External microphone,which one is best for my panasonic hdc sd 700.

[smrpix]

Is there so much difference in sounds capturing if you take a on board external mic v.s. and self powerde not attached to your camera mic ??

Sorry for your losses.

But, in answer to your question: YES, YES YES! Placement, Placement, Placement!

[Cornucopia]

Also, sorry for your losses. Been there recently, and I feel for you.

AFA on-cam vs. off-cam, I though I had made that pretty clear previously. Given the same KIND/QUALITY of mike, placement is THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR in determining your sound balance, clarity, loudness, & overall quality. This is equivalent to your camera. What if I gave you the choice of putting your camera just outside near the engine vs. sitting in the regular seat in a car looking out the window...which one would be visually more striking? This depends, of course, on your intentions, but I hope you get my poiint.

Scott

[juniorfotograaf]

Hello,

Both of you thanks for your help and support.
I know what both of you mean and that placement of person with camera+mic is the biggest issue.
Butthat is not what is keeping me busy.
I had to explain a bit better i guess.
What i am wondering about in the first place is,are the types of microphone mentioned earlier of the same quality,and just differ in the fact of beeing "on board on the camera" or in your hand/loose of the camera and self powered ?
I am asking this because,if the quality is the same overall,then it doesn't matter which one you buy(taking in consideration that probably in between the named brands there will be a bit of quality difference)
But overall it would mean,that if you go for comfort,you could choose an onboard external mic,so you have a hand free whilst filming,and therefore can react faster if you need to do so whilst hanging out of a train.
(i can imagine if you have both hands full and you need to get in quick for hanging branches or something,that a free hand is better then both hands full

[Cornucopia]

In general, I would say that the Sennheiser brand & line are somewhat better than Rode's (with prices to match), but Rode packs a LOT of quality into what they make, and there is of course a range of variability, so those 2 pairs of options that I mentioned are fairly equivalent.

The other choice is one of compromise: which feature is the one that is the highest priority for YOU? Logistics & Utility? Optimal Sound? Portability & Mobility?...

This is something we cannot decide for you, just give you the facts. And you choice is also greatly affected by what your vision of the style & outcome of this project is supposed to be: are you going for a POV? a "mini-Movie"? How much "effort" do you want to put into this? This includes your planning, budgeting, etc along with the actual physical exertion.
BTW, you don't need to answer these questions to us, just think about them. Knowing fully the why & how beforehand greatly improves the confidence in the outcome, and thus improves the outcome.

Scott

[smrpix]

If you're hanging both hands out of the same window it's not going to be hugely different than mounting the mic on the camera -- fair enough. As far as Rode vs Sennheiser, I agree with cornucopia and add that you won't go wrong either way.

[juniorfotograaf]

@ cornucopia,

which feature is the one that is the highest priority for YOU? Logistics & Utility?
The first is hard to answer because i dont understand what you mean with that,the rest=Optimal Sound?
(for as far you can take that within a certain budget,and as far as you can gou with placing your self for the maximal experience with your targe)
Portability & Mobility?...
(both are very important,i must be able to use the stuff as a single person with ease and not bother other passengers that are in the same coupe/train/bench as i am)
what your vision of the style & outcome of this project is supposed to be: are you going for a POV? a "mini-Movie"? How much "effort" do you want to put into this?
Hope to get better sounds with the movies that i make,again with best possible mic within named budget,what a POv is,i dont know.
But end result for me would be better sound to use with the made film so that i can edit it all in pinnaclestudio 17 and get a dvd as end result.
Where by some friends also get a copy of the finished product.
The intention is not to go pro with this and sel them in lets say a (online)shop.
Just small numbers for friends that are interested in a copy of the holiday we experienced together wereby they had not the chance of filming it themselfs,and want a thing to remeber that vacation with

@smrpix

No hanging out of the window with one hand and a peace of my upper body,and offcourse in my hand the videocamera.
With both hands is to tricky and not allowed because of passing other trains and what else zooms by along the rails,you have to react quick when you travel with 70 to a 100km/h hanging out of a window

[smrpix]

junirfotograaf, in your situation, given the constraints you are placing on yourself -- one person, on a bench, shooting from a train, out a window, no ability to place a mic away from the camera, an unwillingness to "disturb" other passengers, wind noise, engine noise, limited mobility, the need to quickly duck gear in and out of windows -- my recommendation would be, save your money and use the camera mic.

If you can fit some foam over it, that might help.

[Cornucopia]

The degree to which you approach this with "professionalism" is a spectrum: You can be totally UN-professional and just turn on the cam (with it's internal mike & AGC) & do a selfie, or you can be totally professional and get your shoot licensed & sanctioned by the authorities & loco company & have multiple cameras and mikes placed in optimal points with a large crew and a script, big budget, big schedule, etc., or anywhere in between.

I'm not going to go into how I'd do this because it would be totally hypothetical, and without a budget & purpose would be unrealistic. Suffice to say, one has to readjust one's expectations EVERY TIME for each project.

Optimal Sound: I've already commented on clarity, freedom from background noise & distortion, freq. response, naturalness, etc. Particularly in suggesting certain sound elements to be gotten and likely perspectives on where to get them best (aka usually near their sound-making source). This is where knowledge of audio (2:1 rule & polar patterns, 3:1 rule & falloff, dB scale, gain structuring, acoustics/reverb propagation) comes in handy, but you should be able to get by right now with just simple rules of thumb and common sense.

The quandary I see is that you already have said that you though it sounded good. I already said that, while it was better than I expected, it had some problems (and listed them). If you cannot hear those problems, you will have a harder time getting to that next level. Same with visual features such as WB, exposure & contrast/DR, & compression artifacts. But what I'm saying is: for you right now, maybe it doesn't matter. Understanding of those grows with experience. With understanding comes discernment. With discernment comes judgement. And the striving for improving the situation.

You clearly want to be SOMEWHAT professional, otherwise you wouldn't have posted originally. So you need to determine what level that is going to be and be satisfied with that level for now.

It could be that "going to the next level" of audio (which could include off-cam mikes or separate audio, with possible 2nd person helping) is not yet in your comfort zone. So don't do it and be happy with what you're getting now. There are still some simple things I already mentioned that you can do to improve your audio quality (LPCM audio, AGC off/manual levels, muff,...), without really changing your main camera habits. Implement those, and then see if it's enough for now.

Scott

[Steamage]

I spend quite a lot of time shooting video of steam trains. Mostly, I do it from the "land", with my camera on a tripod, following the train through the countryside. I have some experience of shooting from on-board the train, and can say that it is much more difficult to get good video and, especially, good audio. However, it can be done.

The best place for the microphone is just inside an open window, facing the direction of travel. There is a sweet spot where you loose most of the wind noise, but don't get too much of the carriage's noise. You'll have to listen carefully on headphones to find it. If possible, choose the side of the train away from the prevailing wind. The mic will need to be well shielded from the wind. At the very least, you need a good furry cover. Better is a purpose-designed fur-and-foam cover, such as a Rycote Softie. Best is a basket or "blimp". Rode or Rycote make good ones, where the mic is suspended in elastic shock-proof mountings inside the wind-shield.

Where does the train run? If it's a short run up a branch line where you can make several trips in a day, concentrate on getting either good audio or good video on each trip, then edit them together later.

See if you can clamp the mic / wind-shield to the window frame. Not easy, and will need some careful thought and a few experiments. Once the train gets up to speed, spend some time adjusting it to find the sweet spot, then you can spend the rest of the trip concentrating on the video.

LPCM audio needs a separate recorder. HD video cameras all use compressed audio of some kind. As for Manual vs. auto levels - unless you are good at adjusting levels quickly and accurately as you go, or your audio recorder has good built-in "limiters" to drop the level when things get too loud, you might do better sticking with AGC. The alternative is to manually set the level very low, in which case you may not be able to hear much most of the time.

Of the mics mentioned, I have experience of the Rode NTG1 and 2, Rode VideoMic and Senn. MKE300, MKE400 and K6/ME66.
- The VideoMic sounds good and is very good value for money, but insist on the new version with the "lyre" shock mount. The original rubber-band shock mount is not good, and makes creaking noises! It needs good wind shielding. A Rycote Softie might be suitable?
- The only one of these mics that I really don't like is the MKE400. It has a very disappointing, harsh sound, is over-sensitive to wind noise and virtually impossible shield effectively.
- The MKE300 is cheap and cheerful, and though it doesn't have much bass response, that works in your favour when trying to minimise wind noise. It's too slim to fit any of the softie-type wind-shields I've come across, so you're left with just the furry covers.
- Senn MKE600 is basically a K6 power unit + an ME66 short shotgun capsule in a single unit. On paper this should be the best choice. However, you'd have to listen very carefully on good equipment to hear the improvement over the Rode NTGs.
- Therefore, I chose the Rode NTG short shotgun. Because my cam has phantom-power and I was worried about mic length, I went for the phantom-only NTG-1. If I were shopping today, I'd buy the slightly larger NTG-2 which has the option of battery power. I'd also get a short XLR-to-mini-jack lead made up, as well as a normal XLR-to-XLR, so I could use it with any camera. I used to use a Rycote Softie with it, but it wasn't enough on windy days, so I now have a Rycote S-series basket. The new Rycote Super-Shield, which replaces the S-shield, is probably even better.

AKG, Beyer Dynamic and Audio-Technica also make reasonable short shotgun mics, and if you can find one of them at a good price will do this job just as well as a Senn or a Rode. Of course, all of these mics are mono. Stereo is even more complicated. There are whole forums dedicated to stereo audio!

The camera, though the most expensive single part of most people's video kit, is not the only thing you need, and it has the shortest life-span. Good audio gear, like a good tripod, is a long-term investment. Don't be shocked if you spend 50%-100% of the camera price on the rest of the gear

[juniorfotograaf]

Hello Steamage,

Nice to read that there is someone that does the same as i do.
I know all about the difficulty of trying to film on a moving steamtrain,the images are (i think) good enough and in HD,but the sound is something else.
You say that the best place to use a mic is inside hanging on a open window.
That is confusing for me,because if you have a shotgun mic with fur and it is pointed to the loco but on the inside of a window how can it pick up the loco better then it would pickup the noises made by the other passengers in the carriage ??
One thing that is difficult to choose is the side where you want to be on a train trip,as you know if your travelling with such a thing cross country then you will be placed at a specific seat and that will be your place for the whole journey.
So sometimes you will be at the good side and sometimes not
The train trips that i am speaking about are always going from the netherlands to mostly germany and ar 3 or 4 day trips with everything complete for you(trip,hotel,etc etc),and back to the netherlands again off course
Coming back to the mic issue,there is somethng else that gets me confused,if you hang the mic on the inside of a open window,and it gets its power from the camera,how do you connect the mic to camera over that distance ??
(the things deliverd with the most mics,is short and therefore give you a problem when you want the mic at the window and the videocam in your hand a few meters away)
If it comes to adjusting things manually on the cam for sound,then i can say,i'm not a expert and would not have a clue how to do that,nor have i found that magical AGC in the videocam menu,so even if i wanted,i dont know how to adjust such a thing.
Then i'm coming to this peace of sorted out text:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have experience of the Rode NTG1 and 2, Rode VideoMic and Senn. MKE300,and K6/ME66.
- The VideoMic sounds good and is very good value for money, but insist on the new version with the "lyre" shock mount. The original rubber-band shock mount is not good, and makes creaking noises! It needs good wind shielding. A Rycote Softie might be suitable?
- The MKE300 is cheap and cheerful, and though it doesn't have much bass response, that works in your favour when trying to minimise wind noise. It's too slim to fit any of the softie-type wind-shields I've come across, so you're left with just the furry covers.
- Senn MKE600 is basically a K6 power unit + an ME66 short shotgun capsule in a single unit. On paper this should be the best choice. However, you'd have to listen very carefully on good equipment to hear the improvement over the Rode NTGs.
- Therefore, I chose the Rode NTG short shotgun. Because my cam has phantom-power and I was worried about mic length, I went for the phantom-only NTG-1. If I were shopping today, I'd buy the slightly larger NTG-2 which has the option of battery power. I'd also get a short XLR-to-mini-jack lead made up, as well as a normal XLR-to-XLR, so I could use it with any camera. I used to use a Rycote Softie with it, but it wasn't enough on windy days, so I now have a Rycote S-series basket. The new Rycote Super-Shield, which replaces the S-shield, is probably even better.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rode videomic the new version so to speak would be good.(with a deadcat or/and with another cover for the mic.
Rode NTG 1 would fall off i my case because it needs external power that my camera cant give it and therefore is also not able to fit on my videocamera.
Rode NTG 2 could be a choice as it has the option to battery feed it and that it can be camera mounted if you want.
But prices for the fur you mention are quite pricy,the fur cost almost 290 euro's
What this means i have yet to figure out: get a short XLR-to-mini-jack lead made up, as well as a normal XLR-to-XLR.
And also if it of use for me,with this videocamera

Sennheiser MKE 300 is as i see in the hits for NL a discontinued product,so that would always be a second hand item i would be buying with the risc that it does not do as i expect,i wont be able to return it.
(so that would fall of the list if this is true)
Sennheiser MKE 600 could also be an option,as it can be camera mounted and also can be used with a battery,and also can ben used seperate not fixed to the cam.

So in short the list above would hold the best options in it for the purpose i would use it for ?
Correct me if i am wrong,but i think that th things written above are the facts that i have to use to get to a choice.

[Steamage]

Not much I can add, really. Listen to the mics yourself, if you can, ideally by recording on your own camera. Some dealers will let you do this. Don't stint on audio equipment. Buy the best you can afford. A cheaper mic with good wind-shielding may give better results than an expensive mic with just a cheap fur cover. Shop around until you find what you want. Check Thomann in DE and B&H in USA for special offers, or see what you can get second-hand on eBay.

Good luck.

[juniorfotograaf]

How about the questions that i mentioned ?
In my last reply to you, i asked why hang a shotgun mic inside the window,when you want to have the sounds of the loco and not the talking of the passengers.
So what do i miss,that makes you hang a mic inside a window instead of hanging out of the window ?
And then there is this question:
If you hang the mic on the inside of a open window,and it gets its power from the camera,how do you connect the mic to camera over that distance ??
(the things deliverd with the most mics,is short and therefore give you a problem when you want the mic at the window and the videocam in your hand a few meters away)

For the rest i will go and lookup a shop that has the option of testing shotgun mics with my own cam.
I know what you mean,having a expensive mic and a cheap fur is just as hopeless as having a cheap mic and the most expensice fur
I will try and combine the best of both as far as it is within my budget,but it will take some time.
My best option is first buy the mic and a while further on the fur,that keeps the costs in balance

[Steamage]

...why hang a shotgun mic inside the window,when you want to have the sounds of the loco and not the talking of the passengers.

Well, it works for me. You'll need to try it, listening on a pair of headphones. There's a sweet-spot where the mic is out of the draught from the moving train but still hearing the sounds from outside. Don't open the window too much, or the draught will be too strong.

Of course you'll pick up the sounds from the carriage as well. That's inevitable. However, provided you are in a carriage quite near the locomotive (1st, 2nd or 3rd...) the noise of the exhaust will be the loudest sound (when it's working uphill or accelerating from a stop), the creaks and rumbles of the carriage will be the next loudest, and conversations of the other passengers should just be background sounds. If you know your fellow passengers, you could ask them to keep their voices down while you are recording. They might even be recording it themselves.

...If you hang the mic on the inside of a open window,and it gets its power from the camera,how do you connect the mic to camera over that distance ??

Power isn't the problem. Interference, on an unbalanced line, might be. If you are filming from the same window, then you only need a cable about 2m long. Although you might pick up some interference on that, it won't be too noticeable, given all the other noises you'll hear. The only problem might be mobile phone interference. Even so, you can cover that when you edit the footage. If you are moving around with the camera but leaving the mic fixed, then better to have a separate recorder (minidisc, mp3, Zoom-type solid-state recorder, whatever...) and combine the audio and video during editing.

[juniorfotograaf]

Hello again,

It took some time but is just got my rode ntg 2 with sm3 shockmount send to my home.
First impression is good.
Put the shockmount on the jack that came with the videocam and even if not zooming,you cant see the mic in the picture/through the cam lens
(in this case an panasonic hdc sd 700)
But now i have another item to deal with.
The set mic and shockmount comes without cable for connection between mic and videocam
I would say i would need a xlr connection on one side and probably another on the other side.
Problem is i dont know wich is the best option.
Distance between mic connection and camera connection are quite short,but i dont know wich i need and why they are all so long.
Why present a 2 mtr cable if the distance between the 2 is a few centimeters.
Can anyone suggest something with this problem about the right cable that i need ?

[smrpix]

Distance between mic connection and camera connection are quite short,but i dont know wich i need and why they are all so long.
Why present a 2 mtr cable if the distance between the 2 is a few centimeters.

All three of us have already told you NOT to mount the mic on the camera. As you move the mic farther from the camera you need more cable.

[juniorfotograaf]

Ok this is a very newbie item for me.
If i dont want to much cable between the cam and the mic,what would be a universal choice ?
So i can try out the not on cam and on the cam version for myself.
Sorry to that i am the new kid on the block,i just want to try out things and see whats best for me with this newly bought microfoon.

[Cornucopia]

OK, so you went with the on-cam option. Oh well...

There was never an assurance that WITH an added shockmount, etc., your cam wouldn't see whatever mike was attached - particularly something as long and bulky as a shotgun. Zooming will make it better (less angle of view), but zooming out will make it worse. That falls under a similar category as lens hood vignetting.

The answer is to move the mount. Get a hot shoe extension arm.

Note that in Post#26, I mentioned that you would need an XLR-to-Miniplug adapter (usually in the form of a Beachtek DSLR-Pro, or similar, amp). I would assume that since you went with the NTG-2, you would also have gotten that to pair with it. Sounds like you haven't yet. You WILL need something.

When they sell the NTG-2, they don't know where you are going to be plugging it in, so they give you a cable with enough length to handle most eventualities. So buy a shorter cable(s)!
If you do buy something along the lines of a beachtek, you'll need a short XLR(Female)->XLR(Male) cable going from mic to amp input. Then you'll need a 3.5mm (Male)plug -> 3.5mm (Male)plug, going from amp to cam - with the possibility that you might also need a mono->stereo adapter on the end (depending on what your cam is expecting). If you get the beachtek, it comes supplied with a nice, short coiled one (cable). I don't normally recommend coiled, but in this instance, it works out well. You WOULDN'T want to get a coiled XLR cable, though! (too bulky)
BTW, you can buy custom length cables from a variety of suppliers. Get your tape measure out and (after you've attached all the devices) follow the paths, including all the places where you would want to tied down or clump together your cables (to keep them out of your way).

Scott

[juniorfotograaf]

Sorry for the crappy english
Without the cable between the cam and the mic i dont need to zoom to loose the mic out of the image,so thats good.
I got a hot shoe arm that came with the videocam,so there is not a issue there,if you know what i mean.
The rode ntg 2 comes without any cable what so ever,thats my problem now.

[Cornucopia]

XLR->3.5mm is also your problem now.

This can be cheated (simple cable adapter), but you will lose "control" over the sound adjustment, plus it will not totally match in gain/sensitivity (added noise) nor in impedance (possible coloration), plus it will defeat the hum-cancelling feature of the XLR, leaving you open to the possibility of interference (added noise).

Scott

[juniorfotograaf]

I've found 2 possible options for the needed cable.

http://www.bax-shop.nl/xlr-jack/sennheiser-ka-600-microfoonkabel-xlr-f-naar-3.5-mm-min...t-details.html

and

http://www.bax-shop.nl/xlr-jack/klotz-auxmf0090-xlr-3p-female-mini-jack-plug-0.9-m/pro...t-details.html

My question is,wich of those would you choose ?
There are longer cables that i can use,but i think for now,to try out the equipment itself one of those would be the best.
If i come at the point that i want to use the mic further away of my cam,then i can always buy a longer one i guess
Hope to hear from you experts what is best and possibly why.
Thanks in advance for the help.

Gr Floris

[smrpix]

If you're going to get an adapter, you should be able to find a non-name brand for about 1/3 the price.

That being said, I've never had much luck with the simple adapters for the reasons Scott outlined earlier. The sound was iffy and the control was erratic. Once I used a beachtek box, the sound was good, control was predictable, and I've never looked back.

However, if I were in your shoes, starting from scratch in 2014, for about the same price, I would get a portable recorder that accepts XLR directly (such as H4N) and utilize that as a double system standalone, or a passthrough to camcorder, or both.

[juniorfotograaf]

Both cables dont need any adapter.
Plug xlr in the rode ntg 2 and the mini jack in panasonic videocam,thats it.
Here is a link to the bought microfoon:
http://www.bax-shop.nl/shotgun-richtmicrofoon/rode-ntg-2-condensator-richtmicrofoon-me...sm3-shockmount
Adapter for placing the mic above the videocam,came with the panasonic camera.
I hope i understand your reaction well,and that the above is the answer to your adapter reply.
So that just leaves the question of which cable to buy.
Videocamera is here for a few years now,and the rode ntg 2 is here since yesterday.
That is the stuff that i want to try out for now.
Hopefully in understand your last 2 lines of text correctly and that the above is enough as a correct reaction to that.
(will search for what a H4N is and hope that i then maybe better understand what that is and what that should do to the now existing kit that i have)
*edit* found out what that is(a H4N ),adding a external recording device is not an option for the time being,unless i find out how to grow a money tree in the back garden real quick.
The beachtek thing you talk about,would be something like this ?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/672719-REG/Beachtek_DXA_2T_DXA_2T_Universal_Comp...Camcorder.html
That could be a thing to buy in the future,if i find out how to work the thing and if i have a bit more cash to spare.
For now the earlier txt comes to mind:
this is not an option for the time being,unless i find out how to grow a money tree in the back garden real quick.

[smrpix]

Both cables dont need any adapter.

Cable=adapter. We're using different words to mean the same thing.

Yes, that is the beachtek box I mean. I'm suggesting that if you do decide to get one, you're better off going for the H4N (or similar) as the overall price is almost the same and it would give you more capabilities.

My main point was you can find an identical off-brand cable/adapter for far less euros.

[juniorfotograaf]

Both cables dont need any adapter.

Cable=adapter. We're using different words to mean the same thing.

That explains the confussement in some parts

Both cables dont need any adapter.

Yes, that is the beachtek box I mean. I'm suggesting that if you do decide to get one, you're better off going for the H4N (or similar) as the overall price is almost the same and it would give you more capabilities.

Ok the above i get for the most part of it.
Your saying that both are sort of the same,but the H4N would be better as it has more optins to use it.
Ok that i get.
Remains the fact that if i read both of the specs correct,that the H4N is a device that you need to put somewhere and that that beachtek thing has the option to screw it on the cam so you dont need more hands to hold the H4N.
As said,if i decide to go a bit further,then i must first master the now available stuff that i have here,and grow a money tree,before i go a step higher

Both cables dont need any adapter.

My main point was you can find an identical off-brand cable/adapter for far less euros.

Here i my direct neighbourhood there is no shop that sells a cable as i shown in the links.
The only one that can put something together so that it will work with mic and cam needs true adapters to go from one cable sort to the correct one.
And my feeling says that that will screw up the sound more as it needs to pass through different adapter things from the microphone to camera.
So one of the showed items is my best bet i think.
If i understand your reaction well,then both of the shown items are just as good as the other one ?
If that is true,then it just a question for me to choose the one that i think that is the best for now.
And that would then be the shrtest one of the 2,as its price is better
A price of euro 13,70 is about the same as the price in dollars 18,35 USD
If i want it cheaper then i dont know if the quality would be as good as the Sennheiser KA 600 microfoonkabel XLR-F naar 3.5 mm mini-jack.
So if there is no other argument that would say that that cable can be found cheaper(with the same quality) in the netherlands then i will buy that one and start exploring

[Cornucopia]

In my posts above, Cable did NOT equal Adapter.

A Cable is just a cord that runs between 2 things.
An Adapter changes something from one format to another format.

An Adapter plug has one kind of plug/socket (male/female) on one end and a different kind of plug/socket on the other end.
An Adapter cable is a cable with one kind of plug/socket on one end and a different kind of plug/socket on the other end.

Neither the Beachtek, nor the H4n are simple adapters. The beachtek does ADAPT, but it is much more than that: it is an active amplifier/controller. The H4n is a portable audio recorder with level adjustments. It is NOT an Adapter at ALL, and cannot be made to do so (barring using a headphone monitoring out).

Re-read my post #49, because that's where you are at now: being stuck having to go the cheating route. You might not like it - in fact, you might decide to take back the NTG-2 and get the Rode Videomike instead.

If you don't, you'll need a "Balanced XLR Female -> to -> Unbalanced 3.5mm Male adapter cable" of whatever length you have determined.
*Note: The cam will be expecting a STEREO (2ch) input from a TRS plug. A simple adapter cable from a mono mic would also be mono. The cable just mentioned ends in a TS plug. You will need a SEPARATE ADDITIONAL "mono->stereo" adapter plug (or cable), where the TS->TRS. Map the T->T, S->S, and the R->T also. This doesn't truly change mono->stereo, what it does is change stereo->mono, but going in the reverse. Note also, that your 1st cable ends as a male (plug), so the input of the adapter needs to be female (socket/jack), and the output needs to be a plug.

I would not guarantee that you could get the CORRECT item (both of which WILL be necessary to get your signal in correctly, even if not optimally) for the low price you suggested. You likely will NOT find a single cable that does BOTH types of adapting, unless custom-built for you ($$). Even with 2 more common adapter types, would still be looking at $25-35USD (for both prices combined) if bought here in the States.

Scott

[juniorfotograaf]

*Note: The cam will be expecting a STEREO (2ch) input from a TRS plug. A simple adapter cable from a mono mic would also be mono. The cable just mentioned ends in a TS plug. You will need a SEPARATE ADDITIONAL "mono->stereo" adapter plug (or cable), where the TS->TRS. Map the T->T, S->S, and the R->T also. This doesn't truly change mono->stereo, what it does is change stereo->mono, but going in the reverse. Note also, that your 1st cable ends as a male (plug), so the input of the adapter needs to be female (socket/jack), and the output needs to be a plug.


http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/review/panasonic/hdc-sd700/342719/
MY newbie intelligence tells me that the only way to get sound from the xternal mic to the cam is just a 3.5 mm mini-jack connection plugged in the cam and a XLR connection for the ntg 2.
If you see above link then you know what sort of cam i got.
And if i still dont get it with the latest reaction in this thread,then my english is to poor to understand what i miss in the the whole story mentioned above
If that is the case then i am very and
Maybe sticking with the normal on board cam microphones would be the best option for me then,since i miss the know how of doing it better with other/extra stuff

[smrpix]

The H4n is a portable audio recorder with level adjustments. It is NOT an Adapter at ALL, and cannot be made to do so (barring using a headphone monitoring out).

Using headphone monitor out -> camera is exactly what I had in mind.

[Cornucopia]

Not such a good idea, level-wise. Headphone out level is many times mic level.

Scott

[juniorfotograaf]

Hello,

Back again with somethings that confuse me a lot.
I have been reading in on the beachtek audio adapters and what they do and wont do.
I have called and spoken a few people that work in audio/video shops and explained to them what i want to do and why i think would need a beachtek audio adapter for.
The strangest conclusion they have given me.
According to those people,the difference between not having that thing and having that thing
(Beachtek DXA-HDV XLR Adapter or BeachTek DXA 2T),
would be not worth the money because the bonus in sound is to minimal if you use it in the way that i would use it.
(one videocamera and one shotgun mic,with a good cable between them from sennheiser)
I also have reading about the H4N for external recording of sound and that also got me confussed.
I have read more reactions on this device that say that they are not happy with it,then i saw reactions of people that are happy with it.
REasons that came by for not being amused where o.a. slow in starting up,very difficult to set up,to much menus etc etc.
My ideal way for the things that i would want to do with the NTG 2 and my videocamera,is getting sound and film recorded at the same time.
That saves me the hassle of trying to put sound and image together afterwords when editing.
Now to the point,because i dont know who or what to believe anymore.
Do i really need a beachtek device,would it need to be a active XLR adapter that is not cheap,or the the not active version that is a bit cheaper.
And if the above is not the way,then why would you use a device like a H4N,and is that better(for sound then a beachtek device) ?
Can anyone give me a internet link/youtube movie that has a combination of the named things and that uses is for similar goals as i would use it for ?
I have seen about 40 try outs for using the ntg 2,but i have not found one film that eather use a similar camera like me with a ntg2 and a beachtek device or with a H4N.
So i have nothing to see and hear that could tell me if or wat would work for me.
And since it is not a few cents we are talking about,and i got very confusing reactions that tell me leave your rig like it is with just good cables and a deadcat your there,i am back to square one for my feeling.
(so that would mean that i dont need to spend more money for basicly no extra progress/step up the ladder)
Hope that some one can "show me the light"

[smrpix]

You're not going to get the absolute assurances you are looking for.

The only way to know FOR SURE is to try all of the equipment in your circumstances and see what gives you the best sound/convenience/price ratio FOR YOU. If you can rent or borrow some of this gear, that's a good way to go.

From where you stand now, the lowest cost option is to get the XLR to mini which should run you about $5 US. If it's no good, move up to something else.

But even so, next time you shoot, use you camera mic and the external mic, use AGC and manual control, place the mic near the camera and away from it. See what the differences are. There are many variables and no two situations are identical.

I suggested somewhere back in this thread that given the way you were intending to work, your camera mic would not be significantly worse than adding an external. Additionally, Cornucopia has given you excellent technical and practical advice. Steamage really stepped-up with great practical real-world advice that directly relates to your situation.

You've gone about as far as you can go by reading.