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  1. I have been told that consumer DVD burners don't make exact bit for bit copies. Still, I wonder, for those professional piraters with money, couldn't they buy a machine that makes an exact bit for bit copy of a DVD? Then , it would seem, that the copy would play exactly as the original, regardless of any type of encryption/cinavia. How much would such a machine cost?
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  2. What's the difference between copies produced in a facility that stamps DVDs and the DVD you make a copy of at home?
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  3. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Who told you that?

    The whole story:
    DVD burners CAN make bit-for-bit backups. Of the USER data sectors. They cannot do anything with the other sectors, while pressing plants COULD. However, for all YOUR purposes, there would be no need to.

    Piraters avoid the need to have pressing plants (though I guess it would be possible for them to acquire the equipment - even though it would likely be NOTICED, as there aren't more than a few scores of presses in existence), because the only real thing lacking between a burned DVD disc and a pressed one is the missing ability to encrypt. And piraters are the ones decrypting, so it wouldn't be likely that they would put much stock into re-encrypting (plus the encryption requires a license which they wouldn't/couldn't get). BTW, presses cost somewhere between ~$300,000.00 and $2,500,000.00 when I last checked.

    This kind of misinformation is probably based on the confusion with AudioCD processes. AudioCDs allow consumer burning beyond the User Data sectors (known as a "raw" burn, as opposed to a "cooked" burn) just like their pressed cousins. Neither DVDs nor BDs allow for that, as they are strict descendents of Mode1 Data CDs. However, AudioCDs don't have full 3 layers of error correction the way DataCDs or DVDs or BDs do, and it is sometimes this lack of error correction that means that rips of AudioCDs may not be exactly the same as their original stamped versions (although with good apps like EAC, they get damn close most of the time, and right on the mark some of the time).

    @MindController, the pressed version is more permanent than R or RW burned versions, they allow encryption, as well as additional watermarking & id info. From a User Data payload perspective, they are identical. As they should be. Pressed/stamped versions are still much more acceptable than burned versions in their physical player compatibility.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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    Also, pressed disks (commercial) are physically stronger, with less flex, so more durable. This is one reason that NetFlix refuses to carry the Made-On-Demand (MOD) disks (like Warner Archives) because US Postal records show the MOD disk breakage is far higher than commercial DVDs.

    (I've always suspected the postal carriers' uses of jackhammers on those have something to do with it. I think NetFlix pays for those to ensure the MOD-distributing rivals can't succeed like NetFlix has.)

    Well... that's what I heard.


    But the bigger question is, "Since DVD Pressing has dropped off, I'll bet those machines are cheaper to buy now - since they have no future use - than ever before." It makes a garage-shop pirate shop all the cheaper... for any tourist whose traveled the markets in Vietnam, garage-shop pirates seem to be VERY plentiful.

    (One still wonders how can Brazilian high-humidity fungus be of any concern when it's not a concern all over SE Asia - just as tropical, just as humid... Oh well, I'm sure Gonca has this answer! wink wink, nudge nudge)
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  5. Member Noahtuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Piraters avoid the need to have pressing plants (though I guess it would be possible for them to acquire the equipment - even though it would likely be NOTICED, as there aren't more than a few scores of presses in existence),
    And everything you buy on Amazon is legit.......

    Sorry but.... you may know a lot about video and audio, but you seem to be sorely lacking in how things work and have worked in the past in the real world.

    They do not need to acquire it/them, as in the past, as I am sure it is the same today, they either have access to it/them or they are the ones running them in China...
    LOL!!
    Originally a member since 2001, LONG LIVE TARAN's!!!
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  6. a conspiracy i tells ya
    Status - Attacked by mold spores. - Pour out a lil liquor for all the homies lost in the format wars. Sanlyn will live again, a Sanlyn v2.0 if you will
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  7. Member johns0's Avatar
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    After a 1000 posts you still ask these weird questions?
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  8. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    @Noahtuck, man you're on a roll these days, huh!?



    <from other thread>
    Look, there may occur a few burned media items that temporarily get by QC at Amazon, but they will quickly get taken down. As per their Content Guidelines policy statement:
    Recopied Media
    Copies, dubs, duplicates, or transfers of books, music, videos, software, images, etc., are prohibited. Just as you cannot sell a photocopied book without the author's permission, you cannot sell copies or duplicates of videos, music, video games, software, photos, etc. Likewise, you cannot sell transferred media--whether laserdisc to video, CD-ROM to cassette tape, or from the Internet to any digital format--unless explicitly approved by the author.
    ...
    Promotional Media
    Movies, CDs, software, books (including advance reading copies and uncorrected proofs), etc. that are produced and distributed for promotional use only are prohibited for sale through Amazon.com.
    ...
    Movies
    Unauthorized copies of movies (VHS, DVD, etc.) may not be sold through Amazon.com. Also, movies that have been transferred from one format to another (unless done by the proper rights holder) are not permitted. For example, NTSC to Pal and Pal to NTSC conversions are not permitted unless done by the proper rights holder. Unreleased/prereleased movies, screeners, trailers, unpublished and unauthorized film scripts (with no ISBN number), electronic press kits, and unauthorized props are prohibited.
    ...
    Music
    Recopied music in any format is prohibited. Bootlegs, unauthorized live concerts, unauthorized soundboard recordings, unauthorized merchandise, etc., is not permitted.
    So the only way burned items would NOT get taken down would be if it were shown/proven by the "Rights holder" to be the original. But the problem there would be that Amazon would require a UPC code (or there couldn't be returns) and that costs usually $250(membership)+$50/yearly+some percentage of # of items, though small/temp suppliers can get by with a broker's series supply which costs $100 each. Then there is the ISRC code which Amazon would require for recordings (for them to correctly catalog them in their database), and that is $80/track, so an average 15 track CD would cost $1200. Then there are the copyright registration costs (proof of IP ownership is required)... Heck, a short press run of ~1000 discs only costs $300-500 when last I checked.
    The upshot of all this is: it is trivial to actually create the pressed discs, but in order to distribute like the big boys, you have to play their game, and it is rigged in favor of large volumes.

    So while I will concede that at any one point in time there could exist a few non-pressed items on a site like Amazon, they both won't last long and are probably only 0.0001% of their disc sales.

    That's reality. (BTW, I looked up the price figures so you would know I wasn't just talking out of my ass)
    </from other thread>

    Regarding piraters and pressing plants, I think YOU are the one leaning on generalities. Those pressing plants aren't cheap, as I already mentioned, and they are in a business with standards (technical & otherwise). Ok, so some businesses might be shady, but those shady ones don't make it through customs in any large quantities (though they could be smuggled in, I guess). But why? As I said before, reputable dealers don't want to mess with that shit. They could get sued and/or have FTC & customs fines levied on them. So that leaves those things staying Gray Market all the way to what? Street corner dealers waving open their trenchcoats? Swarthy, burly guys hustling a sale or two from the back of a semi?
    Ok, so let's say those do happen (in ridiculously small quantities compared to regular market sales).
    But to go through legit distribution channels requires towing the line on all the standard business practices and IP policies. Do you KNOW how hard it is for a small time creator to even break into the big leagues!? I do, because I have actual experience trying to work with the system. If you think it can happen sliding by with graft & corruption, you need a reality check yourself. G&C happen in certain foreign markets, but in the West, for better or for worse, the G&C is "institutionalized" and corporatized into our lovely system of "market self-regulation". And so those foreign market knockoffs might "leak" into scrutinized domestic markets, but that leak is only a trickle, not a flood.

    Remember all those G-men doing the RIAA's & MPAA's grunt work (which I think we've both commented on previously)? Well, they ARE doing their job, even if it wasn't exactly the one that I would sanction.

    That's the REAL WORLD.

    ****************

    I seriously don't understand why you need to resort to remarks like that.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  9. Member
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    OllieTSB

    (I've always suspected the postal carriers' uses of jackhammers on those have something to do with it. I think NetFlix pays for those to ensure the MOD-distributing rivals can't succeed like NetFlix has.)
    Come on now, they don't use jackhammers. It's sledgehammers.

    (One still wonders how can Brazilian high-humidity fungus be of any concern when it's not a concern all over SE Asia - just as tropical, just as humid... Oh well, I'm sure Gonca has this answer! wink wink, nudge nudge)
    Because in Brazil they have a manic(o) that likes to game

    johns0

    It's actually 1153
    Is he gone?
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    Gonca, you certainly have "likeliest possibility" factors on your side about the "sledge vs jackhammers." BUT... if you have a chance to use a jackhammer on a stack of anything vs. a sledge, which would you prefer?!!

    Of course, if a postal-truck driver (just for example, of course) had one of those wooden-ball car-seat cushions, sliding a few disks under and then crank up the stereo, bouncing along like Newman - I'm betting a whole lotta breakages could occur! Snap, crackle, pop!

    As for fungal agents, I see there's an ongoing photo-op about heat & humidity. "Yes, Virgonca, there IS a Santy... and he's baaaack..." wink wink, nudge nudge...
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  11. Member
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    he's baaaack
    but not here
    lets see how patient lordsmurf is

    its exactly the same thing he was posting here

    sliding a few disks under
    are you sure it isn't between the seat and his gluteus maximus. Might explain some of the bouncing
    Last edited by gonca; 2nd Apr 2014 at 18:38.
    Is he gone?
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  12. 4k mould is the future
    Status - Attacked by mold spores. - Pour out a lil liquor for all the homies lost in the format wars. Sanlyn will live again, a Sanlyn v2.0 if you will
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  13. and mold lol
    Status - Attacked by mold spores. - Pour out a lil liquor for all the homies lost in the format wars. Sanlyn will live again, a Sanlyn v2.0 if you will
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  14. Member
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    He's still using the DVD schtick. It might take time for the one that cannot be named to move to BR
    Is he gone?
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  15. I've been flashing the bat signal in the sky and Sanlyn hasnt responded, is this the end for our caped crusader?
    Status - Attacked by mold spores. - Pour out a lil liquor for all the homies lost in the format wars. Sanlyn will live again, a Sanlyn v2.0 if you will
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  16. Member
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    4k signals might be needed these days. That's far better definition... I understood the Good Lord is considering 4k cumulus instead of 1080p. Or i. Or ...

    But I'm fascinated that anyone's considering 4K tech because I remember there was an 8K hoopla six months before that ever was mentioned. That died down because of "panel expense" and 4K appeared magically as The Great Solution.

    Well, fine... but how many times do they think I'm going to re-buy the White Album? I don't care if someone's gluteus maximus smashes my old copies - I've had enough of Bungalow Bill. Or was that Li'l? Nancy?

    (And yes, the patience of the village idiot is probably the key indicator!!)
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  17. Originally Posted by OllieTSB View Post
    4k signals might be needed these days. That's far better definition... I understood the Good Lord is considering 4k cumulus instead of 1080p. Or i. Or ...

    But I'm fascinated that anyone's considering 4K tech because I remember there was an 8K hoopla six months before that ever was mentioned. That died down because of "panel expense" and 4K appeared magically as The Great Solution.

    Well, fine... but how many times do they think I'm going to re-buy the White Album? I don't care if someone's gluteus maximus smashes my old copies - I've had enough of Bungalow Bill. Or was that Li'l? Nancy?

    (And yes, the patience of the village idiot is probably the key indicator!!)
    Do i detect a little rum in thy coffee arrrghhhhh
    Status - Attacked by mold spores. - Pour out a lil liquor for all the homies lost in the format wars. Sanlyn will live again, a Sanlyn v2.0 if you will
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  18. Member TreeTops's Avatar
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    Would you believe that 'Lordsmurf' got suckered in on that mold thing? (See link in post #10 above)
    Courage is being scared to death --- and saddling up anyway. 'John Wayne'
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  19. Member
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    Originally Posted by VideoChunkster View Post
    Do i detect a little rum in thy coffee arrrghhhhh
    That must be your style, not mine. I'd never ruin two favorites that deserve their own palate and bouquet. Now, when you catch me with a pineapple halved and a straw in it, THEN you can surmise some rummy favorites!

    Put dee lime in dee coconut and...
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