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  1. Member
    Join Date: May 2009
    Location: Texas, USA
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    I'm working again with PAL video. I'm capturing through a JVC HR DVS2EU SVHS recorder/player. I'm getting flagging at the top of the video.

    I've always heard that passing through a Panasonic DMR ES15 will fix this, and I thought I'd try it.

    The DVD recorder has to also be PAL, correct?

    This is one I'm looking at on eBay:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-DMR-ES15-DVD-Recorder-w-remote-cables-EXCELLENT-COND...item27e3cee9a0

    I'm in the US and this is a US seller, so I was somewhat leery that this would be NTSC. But in the specs he claims it is Video Output - NTSC, PAL.

    I went to the UK ebay site and looked up their ES15. They all say the same thing.

    So, does it matter at all? This one will do the job for twenty bucks?
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  2. I don't know the answer to your question. But note that "video output PAL", doesn't necessarily mean "video input PAL".
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  3. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: Toronto Canada
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    Originally Posted by StrobeLightEpileptic View Post
    I'm working again with PAL video. I'm capturing through a JVC HR DVS2EU SVHS recorder/player. I'm getting flagging at the top of the video.

    I've always heard that passing through a Panasonic DMR ES15 will fix this, and I thought I'd try it.
    The ES15 is an improvement over my AVT-8710 TBC with this problem, on a number of tapes, particularly with the JVC SR-V101US that did this alot. So, on that, your answer is yes - it should be effective.

    Unfortunately, all my VHS content is NTSC, so I too do not know how the ES15 would fare, or if it would work at all, with PAL.

    If you want to take a gamble on this, and can afford a few bucks, at least you can make good use of it with NTSC if it won't work with PAL. I would say the S&D price would be more than $20 at auction's end. I bought mine for about $40-$45 just last week, so - at this point in time in May 2014 - I would say expect/budget similar if you decide to go for it.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  4. From what I've seen, those Panasonics, in good working order, go for about $70 dollars at ebay these days.
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  5. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    From what I've seen, those Panasonics, in good working order, go for about $70 dollars at ebay these days.
    Then I got lucky last week.

    This is very interesting to me. Since the DataVideo TBC has been discontinued, and since reports of the AVT-8710 having bad Q/C of late are getting more frequent, and more and more posts like this are surfacing around the 'Net, this could actually have an effect on the forces of supply and demand - the laws that govern eBay auction results - and the equilibrium price could balloon in the near future!

    Personally, I would rather buy it now than, say, six months from now.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  6. Originally Posted by PuzZLeR View Post
    this could actually have an effect on the forces of supply and demand
    It already has. They used to go for $20.
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  7. Member
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    Well, I found a manual online. The US players will not play PAL dvds. So, I doubt it would allow for PAL input.

    I'm going to go with a UK seller.

    Thanks all.
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  8. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by PuzZLeR View Post
    this could actually have an effect on the forces of supply and demand
    It already has. They used to go for $20.
    Now I'm thinking of getting a second one.

    I already have 3 of the discontinued ATI 600 USB devices (2 still as backup) for this reason.

    Originally Posted by StrobeLightEpileptic
    Well, I found a manual online. The US players will not play PAL dvds. So, I doubt it would allow for PAL input.

    I'm going to go with a UK seller.
    Glad you got an answer on this. Let us know if there are any PAL issues for some members.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  9. Member
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    This might sound like a pretty dumb question. I'm still looking at sellers over in the UK and hoping to find one willing to ship to the US. But I've been thinking of this and looking at the back of these machines the only input they have is through scart cables.

    The PAL SVHS has scart in/out so I would be hooking this up to the VCR through scart cables. Is that still going to work as far as a pass through mechanism?

    I'm just a bit foggy on the SCART tech.
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  10. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Many sellers on eBay are nice enough to ship outside of their said regions if you ask in advance. You'd be surprised how courteous they can be if you agree to help with the extra S&H if you win the auction.

    I too am a bit foggy on SCART tech as well, but I know for sure there are s-video and/or rca/composite adapters for it. They should work in the connection, but I too have no idea of quality.

    For example, from my experience any s-video to rca/composite adapter, or vice-versa, works, but it degrades the signal.

    Since these adapters not very expensive, you can give it a try on connections you have now before you decide to buy an ESXX. Or, if the passthrough or TBC qualities of it are important enough to you, you may consider a different VCR if the SCART connection is problematic.

    Hopefully someone else chimes in with better info.

    PS: This one seems good.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-Scart-Adapter-3Xrca-S-Video/dp/B00167WZ5O/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
    Belkin is a top notch cable company.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  11. Member
    Join Date: Apr 2009
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    Originally Posted by PuzZLeR View Post
    I too am a bit foggy on SCART tech as well, but I know for sure there are s-video and/or rca/composite adapters for it. They should work in the connection, but I too have no idea of quality.
    To put it simply, SCART connectors are a greater sin to the world than VHS. I'm not sure how an adaptor will fare, but it is should be an improvement, and will probably be acceptable.
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  12. SCART is just composite, s-video, and RGB all in one connector. Not all devices supply all three signal types. Most SCART dapters just route the correct pins on the SCART connector to the different shaped connectors. Beware, the adapters usually don't work in both directions. The ones that do have switches to set the direction.
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  13. Member
    Join Date: Dec 2005
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    I've got a PAL Panasonic DMR-ES15 and it has both s-video in (front panel) and s-video out (rear), so it shouldn't be necessary to use SCART cables for anything. Unless the VCR doesn't have an s-video or composite output of course, then you need the adapter. I haven't tried the TBC properties using the SCART connectors on the ES15.
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  14. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    SCART is just composite, s-video, and RGB all in one connector. Not all devices supply all three signal types. Most SCART dapters just route the correct pins on the SCART connector to the different shaped connectors. Beware, the adapters usually don't work in both directions. The ones that do have switches to set the direction.
    Yes of course, which is why in my link the product is 2 way.

    But I'm confused here.

    @StrobeLightEpileptic: Is the VCR you're wanting to work with equipped only with SCART connectors?

    @ajk: Does the PAL ES15 have SCART?

    (Neither was clear to me. )
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  15. Member
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    Originally Posted by PuzZLeR View Post
    @ajk: Does the PAL ES15 have SCART?
    It does have SCART.
    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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  16. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Wow, didn't realize that NTSC and PAL units differed that much in casing design. Even the color is different - mine in NTSC-land is silver.

    Nice feature for PAL-land that it does have SCART, but neither of us know if the TBC qualities of the ES15 will translate through that connection. It should, but if the VCR also has RCA/composite or s-video, I'd go with either of those instead.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  17. I seem to recall the ES15's TBC is only connected to some of the inputs. So if it doesn't work on one, try another.
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  18. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    I seem to recall the ES15's TBC is only connected to some of the inputs. So if it doesn't work on one, try another.
    On my end, I can confirm on my NTSC unit, the TBC has been effective through, both, the RCA/composite and the s-video inputs, hence my assumption to just go with those with the PAL unit if the VCR has those.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  19. Originally Posted by PuzZLeR View Post
    I can confirm on my NTSC unit, the TBC has been effective through, both, the RCA/composite and the s-video inputs
    Both front and back? I know the TBC works on the rear s-video and composite inputs. But I've never tried the front inputs.
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  20. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by PuzZLeR View Post
    I can confirm on my NTSC unit, the TBC has been effective through, both, the RCA/composite and the s-video inputs
    Both front and back? I know the TBC works on the rear s-video and composite inputs. But I've never tried the front inputs.
    Interesting point - never tried the front ones since the rear ones are more convenient in my chain physically.

    This may be a similar analogy to USB ports on a desktop PC - the rear ones are more effective (more stable) since those are directly affixed to the motherboard. So maybe the TBC is attached only to one part of the unit on the ES15.

    Will try it now. Report back in a bit.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  21. I think I remember sanlyn saying the TBC only worked off of the back inputs.
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  22. Member
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    Definitely works with the front inputs in the PAL version though, that's what I've been using when transferring camcorder tapes (s-video). I'll give the SCART input a test next time I have the VCR set up, can't right now unfortunately.
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  23. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Reporting back to confirm that the front unit inputs have the effect of the TBC. I've tried with 3 different known difficult tapes, with both the RCA/composite input, and the s-video input. All three tapes had correction on playback with the rear, and front, inputs (when they were all over the place without any TBC in the chain).

    So, it looks like this is the case for PAL and NTSC models.

    I just got this unit, and I'm getting more, and more, impressed with it day by day. These were - honestly - very difficult tapes previously, now a breeze with the ES15 on all my capture VCRs. I've been around the capture scene for a long time (too long), so you can take me serious when I say that I recommend this unit.

    Now to go back to my last setup. I had to physically twist things around to test this. I'm surprised my chain didn't fall apart...
    Last edited by PuzZLeR; 1st Jun 2014 at 03:36.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  24. Member
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    Hey folks, haven't been around in a bit. Interesting discussion. PuzZler: The VCR I'm working with is a PAL JVC HR-DVS2EU It has s-video out on the back, (along with SCART in and out), but my problem was the s-video in on the DMR-ES15. There was none. The Panasonic only had s-video out on the back.

    Now, I've seen myself through eBay photos that the DMR has s-video in on the front, and per this discussion I'm aware that I can use that for the filtering capabilities of the machine.

    My problem is that I can't find a UK seller willing to ship to the US. It ain't me, babe: I have perfect feedback - I'm a good buyer and I will pay extra shipping. I actually bought one and the seller reported that he shipped it. But he didn't. No problem, he refunded my money. But he put the unit up on auction again, this time saying UK buyers only.

    The other sellers currently up selling these machines either won't ship international, or they want the buyer to pick-up, or their machines are not working and being sold only for parts.

    Hey, if anybody in the UK wants to buy this and resell it to me, let me know:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331276768755?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    Thanks.
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  25. Why not have it delivered to a freight company in Britain and have them ship it to you? I'm sure the seller would OK that if you ask him.
    Last edited by manono; 6th Aug 2014 at 04:16.
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  26. I would keep a Followed Search for the model number and message any newly listings regardless of whether they say UK-only in the "Ships To" field, unless they explicitly typed in the listing description itself "no international". Often sellers are perfectly willing to accommodate if you make it clear you're fully aware that shipping will cost a pretty penny; they're just too lazy to find out the international shipping rates beforehand when chances are someone domestic will purchase it.
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  27. Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    Often sellers are perfectly willing to accommodate if you make it clear you're fully aware that shipping will cost a pretty penny
    Exactly. In this scenario, I have still never been refused after a polite message to the seller. However, regardless of whether they are willing to ship or not, I still recommend using a good mail forwarding service instead, as I've found the shipping rates better. Simply notify the seller of the mail forwarding company's address to ship to. Problem solved.

    I recommend Alfasent for shipping of UK items.
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  28. Member
    Join Date: Apr 2014
    Location: Germany
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    while that ES10 and 15 is not bad alot of people in the german vhs capture scene moved to Panasonic DVD Recorders with HDMI Out and a HDMI Capture Card (for example blackmagic intensity pro) - you get perfect captures, some jitter correction and alot of inputs on the DVD/HD Recorder. I am using it myself and getting great results compared to other "solutions".
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  29. I have 2 off those black ones (pal version )and one es10 silver one (pal also). I found some differences between pal and NTSC recorders all pal ones have scart connector rgb/se/video and possible component (rare) also some older Panasonic models pal didn't have progressive output (e60-e100) You can connect svideorecorder trough rgb (only trough 1 back scart connector)to DVD recorder (es 15 and es10 support this ) but this only works if you record on the machine and not in passtrough the picture quality (measuring only the input difference same template regardless of their recording capability more block than the competitors) diference is night and day.Regarding their tbc capabilities all of the panasonics that i used e es series all had it and onone mine project here on vhelp e60 beat the younger brothers es10/15 that couldn't stabilize e60 did it. Overall es15 can cope better than es10 with minor "artifacts "
    Last edited by mammo1789; 20th Aug 2014 at 16:01.
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  30. Originally Posted by Opticum View Post
    alot of people in the german vhs capture scene moved to Panasonic DVD Recorders with HDMI Out and a HDMI Capture Card
    Do they not get blown-out whites with PAL sources like I do with NTSC using the DMR-ES25's HDMI output?

    You can see on the histogram below it's hitting the hard limit of 255 in YUV. It doesn't happen all the time, but inevitably on a 6-hour tape of TV content, there will be some scenes that bloom. Changing the input setting from "Lighter" to "Darker" doesn't help; it simply clips superblacks.

    Click image for larger version

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