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  1. I captured an old B&W movie at 720P 59.96 fps as M2TS file that I would like burn to DVD. When I convert using ffmpeg, the DVD quality is excellent, but there is a Soap Opera Effect that makes the movie look unnatural.

    ffmpeg -y -i input.M2TS -f dvd -target ntsc-dvd -r 29.97 -vf scale=720:480 -aspect 16:9 -b:v 8000k -g 12 -mbd rd -trellis 1 -flags +mv0 -cmp 0 -subcmp 2 -ss 00:00:17.5 -t 01:21:58 output.mpg

    My HDTV has motion interpolation turned off, and I don't usually see problems coming from my satellite receiver, but I do from some captured video. I don't have this problem with new shows, but most of the old B&W shows do this.

    Can anyone provide suggestions on how to handle this?
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  2. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
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    Post a short sample.
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  3. Here's a 2 min sample. The video looks fine on my PC, but on my TV I have problems.
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  4. Member
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    Turn off the smooth motion (or whatever it's called on your particularly tv.) The sample is fine. You may have to turn it off for each resolution.
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  5. The sample is 29.97 fps but every 5th frame is a duplicate. You need to decimate to 23.976 fps.
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  6. The sample is 29.97 fps but every 5th frame is a duplicate. You need to decimate to 23.976 fps.
    I've never done this before. Is there an easy way to do this with ffmpeg?
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  7. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mr_Flintstone View Post
    The sample is 29.97 fps but every 5th frame is a duplicate. You need to decimate to 23.976 fps.
    I've never done this before. Is there an easy way to do this with ffmpeg?
    I haven't directly used ffmpeg in a while, so hopefully someone can chime in on that, but in the meantime a very easy, and effective, way to do it with the following AviSynth line:

    Code:
    TDecimate(cycleR=1)
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  8. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mr_Flintstone View Post
    I captured an old B&W movie at 720P 59.96 fps as M2TS file that I would like burn to DVD. When I convert using ffmpeg, the DVD quality is excellent, but there is a Soap Opera Effect that makes the movie look unnatural.

    ffmpeg -y -i input.M2TS -f dvd -target ntsc-dvd -r 29.97 -vf scale=720:480 -aspect 16:9 -b:v 8000k -g 12 -mbd rd -trellis 1 -flags +mv0 -cmp 0 -subcmp 2 -ss 00:00:17.5 -t 01:21:58 output.mpg

    My HDTV has motion interpolation turned off, and I don't usually see problems coming from my satellite receiver, but I do from some captured video. I don't have this problem with new shows, but most of the old B&W shows do this.

    Can anyone provide suggestions on how to handle this?
    Your clip is fine. Different sources do different things with different decoders/playback hardware/software and respective settings. This is normal.

    For example, when I capture a sports game from VHS->DvD it looks like film with VLC but looks soap opera-ish on my old tube. I can play around with the settings all day and get different results, but the clip is the clip in the end.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  9. I would never encode a film source at 29.97 fps with duplicate frames. It should be encoded at 23.976 fps progressive with pulldown flags. But that is a separate issue from the TV's motion interpolation problem. By the way, static talking head shots aren't a very good example for this type of issue.
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  10. I re-encoded the source video with he same script except I changed 29.97 to 23.976, and it fixed everything. Thanks guys for everything.
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    Here I thought Soap Opera Effect meant making a half hour TV show from a three minute story. Whaddya know.
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  12. Although my problem seemed to be fixed with this one video, I was still experiencing some problems with a few others. After several tries with many different types of software, I finally got it to work correctly by updating ffdshow and avisynth. After that a simple script was all it took.

    DirectShowSource(input.m2ts, fps=59.940,convert fps=true
    SelectEven()
    TDecimate()

    This does a perfect job of converting the frame rate of my m2ts files to "film". After that, I just open with WinFF and convert to DVD. One other thing... Under additional command line parameters I add -r 23.976.
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  13. If your source was really 60 fps converting it to 24 fps will give you uneven cadence. If your source was 24 fps with duplicate frames to make 60 fps you will have a normal 24 fps video. But on playback on a 60 fps TV you will get 3:2 duplicates again. Exactly what you started with.
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    Unless something has changed recently , I'm pretty sure ffmpeg can't use soft pulldown during MPEG2 encoding - so your streams are probably not dvd compliant
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  15. If your source was really 60 fps converting it to 24 fps will give you uneven cadence. If your source was 24 fps with duplicate frames to make 60 fps you will have a normal 24 fps video. But on playback on a 60 fps TV you will get 3:2 duplicates again. Exactly what you started with.
    I don't know what was causing my problem originally; TV, DVD player, encoding, or something else. All I know is what my eyes tell me, and doing it this way results in a DVD that plays smoothly without being choppy or having unnatural movement. Just to be sure, I asked my wife to watch videos encoded both ways, and she agreed with my assessment.

    Unless something has changed recently , I'm pretty sure ffmpeg can't use soft pulldown during MPEG2 encoding - so your streams are probably not dvd compliant
    I don't know about this either, but the DVDs I created plays on both of my DVD players just fine; and they are more than a few years old.
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    Originally Posted by Mr_Flintstone View Post

    I don't know about this either, but the DVDs I created plays on both of my DVD players just fine; and they are more than a few years old.

    If you open the output stream in gspot, it will say "none, already DVD format" in the resizing box . It will say 23.976pics/s , 29.97 frames/s but 59.94 fields/s

    A 23.976p stream without 3:2 pulldown flags won't say "none, already DVD format" . It will say 23.976pics/s , 23.976 frames/s

    Some DVD players can play non compliant streams. But if you want to produce a NTSC DVD that plays in all players, it needs to done correctly with pulldown flags, or encoded interlaced to output a 59.94 field/sec signal



    I think your topic title is a bit misworded. Typically when someone says "soap opera effect" - it refers to 59.94 interlaced fields/s or 59.94 progressive . It implies faster motion capture , smoother motion, or "video", not film rates (23.976) . Because it reminds them of "soap operas" or the "live" look which don't use film rates . Conversely, a 1 in 5 duplicate cadence would suggest a "judder", less smooth motion - not a "soap opera effect"

    EDIT: yes I can confirm ffmpeg encodes are non compliant with -r 23.976 -target ntsc-dvd . And I don't see any soft pulldown switches, or film dvd settings you might be able to add which might imply soft 3:2 pulldown in the documentation
    Last edited by poisondeathray; 15th Apr 2014 at 22:01.
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  17. If you open the output stream in gspot, it will say "none, already DVD format" in the resizing box . It will say 23.976pics/s , 29.97 frames/s but 59.94 fields/s

    A 23.976p stream without 3:2 pulldown flags won't say "none, already DVD format" . It will say 23.976pics/s , 23.976 frames/s
    OK, I don't know what all that means, but I just downloaded Gspot to check. I checked one encoded with TMPGenc and another encoded with FFMPEG. Both say pics/sec=23.976 and frames/sec=23.976. Just below that, the word Prog is highlighted in green.
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    Originally Posted by Mr_Flintstone View Post

    OK, I don't know what all that means, but I just downloaded Gspot to check. I checked one encoded with TMPGenc and another encoded with FFMPEG. Both say pics/sec=23.976 and frames/sec=23.976. Just below that, the word Prog is highlighted in green.
    That suggests you didn't use DVD compliant settings with TMPGEnc

    The one with soft pulldown will have the IL (interlaced) box highlighted in green, but also the 3:2 box lit . Mediainfo(view=>text) will say it's progressive scan, and either 2:3 or 3:2 pulldown for the scan order

    Whereas mediainfo won't say pulldown for a 23.976p encode without pulldown

    Basically those soft pulldown flags (repeat field flags) are required to output a 59.94 fields /s signal to be compliant with NTSC video equipment
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  19. I took the elementary m2v streams from both videos and ran them through DGPulldown; applying pulldown. Now both videos show 23.976 pics/s, 29.97 frames/s and 59.94 fields/s. Am I on the right track?
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  20. Member
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    Originally Posted by Mr_Flintstone View Post
    I took the elementary m2v streams from both videos and ran them through DGPulldown; applying pulldown. Now both videos show 23.976 pics/s, 29.97 frames/s and 59.94 fields/s. Am I on the right track?
    Yes that will work

    It's a shame that ffmpeg doesn't have this (It's been on the request list for years)

    Since you're already using an .avs script, another free encoder you might want to consider is HCenc (or one of the tools that use HCEnc like avs2dvd). The quality is a step up from ffmpeg's MPEG2 encoder, and it can do soft pulldown directly
    Last edited by poisondeathray; 15th Apr 2014 at 23:24.
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  21. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Unless something's changed in recent years, ffmpeg's MPEG-2 encoder is less than great. I too wouldn't use it when there are indeed other great MPEG-2 encoders around, and HCenc is arguably the best free choice.

    You can easily feed a script into it and, in your settings, it can ensure a DvD compliant stream with pulldown.

    BTW - I kinda like the soap opera effect on some content.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  22. Member
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    Originally Posted by Mr_Flintstone View Post
    Here's a 2 min sample.
    Was that Ronald Reagan?
    Regardless, what was the film?
    Last edited by mike20021969; 16th Apr 2014 at 16:32.
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  23. That was Hellcats of the Navy starring Ronald and Nancy (Davis) Reagan.
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  24. Member
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    Originally Posted by Mr_Flintstone View Post
    That was Hellcats of the Navy starring Ronald and Nancy (Davis) Reagan.
    Thanks
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