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  1. As the title says, only for personal use of course.
    I was thinking about HANDYCAM CX280, do you think I can get better for that price range, does some other company have better camcorders?

    Also, it would be nice if it had high quality image taking, so it's all in one, at least better than what's on most smartphones.
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  2. Member hech54's Avatar
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  3. Is there a big difference between a class of products like camcorder and digital camera in terms of video recording?
    For example, this video was taken with Samsung PL150.
    I can't really notice the video quality between that and a 3 times more expensive camcorder, am I missing something?

    Also, try to not post useless comments like the one above this one.
    Last edited by maligner; 7th Apr 2014 at 11:17.
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  4. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Unless your intended footage is going to be roving, outdoors in sunlight and from a distance, I don't think this serves as a good indicator of any kind of quality you hope to get.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  5. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Unless your intended footage is going to be roving, outdoors in sunlight and from a distance, I don't think this serves as a good indicator of any kind of quality you hope to get.
    What are you referring to?
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    There are bad and really good camcorder and also bad digital cameras but also really good ones. The upcoming Sony A7s (only 12 Megapixel but with clean 2:1 sampling) should be a really big thing. Take also a look at the GH4 (there are also older GH3 and GH2)
    Just take a look at this picture quality of 1080p:
    http://www.videoaktiv.de/Testvideos/Sony/Testvideo-Sony-FDR-AX-100-E.html
    HDR-CX900 is the same without 4K/UHD
    This is one of the best 1080p footage you can get in AVCHD 2.0 (8bit, 4:2:0)
    To watch this be sure to use MPC-HC or MPC-BE or a player with similar picture quality.

    I have this one:
    http://www.videoaktiv.de/Testvideos/Panasonic/Testvideo-Panasonic-HC-X-900-M.html
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  7. So, Samsung PL-150 is better than those and less expensive?
    Have you watched the video of the dog in HD?
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  8. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by maligner View Post
    Also, try to not post useless comments like the one above this one.
    Does that mean I can't use all my jokes about the ability to disable facial recognition/focusing features and/or not worrying about
    the recording time limit of most DSLR cameras?
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    Like we need to know it's for porn(!)

    Are we looking to bring out nice skin tones on the old meat'n'2 veg or something...?
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    Originally Posted by maligner View Post
    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Unless your intended footage is going to be roving, outdoors in sunlight and from a distance, I don't think this serves as a good indicator of any kind of quality you hope to get.
    What are you referring to?
    The sample footage with the blue pit bull pup was mostly shot outside from more than a few feet away, not inside and close up, so it does not serve to illustrate the quality you will get inside, close up, with home lighting. Of course, maybe Cornucopia is wrong and you plan to shoot home porn mostly featuring people romping around outside in broad daylight.
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  11. It is important to mention it's for porn because of the consideration for indoors lighting, stabilization and blurring on motion.
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  12. OK, can you just list 3 cameras released last or this year (or whatever the class of products it's called) for less than $400.
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    Originally Posted by maligner View Post
    It is important to mention it's for porn because of the consideration for indoors lighting, stabilization and blurring on motion.
    Or because you might have guessed (and correctly too, if this is the real reason) that saying would get you more replies than saying you're going to be filming weddings.
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  14. Oh, I forgot the most important thing, in which formats do these cameras typically record so there is no need for conversions and editing afterwards?
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    Originally Posted by maligner View Post
    Oh, I forgot the most important thing, in which formats do these cameras typically record so there is no need for conversions and editing afterwards?
    If you're not editing or converting, any format is fine.
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    Originally Posted by maligner View Post
    Oh, I forgot the most important thing, in which formats do these cameras typically record so there is no need for conversions and editing afterwards?
    Originally Posted by smrpix View Post
    If you're not editing or converting, any format is fine.
    most consumer grade cams shoot 1080 avchd now days, especially those in your budget, so even if he wants to "edit" his home "porn" videos, he can do it easily in avchd (mts) format as long as he has the right software and a decent pc or laptop.

    i dont like suggesting lower end budget cameras because there are too many out there, and i am not a fan of cheap budget avchd cams anyway, and i think you should be going for a slightly more higher end avchd camera that shoots 1080/60p @ 28Mbps and have a good AF and OIS system.

    if you are shooting your "porn" videos at night in say the bedroom under lights, then you will also need a couple of decent LED lights to illuminate the room, normal household ceiling lighting will not suffice.

    here is a link of what i am talking about.

    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=camera+led+lights&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&e...w=1902&bih=916

    if you had $5000 to spend, why not go professional and grab one of these 4k cameras

    http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursa

    oh, and btw, if you are doing this with your partner and your both going to feature in your videos, i will assume you are going to set your camera up on a tripod and place it in a location that allows you to capture everything, so you might need a tripod as well
    Last edited by glenpinn; 7th Apr 2014 at 18:00.
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  17. Originally Posted by mike20021969 View Post
    Like we need to know it's for porn(!)

    Are we looking to bring out nice skin tones on the old meat'n'2 veg or something...?
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
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  18. Member netmask56's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by maligner View Post
    As the title says, only for personal use of course.
    I was thinking about HANDYCAM CX280, do you think I can get better for that price range, does some other company have better camcorders?

    Also, it would be nice if it had high quality image taking, so it's all in one, at least better than what's on most smartphones.

    I wonder what Colin Farrell was thinking (if at all) when he did his famous "home entertainment movie" ? Widely downloaded on various nefarious sites. Just hope your efforts don't escape into the under-bush of the Internet.
    TheVoiceIsAnotherPerson ~ BeyonWiz DP-P1 and T3 PVR's ~ Popcorn C200 ~ Samsung ES8000 65" LED TV ~ Windows 7 ~ Yamaha RX-A1030 http://www.openwiz.org/wiki/ProjectX
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  19. Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post

    i dont like suggesting lower end budget cameras because there are too many out there, and i am not a fan of cheap budget avchd cams anyway,
    Yeah, I was thinking how I would feel later on in life if the videos were not of high enough quality, it would cause great regret if your fun memories, which you only get to experience at one point in life, were not properly recorded.

    I wish I though about this sooner.

    Still, I think fullHD is very much near the ceiling of artificially reproducible visual fidelity, 4K is an overkill. It just has to have good lighting and be compact, those other cameras are just too big for a POV recording.

    Google Glass idea of each person recording in real time and streaming to each other their POV is nice but the quality is just not there.
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    the vixia HF-G30 is about the best of the consumer grade avchd cams out now, and this is their first model to actually shoot 1080/60p @ 28Mbps which is really odd because panasonic have been shooting 1080/60p (50p in pal) avchd @ 28Mbps since the TM700 camera was made back in 2009, and panasonic still has the best OIS and AF systems in my opinion, thats why i still use my HDC-SDT750 cam for consumer use, and it has a 3MOS sensor, i think the G30 has a slightly larger single MOS sensor.

    http://camcorders.reviewed.com/content/canon-vixia-hf-g30-camcorder-review
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  21. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    You put this:

    Is there a big difference between a class of products like camcorder and digital camera in terms of video recording?
    For example, this video was taken with Samsung PL150.
    I can't really notice the video quality between that and a 3 times more expensive camcorder, am I missing something?
    in the same thread as this:

    Still, I think fullHD is very much near the ceiling of artificially reproducible visual fidelity, 4K is an overkill. It just has to have good lighting and be compact, those other cameras are just too big for a POV recording.

    Google Glass idea of each person recording in real time and streaming to each other their POV is nice but the quality is just not there.
    Your Handycam CX280 is ~$200USD, that Samsung PL150 is ~$100USD, and you are equating those with quality!? I have to say: even with outdoor lighting, that puppy footage looked like SHIT. Now, maybe that may have lost something via Youtube, but if you cannot even see a difference between its footage and the footage of something like a well lit GoPro Hero3+Black or a Panasonic HC-V550 or Canon Vixia (all of which shoot quite-compressed AVCHD-type video), then it doesn't really matter which cam you choose.

    BTW, Google Glass does 720p video. Depending on how one can tap & store its bitrate (and the optics involved), it could look anywhere from crap to somewhat decent. Don't pooh-pooh something just because of some buzzword numbers.

    Sounds to me like you really don't know what you want yet. Prioritize functionality vs. Budget/Time/Quality (in REALISTIC, objective terms), then get back to us.

    @glenpinn, even mention of something pie-in-the-sky like BMPCC (or better) to the OP is more of a total wet dream than what this guy's already thinking up. Better to have that conversation in some other thread where it could be put to use.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  22. OK, I just watched this video at fullHD on whole screen and when I saw those insects at 0:50 I was sold, Canon Vixia HF G30 it is.

    I bought my new PC for $1900 in anticipation of Star Citizen and Oculus Rift, so it's not that bad.
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    @glenpinn, even mention of something pie-in-the-sky like BMPCC (or better) to the OP is more of a total wet dream than what this guy's already thinking up. Better to have that conversation in some other thread where it could be put to use.
    it was not a suggestion, i put the BMCC up as a joke, if he really wanted bragging rights, and totally future proof himself.

    Originally Posted by maligner View Post
    OK, I just watched this video at fullHD on whole screen and when I saw those insects at 0:50 I was sold, Canon Vixia HF G30 it is.
    man you went up a lot in your budget, but like i told you in my private message, if you had to pick a brand new cam right now that shoots 1080/60p avchd @ 28Mbps (24 to 25Mbps is about the best it will do) then this cam gets all the top marks, but i believe it has a single MOS sensor (albeit quite descent)

    i still prefer 3MOS sensor cams like the top end panasonic consumer cams have, even if they are a tadd smaller than the single MOS senso in the canon.

    i still prefer the higher end panasonic cams for their brilliant AF and OIS systems as well, so thats why even tho my 2x HDC-SDT750 cams are late 2010 models, i still wont trade them for any other newer model cam.

    you could actually buy a BMPCC if you really want to get serious about your videos (they are a bit over $1000 here in autralia) and shoot your video in 1080/25p ProRes format at 220Mbps, and my son recently bought one with a few lenses and his rigs for his 2nd year at film & television at uni, and loves it.

    http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera

    i am now looking for my next upgrade path as well.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 8th Apr 2014 at 01:22.
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  24. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    I've looked at the BMPCC, and (you already know this but) other users should know that the equivalent $999USD only gets you the camera body. To get good images on it, you need the lot: Good MFT lenses ($200-$2000), and power supply & mounting & stabilization accessories. So now, you are talking ~$2200 and up. For what you get, it's GREAT, but it still isn't cheap and people need to know where it ultimately lands in budgeting tiers. TCO and all that.

    I went with Nikon DSLR+Lenses+Ninja2+Steadicam/Tripod/ShoulderRig for less money (not counting the ninja accessories). I can live with the rolling shutter for a little while as long as I am careful with my shot composition & movement (and subject's movement). Or shooting 720p60 - slight drop in rez but motion (and shutter) is much better.
    True, it also doesn't do RAW video, but I can still do quite a LOT with Flat/Log gamma settings going to the 220Mbps ProRes 4:2:2 recording.

    ...OK, back On-Topic (porn?)

    Scott
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 8th Apr 2014 at 01:50. Reason: clarification
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    I've looked at the BMPCC, and (you already know this but) other users should know that the equivalent $999USD only gets you the camera body. To get good images on it, you need the lot: Good MFT lenses ($200-$2000), and power supply & mounting & stabilization accessories. So now, you are talking ~$2200 and up. For what you get, it's GREAT, but it still isn't cheap and people need to know where it ultimately lands in budgeting tiers. TCO and all that.
    here we go again, geez you never give up do you.

    ok, so you pay $1000 for a camera body with a great sensor, it shoots native 1080/25p ProRes or Raw DNG @ 220Mbps.

    you then buy something like a Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mmf/3.5-5.6 M4/3 lens for around $500 which ships with mega OIS and AF (or something similar to this lens) and for $1500 you get a far better camera setup than any other consumer class avchd camera such as the G30 i already mentioned that costs around $1500, and then to record in ProRes or Raw DNG you have to spend around $600 on a ninja2 recorder, so $1500 compared to $2100 and the canon camera loses its 1080/60p ability because the ninja only records 1080/25p.

    as for all the accessories, not relevant here to this argument, you need those for both setups anyway.

    i have already shot video with a BMPCC, and have the clips here on my pc that i have edited and output to all sorts of playback formats (for tv) and i have also shot video on my panasonic AG-AC90 camera with the ninja2 recorder shooting 1080/25p ProRes @ 220Mbps and output that to the same supported playback formats, and it doesnt compare, and the real difference is the sensor and glass on the Pocket Camera.

    this is the BMPCC kit that my son bought a few weeks ago, $2500 worth for $1500, and i am going to be test driving it next week, cant wait.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Blackmagic-Pocket-Cinema-Camera-PACK-/161254697980?_trksid=...vip=true&rt=nc

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    I went with Nikon DSLR+Lenses+Ninja2+Steadicam/Tripod/ShoulderRig for less money (not counting the ninja accessories).
    no point arguing any more, i rest my case your honor, no point in debating someone who has gone down the path of using a DSLR camera for video.

    oh, and BTW, what "Nikon" DSLR camera and glass did you get that makes your setup better, and remember your ninja2 records direct from the camera sensor onto an SSD or laptop hdd, so is the sensor in your nikon camera better than the one in the BMPCC ?

    i know which setup i would want, and my son has already had a hacked GH2 & GH3, and sold his 60D to buy that BMPCC gear from ebay and he said it craps on anything he has ever used.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 8th Apr 2014 at 02:59.
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  26. I was watching this video and at 6:00 he starts talking about color correction, it this just a setting or do you have to fiddle with this with a specialized software?

    I'm not sure what's going on there really, everything looks washed out and then when it's "graded" it looks like it should've looked in the first place. That might be too fiddly for me.

    Granted, it truly gives a cinematic experience, I thought this was not possible for less than $3000.

    EDIT: Hm, this is very interesting, so this is like a pioneer product, one review from Amazon-
    This camera is years ahead of the video you can get from your DSLR or iPhone. I can't compare it to other consumer cameras because it is not like any other video camera you can buy under $5,000. If you want a certain type of image, then the drawbacks of this camera are insignificant.

    This camera is not over-hyped. It records 10x more image detail than any video camera you paid less then $5,000
    for. These are the facts.

    The total pixels in a frame is 1,920 pixels wide and 1,080 pixels high. A total of about 2 million pixels. In one second, we watch 30 of those frames, or roughly 60 million pixels per second. For a minute we'd need 60 million times 60 seconds, or 3.6 billion little dots of color. Even for a computer, that's a lot.

    The human eye can discern about 12 million colors. We need 3 bytes per pixel, or, in the above example, 10.8 gigabytes per minute*. As you know, you're not streaming 10 gigabytes of video to your TV every minute. Video compression cuts it down to a manageable size. However, video compression throws out image data that, if you want to change the video later, let's say, make the clouds more billowy, or the grass blades sharper, is impossible to do.

    The BMPCC throws out 10-times less visual information than your DSLR in video-mode. It saves the full color value for EVERY pixel. You can take a frame from this camera, print it on a normal photo paper, and it will look exactly like a photograph. If you do that with the video that comes out of other cameras, it will look okay, but will be missing a fair amount of detail and color nuance. You didn't notice the missing colors that were "compressed" away because the video was moving too fast.
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    Originally Posted by maligner View Post
    I was watching this video and at 6:00 he starts talking about color correction, it this just a setting or do you have to fiddle with this with a specialized software?

    I'm not sure what's going on there really, everything looks washed out and then when it's "graded" it looks like it should've looked in the first place. That might be too fiddly for me.

    Granted, it truly gives a cinematic experience, I thought this was not possible for less than $3000.
    yes prores needs color grading, but if you buy the pocket camera, you get a free copy of Da Vince Resolve light, which can be used to do this with, and all you need is to find decent editing software to do the rest, but the prores and DNG video then has to be re-converted to a fully supported playback format for TV viewing, and most likely you will use h264 @ around 20Mbps in an mp4 container, or output to bluray, but your going to get super awesome video m8, i can assure you of that, and imagine your videos looking like Cinema quality, makes me drool thinking about it.

    anyway, for $1500 you can get the pocket camera plus the panasonic lens i mentioned in my last post, beats buying that G30 camera and the ninja2 camera for over $2000, not even close, same goes for using a DSLR camera with the ninja2, wont come close.

    oh, also one thing, the pocket camera battery is shit, you need to either buy a few spares, or buy a battery grip for it that ships with 2 batteries, and you can use the onboard battery first, then swing over to the batteries in the grip automatically.

    you will also need to buy a couple of 128gb class 10 95MB/S sdxc cards to record ProRes, because you can only fit about 35mins onto a 64gb card, and the 128gb cards are not cheap.

    the ninja2 records ProRes onto an SSD which is not cheap, or as i do, i use a 1tb laptop hdd in my ninja2 and record up to 10 hours.

    Originally Posted by maligner View Post
    EDIT: Hm, this is very interesting, so this is like a pioneer product, one review from Amazon-
    This camera is years ahead of the video you can get from your DSLR or iPhone. I can't compare it to other consumer cameras because it is not like any other video camera you can buy under $5,000. If you want a certain type of image, then the drawbacks of this camera are insignificant.

    This camera is not over-hyped. It records 10x more image detail than any video camera you paid less then $5,000
    for. These are the facts
    i will get you some great stuff about this pocket camera, but it is not new, these cinema camera's have been around for some time, so be aware of how old the reviews are that you read.

    EDIT: i opened a new thread yesterday about the new BlackMagic cameras, you can read it here, but seems like nobody is interested.

    http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/363668-New-BlackMagic-Camera-s
    Last edited by glenpinn; 8th Apr 2014 at 03:25.
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    the pocket camera is used in in tv shows, documentaries and often features in some movies.

    john brawley uses BlackMagic cameras nearly full time now.

    http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/support/detail/faqs?sid=27541&pid=34849&os=mac
    http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/
    http://herefortheweather.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/bmpcc-1st-sample-footage-from-john-brawley/
    (vimeo reproduction)
    (vimeo reproduction)

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    i would have purchased a gopro, high quality video, lots of attachments to secure the camera any where, and its in your price range.
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  30. Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post

    yes prores needs color grading, but if you buy the pocket camera, you get a free copy of Da Vince Resolve light, which can be used to do this with, and all you need is to find decent editing software to do the rest, but the prores and DNG video then has to be re-converted to a fully supported playback format for TV viewing, and most likely you will use h264 @ around 20Mbps in an mp4 container, or output to bluray, but your going to get super awesome video m8, i can assure you of that, and imagine your videos looking like Cinema quality, makes me drool thinking about it.
    OK, do you know if this can be automated once it's set up for the first time and how long does it take for a half hour video?
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