, I can't find where it happens as it can barely be seen. Howerver there is ghosting.

    All help would be appreciated, thanks.
    Last edited by Taizenshū; 21st May 2014 at 14:37.
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  2. Yeah some Anime is very difficult and I haven't found a set way to do it perfectly. Usually you need to de-telecine to remove the pulldown and then de-comb to get rid of that. I usually just use Handbrake as it's fast and easy, but to actually get it perfect would require a lot of time.

    If you want to try my method for these, in handbrake set deinterlace on BOB and detelecine on DEFAULT, and be sure the output fps is on 23.976 and 99% of the time that will do it.

    There is some other filters on HB you could try like animation but I never mess with it.

    I am sure you verified your standard settings are correct such as Top Field first etc. as if they are wrong it will screw things up, but as I said some Anime is very difficult in the process they used.
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  3. Member hech54's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2001
    Location: Yank in Europe
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    Originally Posted by Taizenshū View Post
    First of all I wanted to say hi. From what I heard, you guys are a lot kinder and more helpful than the people at Doom9.
    You heard wrong.
    What's the big deal.....they are just cartoons.
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  4. Originally Posted by TubeBar View Post
    Yeah some Anime is very difficult and I haven't found a set way to do it perfectly. Usually you need to de-telecine to remove the pulldown and then de-comb to get rid of that. I usually just use Handbrake as it's fast and easy, but to actually get it perfect would require a lot of time.

    If you want to try my method for these, in handbrake set deinterlace on BOB and detelecine on DEFAULT, and be sure the output fps is on 23.976 and 99% of the time that will do it.

    There is some other filters on HB you could try like animation but I never mess with it.

    I am sure you verified your standard settings are correct such as Top Field first etc. as if they are wrong it will screw things up, but as I said some Anime is very difficult in the process they used.
    I have tried the different field orders, the Top Field first was the worst out of the three, and the Varying Field first wasn't any different from the Bottom Field first.

    So I'll go ahead and try out the HandBreak method and see what happens. Also is there a way to encode 10bit with Handbreak?

    UPDATE:
    Sadly the Handbreak technique didn't work. It definitely de-interlaced the video, but whenever the characters move, the lines look weird.
    Last edited by Taizenshū; 21st May 2014 at 14:39.
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  5. A video sample is worth a thousand pictures.

    Even after de-interlacing there is some ghosting that occurs in the video
    Then maybe things aren't as they seem and you're going about this all wrong.
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  6. Originally Posted by manono View Post
    A video sample is worth a thousand pictures.
    How do I cut VOBs? So I can upload a sample.
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  7. Open a VOB in DGIndex. Use the '[' and ']' buttons to isolate a small piece. Then File->Save Project and Demux Video. Upload the resulting M2V. You want to search for a section with steady movement, preferably one where every frame is different. Maybe a panning or scrolling shot.
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  8. The problem frames occurred because a field was deinterlaced with simple interpolation. You're probably going to need more sophisticated methods than are available in MeGUI. Ie, you're going to have to learn to use AviSynth. The sample manono is asking for well tell.
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  9. Yeah I have never found a way to completely remove that "Ghosting" in these problem anime (Mega Man Upon a Star is one that comes to mind).

    First it is best to know what we are dealing with. Download MediaInfo, and open the VOB with it and see what it says. That will tell you the correct field order, fps and format so you know the correct source settings to use and no guess work going on.

    You can have a look at the Anime guide and try their plugins:
    http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/avtech/index.html

    Additionally you can "manually" try to find the pattern using TMPGEenc, this is 100% but will take a lot of time.
    http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/tmpg-ivtc.htm
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  10. The sample I just downloaded is "progressive" 23.976 with the 2:3 Pulldown flag. Is this the original file? If so you are going about this all wrong as it is already progressive.
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  11. I just got the first one. It IVTC's fine with this:

    TFM(D2V="Test.d2v").TDecimate(Mode=1)

    It never uses a post-processor (everything field-matches as it should), but there's lots of aliasing. So, use an anti-alias filter on it. Others know more about that than I, but here's the AviSynth section on the antialiasers:

    http://avisynth.nl/index.php/External_filters#Anti-aliasing

    You might try AAA for a start. There was no ghosting. It probably resulted from you letting MeGUI do that 'hybrid' crap with it. Or maybe other samples are different.
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  12. Okay so here it is without AAA():


    Here it is with AAA():


    I gotta say, it does look a lot better and somewhat solves the line transition issue.

    @TubeBar for some reason the VOBs are mixed, although DGIndex fixed the bad transtion.

    Here's what it is:


    Last edited by Taizenshū; 22nd May 2014 at 03:39.
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  13. OK that explains some of the confusion.

    For the VOBs that are progressive 23.976 you don't have to do anything. The 2:3 Pulldown is just a flag and you just need an encoder that will ignore it. For those turn off detelecine and deinterlace and encode it in whatever format you want. If you are doing MPEG2 DVD then I wouldn't encode those at all.

    As for the others that are 29.97 obviously interlaced be sure to use the correct source settings (top or bot fields first) and try the best you can. I never got these perfect though it's at a minimal it doesn't make a huge difference even some videos you buy on iTunes aren't 100% it's just the way some of these are.

    TMPGEnc works very well even for auto INTC and you can also try the "remove ghosting" filter built into it. Unfortunately I have given you all that I know, perhaps there are better experts on here (which I am not) who can help us both in these problem ones.

    You should be fine with progressive ones.
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  14. Deinterlacing attempts of Sample#4 using AviUtl:

    Click image for larger version

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    CmpVideo.mp4
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  15. DGIndex I believe just sets the MPEG flags, obviously you don't want to change VOBs to 23.976 w/ 2:3 pulldown, actually the flag you want to use if it's available in DGIndex would be "3:2 Pulldown on Playback" which is an MPEG flag that is the exact Opposite of the progressive pulldown used on interlaced video. However I have tried that before and it didn't do any better (or different) then auto inverse telecine as that's all it is but for players to optionally use. That still won't solve some of the anime issues like mixed frames w/ weird ghosting.
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  16. It looks like MaverickTse has found something, thanks I am going to try that too!
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  17. AviSynth also has NNEDI3 plugin and that should be good enough for most occasion.
    (field 1, nsize 6, nns 1, qual 1, etype 0, pscrn 2, rfactor 1, cshift 3)

    The alternative methods, AFS, will create Variable Framerate (VFR) video, so please beware.
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  18. I used DgIndex (honor pulldown flags) to build an index file then ran an inverse telecine with TFM().TDecimate(). I saw no problems like those in your sample images.
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  19. Originally Posted by MaverickTse View Post
    AviSynth also has NNEDI3 plugin and that should be good enough for most occasion.
    (field 1, nsize 6, nns 1, qual 1, etype 0, pscrn 2, rfactor 1, cshift 3)

    The alternative methods, AFS, will create Variable Framerate (VFR) video, so please beware.
    Is there any advantage or disadvantage to using VFR? I always use constant for my encodes as never understood VFR since film is always constant.
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  20. Member
    Join Date: Sep 2012
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    The advantage of VFR is that duplicate frames can be removed and replaced with modified time-codes for the one original frame, which improves compression. Plus you can switch between 23.976 and 29.97 or any other frame-rate at will without pull-down or staggered motion. The disadvantage is that many players have problems with it, including audio going out of sync. AVI container support is lacklustre too.
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  21. Thanks for the explanation Ndjamena, sorry to go off topic here.
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  22. Member sekininsha's Avatar
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    Location: Perú
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    @Taizenshū

    apply deinterlaced and antialiasing in your script

    mpeg2source("Sample 3.demuxed.d2v")
    TFM(D2V="Sample 3.demuxed.d2v").TDecimate(Mode=1)
    AAA()


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  23. Member
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    Originally Posted by TubeBar View Post

    Is there any advantage or disadvantage to using VFR? I always use constant for my encodes as never understood VFR since film is always constant.
    VFR is a solution in search of a problem. The "problem" it was created to solve is inconsequential compared to the potential for very serious and real problems that its use can cause. Don't use VFR. 99% of the people who use it don't understand why they are using it or the reason it exists at all. It's as pointless and problematic as VBR in MP3 files, which was created to deal with storage concerns that time and technological progress have rendered moot.
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  24. Hey guys, just wanted to say that I might inactive for awhile. But I'll be back soon.

    I'd like to thank everyone who's been helping me trying to solve the interlacing issue, really means a lot.
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  25. Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    Originally Posted by TubeBar View Post

    Is there any advantage or disadvantage to using VFR? I always use constant for my encodes as never understood VFR since film is always constant.
    VFR is a solution in search of a problem. The "problem" it was created to solve is inconsequential compared to the potential for very serious and real problems that its use can cause. Don't use VFR. 99% of the people who use it don't understand why they are using it or the reason it exists at all. It's as pointless and problematic as VBR in MP3 files, which was created to deal with storage concerns that time and technological progress have rendered moot.
    Yeah that's what I always thought. Sure I remember the old crappy mp3 VBR issue that sums it up for me.
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  26. Hey guys,

    Just wanted to say that so far everything turned out fine. The ghosting, the interlaced lines are all gone.

    There's nothing I want to do about the quality since I think it looks good, and all I want to do is maintain DVD quality. So thanks everyone!
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  27. Originally Posted by Taizenshū View Post
    Just wanted to say that so far everything turned out fine. The ghosting, the interlaced lines are all gone.
    The animated logo in opening.mkv looked pretty bad -- lots of buzzing edges. What script did you end up using?
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  28. What process wound up working the best?
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  29. TFM().TDecimate()
    AAA()

    Those ended up being the best.

    As for the logo, nothing can be done about it. It's even like that on Crunchyroll's website:
    http://www.crunchyroll.com/gintama/episode-17-sons-only-take-after-their-fathers-negat...-510068?p480=1
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