VideoHelp Forum
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2
FirstFirst 1 2
Results 31 to 48 of 48
Thread
  1. Some people might be thinking - well the shadow detail loss isn't that bad...Maybe only pixel peepers will notice...

    But considering x264 looks like the source at about 65-75% the size of MC without those problems

    Yes, I'm sure you consider those outputs are fine for most people. But there is undeniable texture loss, even at 100%. It's the achilles heel of MC

    And when you actually have high content complexity, lots of motion - the problems and encoder deficiencies are revealed. Surely you can see the difference here ?


    x264 10Mb/s
    Click image for larger version

Name:	x264 10Mbps.png
Views:	188
Size:	1.79 MB
ID:	24435

    VRD 10Mb/s
    Click image for larger version

Name:	vrd 10Mbps.png
Views:	179
Size:	1.60 MB
ID:	24436
    Quote Quote  
  2. Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post

    i also assumed that h264 and x264 was the same thing, clearly not, so what do you suggest i use, given i edit the video and usually add a title and sometimes an ending credit, which VRD does.

    i downloaded a trial of Sony Movie Studio platinum to see what that is all about, as i also want to add music tracks and probably some little transitions between scene changes to my files if they are needed, and VRD doesnt do that, all i can do is add a text frames between scenes.


    If you use enough bitrate, almost anything will look good. But why use a file 1.3-1.5x the size if you don't have to ? And even at "100%" quality you can see problems with shadow areas in VRD (not VRD's fault, it's Rovi/MC's fault) (or at least some people can see those problems , you have to trust me if you can't see it) . But those types of encoding issues are almost digital "signatures" that indicate a mainconcept AVC encoder was used

    As an editor , vegas is pretty good . It too is bundled with mainconcept for AVC and MPEG2 (both stripped down versions as well, MPEG2 is fine, AVC not so much), as well as Sony AVC - but there are workarounds to use other encoders such as frameserving (debugmode frameserver), lossless intermediates
    Last edited by poisondeathray; 10th Apr 2014 at 02:02.
    Quote Quote  
  3. yes i see the difference in your outputs, both with my file and the one posted above me, because it was pointed out to me, but who would be looking for those deficiencies anyway.

    the main thing for me is that i edit my camera files and they are output without re-encoding the video, and if i add titles/credits or text frames only they are encoded, and these files are my archived copies.

    how do you see the source file overall, given it was shot using a panasonic HDC-SDT750 camera, i think its very good compared to many other cameras in the same class.

    what encoders does Adobe Premier use for dvd Mpeg2 and AVC as that is what my son uses at home, at uni they have to use FCP on their macs.

    the thing is, i dont need all the bells and whistles that come with the cost of some of these more advanced editing tools, but i still want as good as i can get when i output.

    TMPGE and VRD Mpeg2 outputs i am happy with given i dont do it very often.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 10th Apr 2014 at 02:47.
    Quote Quote  
  4. Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    yes i see the difference in your outputs, both with my file and the one posted above me, because it was pointed out to me, but who would be looking for those deficiencies anyway.
    What's not shown here is the motion issues and flickering quality with I,P,B allocation, since it's a still frame comparison

    But with high enough bitrates, most people won't see these types of issues. But most people think youtube provides great quality . IMO That's not an excuse to give them subpar quality . Most people usually want to display their work in the best possible "light", not be subject to compression issues

    the main thing for me is that i edit my camera files and they are output without re-encoding the video, and if i add titles/credits or text frames only they are encoded, and these files are my archived copies.
    Yes, the smart rendering is the biggest reason for using videoredo . All the other manipulations are usually performed in other software because they are better at it , including resizing, pre-encoding prep

    how do you see the source file overall, given it was shot using a panasonic HDC-SDT750 camera, i think its very good compared to many other cameras in the same class.
    It's ok in daylight conditions



    what encoders does Adobe Premier use for dvd Mpeg2 and AVC as that is what my son uses at home, at uni they have to use FCP on their macs.
    Mainconcept/Rovi as well. FCP uses Apple AVC
    Quote Quote  
  5. so Premier has the same encoder as VRD, I would have thought it would be better.

    VRD is soon to release a major upgrade to version 5 of the TV Suite program, and with it has support for importing ProRes, which is the format i will be shooting in when i upgade in several months, and it will sport several enhanced encoding features that will improve outputs, so that is something to look forward to.

    i know if VRD used a better encoder for HD video it will cost more to buy, and i have already asked about their commercial software (broadcast) but its not available, and i wish they had a pro-sumer version that gave us a few added features and better encoder, even if it cost more.

    i do know one thing with that 1080/50p m2ts file you have, when encoded to 720/50p m2ts or mp4 using the new v5 edition the output bitrate using the built in "Quality Mode" preset outputs the file @ 15Mbps where version 4 using an identical profile it puts out around 11Mbps, so i dont know if thats a good thing or not, but that is a 4Mbps increase for some reason, but the Devs have told me that the bitrates should be almost identical, but v5 should be better quality.

    i will be tackling them about it when i get back from my 4 weeks shooting travel videos in asia starting next tuesday.

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    But most people think youtube provides great quality . IMO That's not an excuse to give them subpar quality . Most people usually want to display their work in the best possible "light", not be subject to compression issues
    when i return from asia i want to get a professional video channel, either Vimeo as i have now (free) or youtube.

    i want to upload my travel videos in 720/50p m2ts or mp4 so they stay on their servers the way i upload them, so people should be able to download the original file, and not the hacked version that they re-encode it to, which right now vimeo it is 720/25p @ 2Mbps or less.

    i prefer using vimeo over youtube, but youtube may have better support, so i will be looking at youtube more before making my decision.

    cheers
    Last edited by glenpinn; 10th Apr 2014 at 11:18.
    Quote Quote  
  6. Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    so Premier has the same encoder as VRD, I would have thought it would be better.
    Mainconcept packages and licenses a number of different variations on its codecs and encoders. They seem to keep it deliberately confusing so you can't make an absolute apples to apples comparison. My guess is that large professional-market oriented developers such as Adobe are able to demand a more premium version than some smaller companies, and create their own customizations -- but that is just a guess.
    Quote Quote  
  7. i meant to ask before, what is the best encoder out there for converting my 1080/50p camera files, by that i mean not so much to dvd Mpeg2, but to 720/50p m2ts or mp4.

    Originally Posted by smrpix View Post
    My guess is that large professional-market oriented developers such as Adobe are able to demand a more premium version than some smaller companies, and create their own customizations -- but that is just a guess.
    i would have thought VRD does something similar as well, i mean tweak the encoder somehow, especially when they say the new v5 will output better quality at around the same bitrate.

    anyway, for what i shoot, and for what VRD offers me, i am pretty happy with it overall, and the best thing about it is the smart rendering, allowing me to edit my camera files, and output them back to 1080/50p m2ts or mp4 without re-encoding, or if i add titles, credits or text frames during scene changes, those are the only bits that are encoded, so these edited files take just seconds to output, saving so much time.

    i also love their editing tool, and heir forum is brilliant, no other software company does it any better than VRD, if you post up a topic, one of the Devs or Admins will be there soon to help, and Dan Rosen especially is the guy i deal with over there.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 10th Apr 2014 at 11:35.
    Quote Quote  
  8. Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    i meant to ask before, what is the best encoder out there for converting my 1080/50p camera files, by that i mean not so much to dvd Mpeg2, but to 720/50p m2ts or mp4.
    Best h.264/AVC encoder, several years in a row, according to many, many , many tests is x264. I can't begin tell you how comprehesive the testing has been done on this subject - objective measures (SSIM, PSNR), subjective measure, double blind tests. It really is the "gold standard" , the benchmark to what every other AVC encoder is measured against. Even the new generation HEVC/h.265 encoders are measured against it

    It's not as if I'm trying to sell you something - It's free and open source, many GUI's available e.g. handbrake, megui, ripbot etc... But if you use it commercially above a certain number of units (maybe you're pressing "x" number of BD's), you need a license as well . x264 licensing costs are very low compared to other products with MPEG-LA


    i know if VRD used a better encoder for HD video it will cost more to buy, and i have already asked about their commercial software (broadcast) but its not available, and i wish they had a pro-sumer version that gave us a few added features and better encoder, even if it cost more.
    I can tell you right now, there is nothing they can tweak with the mainconcept/rovi encoder that will put it on a level close to x264. They can license the full version with all the switches and options - It is improved to what they have now - but still not the best . That version still needs about 20-25% more bitrate to achieve x264 level. But incorporating the full unlocked SDK version for AVC would probably increase vrd price 10-20x - easily

    Videoredo is great at what it is supposed to do - smart rendering / cuts type editing. I've used it for years in the toolkit . IMO, one of the "must haves" and highly recommended. But not my tool of choice for encoding , other manipulations, other prep work. Some people try to do everything with one program - well that's not how it works in video. Just like you have a hammer for nails, screwdriver for screws - there are different tools that are better suited for certain tasks

    IMO - why spend all this money on external recorders, only to dumb down the final product ? No that's a bit extreme statement - it's not really that bad - and if you throw a lot of bitrate at it the issues dissapear - it's just that there are readily available free products that are better at encoding
    Quote Quote  
  9. i was using handbrake and sometimes Xmedia Recode for converting my 1080/50p avchd to an mp4 container, or for lowering to 720/50p mp4 but all it does in encode, and i found it Quality RF system somewhat confusing to use.

    so if i was to use VRD to edit my files, add titles/credits etc, then smart render it back to m2ts or mp4, then take it into handbrake for the other conversions to 720/50p, would that give me a better outcome, because the way it is, my 1080/50p source files are what they are, and without buying all these other expensive tools that have features i dont need, what is the best workflow in my scenario.

    the quality and output settings in handbrake is what seems to stump a lot of people, especially using their normal or advanced profiles.

    also, i have a lot of respect for some of you guys in here for all the help you offer, so whats your opinion about using cameras that record in 220Mbps ProRes and Raw CinemaDNG (1080/2.5k/4k) and other such formats (i want to upgrade to a BlackMagic camera later on) and then have to process that and eventually have to convert it back to 1080p in one of the supported playback format for tv.

    I ask because i dont see the point in shooting those formats, then use something like VRD and its h264 encoder to rip it apart quality wise, if x264 is far superior, so i figure i am going to have to look more seriously at using better software in the future.

    cheers

    edit: i just love the smart rendering feature in VRD, and would miss it, is there any other software that uses it.

    EDIT 2: just messing about with MeGUI & RipBot at the moment, all i see is getting the RF & CQ settings right, but so far with RipBot if i set the CQ level at its highest setting of 16 in the dropdown list (maybe this is all it requires) the source file outputs at just on 20Mbps where the source is 22.5, if i use CQ18 it is only 15Mbps.

    i also manually input a CQ of 14 and got an output of 23Mbps, so clearly 16 would be the desired setting for this source file.

    the AC3 @ 256br audio from my Rode mic is converted to AAC @ 128br, not sure if there is a way i can maintain that.

    it seems that these 2 tools, including handbrake and Xmedia Recode all use this RF/CQ type quality setting, so i figure this is a trait of x264 over h264.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 10th Apr 2014 at 21:55.
    Quote Quote  
  10. Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    also, i have a lot of respect for some of you guys in here for all the help you offer, so whats your opinion about using cameras that record in 220Mbps ProRes and Raw CinemaDNG (1080/2.5k/4k) and other such formats (i want to upgrade to a BlackMagic camera later on) and then have to process that and eventually have to convert it back to 1080p in one of the supported playback format for tv.
    Much better than AVCHD. But much higher storage requirements. The amount you can grade and push the footage with raw is amazing. AVCHD just falls apart. At "face value", many people won't see large differences with say prores vs. AVCHD. Only if you have high complexity material that taxes the compression , or if you do some post work like grading will AVCHD issues arise



    I ask because i dont see the point in shooting those formats, then use something like VRD and its h264 encoder to rip it apart quality wise, if x264 is far superior, so i figure i am going to have to look more seriously at using better software in the future.
    It depends what that goal is. What display devices / targets are. For aquisition, you generally want to go as high as quality possible - because it's downhill from there. Every manipulation you do to it can cause some degredation .

    VRD is great, but limited - I can say I use it much for final products because you usually need to do some minor adjustment with color, levels, filtering. That requires re-encoding. It's useless if you acquire in higher end formats. Those are I-frame formats or image sequences so you can cut with frame accuracy anyways . Long GOP is what prevents you from doing that with "usual" consumer compression formats . And "Smart rendering" isn't really applicable to raw formats like CinemaDNG (they aren't compressed)

    edit: i just love the smart rendering feature in VRD, and would miss it, is there any other software that uses it.
    solveigmm video splitter , tmpgenc smart renderer . They actually handle more formats than vrd, which is limited to MPEG2 and some subsets of AVC

    A little known fact, but vegas actually smart renders AVCHD (it's a bit wonky and sometimes difficult to "convince" it to work)




    i also manually input a CQ of 14 and got an output of 23Mbps, so clearly 16 would be the desired setting for this source file.
    I don't know why you are so fixated on achieving that approximate bitrate ? It's probably the wrong way to go about it.
    24Mb/s by a fixed GOP hardware recorder will not be the same as a software encoder. Hardware encoders are "dumb" . They don't fluctuate much according to scene complexity. Yes, they can use VBR by are very limited, quality very poor compared to a decent software encoder at the same bitrate


    the AC3 @ 256br audio from my Rode mic is converted to AAC @ 128br, not sure if there is a way i can maintain that.
    You can pass use audio pass through in most programs (stream copy)



    it seems that these 2 tools, including handbrake and Xmedia Recode all use this RF/CQ type quality setting, so i figure this is a trait of x264 over h264.
    x264 is a h.264/AVC encoder implementation. It's a "flavor" of AVC encoder, just like Mainconcept AVC, Apple AVC, Nero AVC etc....

    CRF is a method of 1pass rate control, superior to 1pass ABR. It delivers roughly average quality in inverse relationship to the CRF value (lower yields better quality, higher filesizes. At "0" it's lossless with huge filesizes, because the "losslessness" is with respect to an decoded, uncompressed stream)
    Last edited by poisondeathray; 11th Apr 2014 at 00:37.
    Quote Quote  
  11. ok so is it fine to use VRD to edit and add titles etc to my 1080/50p files (retain as my archive copy) then smart render back to 1080/50p m2ts, then use one of those other tools (RipBot/MeGUI/Handbrake) to re-convert to whatever other format/size i need using those RF & CQ settings.

    now, how do i know which quality factor is right for a given output to gain the best possible quality from it, say output to 720/50p mp4 if the original file was 24Mbps.

    also, those 3 tools i mentioned are pretty easy to use, handbrake was what i used for a couple of year before VRD, but is one any better than the rest ?

    i dont like Solveigmm, but i recently bought a copy of Video Mastering Works 5 and Authoring Works 5, and just found out just now that it uses x264 and i thought it uses mainconcept for all its encoding, so i am having a play with it right now, and i also downloaded a trial of their smart renderer as well to try.

    the problem with TMPGE mastering works is it wont let me add titles and credits (that i am aware of)

    also, with tmpge, should i use VBR (Constant quality) which does a single pass, by setting a maximum bitrate and then use the slider to set the quality factor, or use VBR ?

    i also assume you dislike GPU type encoding.

    EDIT: just started using TMPGEnc Smart Renderer and it allows to add Titles or text to any part of the video
    Last edited by glenpinn; 11th Apr 2014 at 01:44.
    Quote Quote  
  12. Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    ok so is it fine to use VRD to edit and add titles etc to my 1080/50p files (retain as my archive copy) then smart render back to 1080/50p m2ts, then use one of those other tools (RipBot/MeGUI/Handbrake) to re-convert to whatever other format/size i need using those RF & CQ settings.
    Yes, that's a good use of VRD - "cuts type editing" . If you have to re-encode (e.g. resize), then I would use something x264 based

    now, how do i know which quality factor is right for a given output to gain the best possible quality from it, say output to 720/50p mp4 if the original file was 24Mbps.
    First you need to clarify what the goals and target(s) are. Some devices need specific settings and have restrictions for compatibility. e.g. blu-ray, ipads , tv's etc... If it's just a "generic" computer file you have more leeway

    Basically you do some tests to see about what value fits your needs. For most people , somewhere between CRF 16-22 yields good quality with acceptable filesize trade offs. So it depends what your goals are. Maybe you wanted a very high quality file, then select something lower . Maybe you wanted something just for viewing purposes, but smaller filesize. In general, the slower the preset settings, the better compression you get (at a given CRF value, the filesize will usually decrease, but the visual quality will be roughly similar) . Using 2pass, the slower presets will yield a higher quality file at the same filesize. But there are huge diminishing returns . For example you might get 4-5% better compression but require 10x longer to achieve it.

    You generally use 2pass bitrate mode when you have a set bitrate in mind. e.g. fixed capacity limitations like BD optical disc, or streaming requirements (bandwidth) . Otherwise for x264, CRF mode produces very similar quality to 2pass mode, but in 1 pass

    also, those 3 tools i mentioned are pretty easy to use, handbrake was what i used for a couple of year before VRD, but is one any better than the rest ?
    Better in what way? They use the same encoder; but the preprocessing, settings used might be different. If they used the same x264 version, the same processing, same settings - you would get identical results because they are just GUI's . The encoder used is only part the picture. Many things go into preprocessing. For example that's what compressionists do - their job isn't just to push buttons and pick encoding settings, they optimize sections for compression, do segment encodes, filter, etc..

    I alluded to some of this earlier , when mentioning doing the resize to 1280x720 first to test the encoders. To elminate that variable. For example, if you used a sharper kernal for resizing (e.g. lanczos 4) vs. something with less ringing, softer (e.g. bilinear), the results wouldn't be testing the encoders, the results would be "polluted" by different resizing algorithms. Even before touching the encoder, one would look sharp , the other more blurry . Of course vrd doesn't tell you which algorithm or let you choose one. But there are situations where you might need to use one over another. For example, you wouldn't use a sharp algorithm when making an interlaced DVD, you would actually lowpass it - some of that was discussed in one of your other threads

    I would say handbrake is popular. Ripbot is probably the easiest to use. Megui is more difficult, but more comprehensive. Many GUI front ends have a command line box that you can access more advanced settings. x264 is a highly configurable encoder - you can customize the settings to your specific scenario and content but you can stick with the defaults / presets/ tunings to simplify things at least to start with. I prefer to use commandline because it's faster (many of the gui's do analyzing tasks, various other things)
    http://mewiki.project357.com/wiki/X264_Settings




    also, with tmpge, should i use VBR (Constant quality) which does a single pass, by setting a maximum bitrate and then use the slider to set the quality factor, or use VBR ?
    Not sure, I don't use tmpgenc , at least none of the new versions




    i also assume you dislike GPU type encoding.
    The current state of GPU encoding (not partial assist , where some operations are run on the GPU, but mostly CPU encoding) is it's still significantly worse than a good CPU encoder. We're into 6-7th generation GPU encoders, and they still suck. Many of the tasks are just not parallelizable, or the penalty is too great, there are latency / memory issues with the interconnects. The speed is there, especially with intel quicksync, but quality and consistency issues remain (sometimes you get mixed up frames, or just random errors) . IF you need some quick turnaround, don't care about compression too much, maybe for a iphone or portable device - that's when they can be useful
    Last edited by poisondeathray; 11th Apr 2014 at 02:16.
    Quote Quote  
  13. ok thx a lot, just tried TMPGEsmart renderer to add titles, it sux bad, like it can only overlay the text onto the actual video frames and you set the duration and have it fade in and out, and thats fine if you want to overlay text at points during the video.

    it also drags my cpu down a lot while trying to create the Titles, and will often hit 60 to 100% while i am changing the fade in or out durations, which i have never had happen like that, where VRD uses nothing because creating the title box does not involve the video during the process.

    VRD lets me cut my video into segments and add them to the joiner list, create my text boxes to put between each segment, add the title to the start and a credit at the end, then output the video to 1080/50p m2ts or mp4 and the smart rendered kicks in, and only encodes the frames with the titles.

    might just use VRD to edit and add titles etc, and smart render the video for archiving, and use RipBot (very simple to use) or maybe MeGUI or handbrake to re-render or re-size as you suggested, as long as i can sort out the quality settings.

    i used to use Intel Quick Sync until i started using VRD which up until now does not support GPU based encoding, but it will support Quick Sync in the new version 5.

    cheers
    Quote Quote  
  14. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    First you need to clarify what the goals and target(s) are. Some devices need specific settings and have restrictions for compatibility. e.g. blu-ray, ipads , tv's etc... If it's just a "generic" computer file you have more leeway
    ok my first objective is to shoot the video and edit/add titles/credits and output that video as close as i can to the original footage from the camera, which is being done using VRD, and retain this video for archiving.

    i never output to bluray as most of the video for myself and others, is played back on HD tv direct from a usb powered portable hdd, usb stick etc, thru the tv's built in media player.

    with HD tv's, the playback support can vary depending on the brand and/or age, and some still being the lower 1366x768 res HD tv's which is more restricted as to what formats can be played.

    some HD tv's will support 1080/25p in either m2ts or mp4, many support 720/50p and 720/25p m2ts or mp4, but not many that i am aware of will support 1080/50p m2ts or mp4, unless played thru a hdd based media player such as the WD Live models that i use on all our HD tv's in my home.

    once i have my edited source file, i generally output a copy to 720/50p m2ts (around 12Mbps) for myself and retain it with the source file (it meets bluray spec i believe) and for others they get a copy of those 2 files, plus a copy in 1080/25p mp4, and another copy to 720/50p mp4 just in case any tv they play the videos on dont support m2ts files.

    i just do it for compatibility with most types of playback devices, however i have had to output some videos to 720/25p mp4 at lower bitrates so they can play them on their mobile phone for example.

    i have never had anyone request a bluray, mainly because nobody seems to own a bluray player, and most people just plug a portable hdd into their tv and play direct from that, and the odd person (2 so far) has asked for a copy burnt to dvd for rellies who still have older tv's and a dvd player.

    I could continue using VRD for what it is really worth, but introducing x264 into this has me rethinking my workflow.
    Quote Quote  
  15. Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    First you need to clarify what the goals and target(s) are. Some devices need specific settings and have restrictions for compatibility. e.g. blu-ray, ipads , tv's etc... If it's just a "generic" computer file you have more leeway
    ok my first objective is to shoot the video and edit/add titles/credits and output that video as close as i can to the original footage from the camera, which is being done using VRD, and retain this video for archiving.
    Right, and those are just appended titles, not overlays - so that's a good use of vrd because the main video segment is essentially "original" quality




    i never output to bluray as most of the video for myself and others, is played back on HD tv direct from a usb powered portable hdd, usb stick etc, thru the tv's built in media player.

    with HD tv's, the playback support can vary depending on the brand and/or age, and some still being the lower 1366x768 res HD tv's which is more restricted as to what formats can be played.

    some HD tv's will support 1080/25p in either m2ts or mp4, many support 720/50p and 720/25p m2ts or mp4, but not many that i am aware of will support 1080/50p m2ts or mp4, unless played thru a hdd based media player such as the WD Live models that i use on all our HD tv's in my home.
    But even those have restrictions. And many of the WD models cannot play 1080p50 properly (stuttering). Basically any device will have restrictions, short of a computer because they have hardware decoder chips. The media players today aren't compatible when certain encoding settings or profiles of AVC (e.g. 10bit AVC) are used. Some have weaker chips and will have worse navigation with FF/RW functions unless you specify shorter GOP intervals (basically tighter IDR to IDR intervals or seek points)


    once i have my edited source file, i generally output a copy to 720/50p m2ts (around 12Mbps) for myself and retain it with the source file (it meets bluray spec i believe) and for others they get a copy of those 2 files, plus a copy in 1080/25p mp4, and another copy to 720/50p mp4 just in case any tv they play the videos on dont support m2ts files.
    It's not BD compatible unless you specifically used switches to make it compatible. There are specific settings that must be adhered to as to not to break the BD specs. (for example, GOP length, buffer size) . Although many hardware players can play out of spec streams, strict authoring software and stream analyzers will reject them.


    i just do it for compatibility with most types of playback devices, however i have had to output some videos to 720/25p mp4 at lower bitrates so they can play them on their mobile phone for example.
    In general, most devices these days are fine if you stay High@L4.1 or lower




    I could continue using VRD for what it is really worth, but introducing x264 into this has me rethinking my workflow.
    The Mainconcept/Rovi encoder has weaknesses that are well documented that will be visible in those situations I described earlier. - But it is fine if you give it some extra bitrate. If you have a studio lit indoor interview scene with no shadows, low motion, it will do fine even at lower bitrates
    Quote Quote  
  16. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Right, and those are just appended titles, not overlays - so that's a good use of vrd because the main video segment is essentially "original" quality
    yes, i wasnt sure what you actually called it, but i prefer it this way because i think its a better way to introduce the video, before it starts playing.

    when i tried the transparent text overlay using that tmpge smart render tool, it was difficult to get text color and size right, and place it in a suitable location where it did not impose on the video, and could be clearly read, did not like it at all, and it dragged my intel 3770 cpu right down just creating that text on the timeline, and why pay for tmpge smart render when i have a better tool that retains all my video quality, and gives me a much easier title creation tool as well, so VRD will not be lost in all this, that is until the day i switch from AVCHD to ProRes and/or Raw CinemaDNG (which i assume you would prefer over ProRes)

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    But even those have restrictions. And many of the WD models cannot play 1080p50 properly (stuttering). Basically any device will have restrictions, short of a computer because they have hardware decoder chips. The media players today aren't compatible when certain encoding settings or profiles of AVC (e.g. 10bit AVC) are used. Some have weaker chips and will have worse navigation with FF/RW functions unless you specify shorter GOP intervals (basically tighter IDR to IDR intervals or seek points)
    i know many hdd based media players cant cope with 1080/50p whether its mp4 or m2ts, and i have been thru many brands, but my 1080/50p m2ts files are high @ 4.1 and i never alter that, and my WD Live players manage them perfectly, thats why i use them, and recommend to everyone because i know they support every format i output to, and i always make people aware that if they dont use a hdd based media player then going thru the usb port on their HD tv will most likely have limitations as to container/codec/resolution support depending on the age and quality of the tv, and that is why i give them those 4 outputs because at least one is going to have support thru the tv, or via most hdd media players.


    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    It's not BD compatible unless you specifically used switches to make it compatible. There are specific settings that must be adhered to as to not to break the BD specs. (for example, GOP length, buffer size) . Although many hardware players can play out of spec streams, strict authoring software and stream analyzers will reject them.
    i have never looked into it that much TBH as i never output to bluray, i just output to 720/50p m2ts (and mp4) more for playback support thru the tv or media player but all i knew was that 720/50p was a bluray spec resolution and framerate, where 1080/50p is not.

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    In general, most devices these days are fine if you stay High@L4.1 or lower
    yes, as previously mentioned, WD Live seems to manage well.

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    The Mainconcept/Rovi encoder has weaknesses that are well documented that will be visible in those situations I described earlier. - But it is fine if you give it some extra bitrate.
    i just wish i had known more about the differences between Mainconcept/Rovi and x264 as encoders, and found out earlier that VRD uses Mainconcept.

    i will continue using VRD for the initial editing and smart rendering, and for any Mpeg2 outputs i need to do for dvd, and will continue trying RipBot, MeGUI and Handbrake and test out these quality settings they all employ.

    thanks for all your help, i will be away traveling thru Palawan Island in The Philippines for 4 weeks starting next tuesday, and taking all my camera gear as i will be shooting a lot of travel related video for several island/beach resorts, island hopping boat operators, transportation operators and whatever else i can find to put up in my new Vimeo travel channel.

    cheers.....glen
    Quote Quote  
  17. Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    when i tried the transparent text overlay using that tmpge smart render tool, it was difficult to get text color and size right, and place it in a suitable location where it did not impose on the video, and could be clearly read, did not like it at all, and it dragged my intel 3770 cpu right down just creating that text on the timeline, and why pay for tmpge smart render when i have a better tool that retains all my video quality, and gives me a much easier title creation tool as well, so VRD will not be lost in all this, that is until the day i switch from AVCHD to ProRes and/or Raw CinemaDNG (which i assume you would prefer over ProRes)
    CinemaDNG is superior in everyway - at least quality wise and flexibility. Even the debayering choice alone presents many options . The drawbacks are increased stroage and workflow demands.

    For certain tasks/jobs/clients you will need to do other types of manipulations than cuts type editing, and appending segments




    i know many hdd based media players cant cope with 1080/50p whether its mp4 or m2ts, and i have been thru many brands, but my 1080/50p m2ts files are high @ 4.1 and i never alter that, and my WD Live players manage them perfectly, thats why i use them, and recommend to everyone because i know they support every format i output to, and i always make people aware that if they dont use a hdd based media player then going thru the usb port on their HD tv will most likely have limitations as to container/codec/resolution support depending on the age and quality of the tv, and that is why i give them those 4 outputs because at least one is going to have support thru the tv, or via most hdd media players.
    But even some WD Live players (at least some versions or firmware versions) have problems with 1080p50/60 . Many people report this . You might have "lucked out", or got a good batch



    i have never looked into it that much TBH as i never output to bluray, i just output to 720/50p m2ts (and mp4) more for playback support thru the tv or media player but all i knew was that 720/50p was a bluray spec resolution and framerate, where 1080/50p is not.
    1080p50 isn't current BD spec, but it does fall under AVCHD2.0 specs. For example if you get equipment that is AVCHD2.0 certified, it can play those 1080p50 (it's usually 28Mb/s, not 24Mb/s) streams




    thanks for all your help, i will be away traveling thru Palawan Island in The Philippines for 4 weeks starting next tuesday, and taking all my camera gear as i will be shooting a lot of travel related video for several island/beach resorts, island hopping boat operators, transportation operators and whatever else i can find to put up in my new Vimeo travel channel.
    Nice! Have fun on the trip
    Quote Quote  
  18. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    But even some WD Live players (at least some versions or firmware versions) have problems with 1080p50/60 . Many people report this . You might have "lucked out", or got a good batch
    yeah i know lots of people who cant do 1080/50p in any container on their hdd media players, and a few that are using a WD Live, but i have 2 that are 3 years old, and my main 55" tv has one i think is 2 years old, all updated firmware, and all play 1080/50p m2ts fine.

    not only cant a lot of media players cope with 1080/50p content, i am not even aware of any full HD tv's that can do them either from their built in media players, so that is the reason why i also give people the original edited file, plus a copy output to 1080/25p and to 720/50p because there is an almost 100% chance that either or both of those 2 files will be supported, and for me, given the choice, i much prefer to watch my video @ 720/50p over 1080/25p, but others may not.

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Nice! Have fun on the trip
    i will, should be full on but also a lot of fun, although no rain there for 3 months so it is very hot there right now

    cheers.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 11th Apr 2014 at 20:30.
    Quote Quote  
Visit our sponsor! Try DVDFab and backup Blu-rays!