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  1. Member
    Join Date: Mar 2014
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    Based on the threads I've read so far here, it looks like I'm in the right place for some great help.

    So, I've got a collection of about 20 hi-8 tapes and about a dozen miniDV's.
    I've never captured video before and the hi-8's are getting OLD.

    I'm in total overload, drinking from the firehose mode right now, after the reading I've done so far.
    I just need to get a gameplan started - I need to get a recommendation for a proper capture device, software, codec format, etc.

    My intentions/desire is to capture the video in a lossless format (for archival) and then to convert to something else w/o losing any visible quality, to DVD. I'd also like to have the lossless formatting in case I want to do any IQ cleanup work, if necessary.

    I still have the camcorders that created the recordings and as far as I know they are still perfectly functional.

    So far, I'm looking at a ADVC110 for capturing. Thoughts? As far as I can tell, this device will allow for uncompressed captures, yes?
    After I've captured, what software do I need to have to continue?
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  2. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2005
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    the miniDv is digital already and needs to be captured over firewire to the computer from the cam. the hi8 is analog and needs an a-2-d conversion. the minidv cam may have analog to digital passthrough you could use to do that.
    --
    "a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303
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  3. Member
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    I'll need to check on the miniDV cam's ability to do pass-thru, but my understanding is that the quality of going this route would not be as good as using a dedicated capture device.
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  4. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    hi8 is only vhs quality anyway if it was recorded with a good cam. wouldn't worry about capturing into Dvavi too much, it's a highly editable format and supported by almost all software.
    --
    "a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303
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  5. Member
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    Okay...but for the moment, let's assume that my miniDV cam doesn't support pass-thru. What would be a good recommendation for a capture device?
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  6. Member turk690's Avatar
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    What's your camcorder specs? If it has pass-through and plays the miniDV tapes reliably you need a firewire interface on the PC. Same for Hi8 (D8 camcorders specifically have to be able to play Hi8; some models only play D8). Avoid using a laughtop for doing anything in your gameplan.
    Stop feeling suicidal just because he unfriended you on fezbuk.
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  7. Member
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    I have a system that I plan on using for this process that has a pretty nice PCI-e firewire-800 card in it.
    The camcorder is a Canon Optura-60. I *think* it supports pass-through....but like I mentioned, it seems that I recall reading that this is not preferred over using a dedicated capture device like the ADVC-110.

    Just finally realized too that the ADVC-110 won't get me uncompressed captures. But....after several more minutes, I seem to be coming to the conclusion that it's not worth getting an analogue capture card...and having to bump up the CPU in the computer to deal with it...only to get something that might only be slightly better than the DV-AVI. Am I getting closer?
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  8. Member turk690's Avatar
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    Don't fret too much about compressed/uncompressed. MiniDV is already digital and compressed as it is; strictly speaking, you are not capturing (as in A to D), but are merely moving/dumping the digital contents of the tape bit by bit to your hard drive, where it ends up as a DV-AVI file. These bits get out of the tape via firewire; your firewire-800 card seems nifty but I'd try it first with the Canon to see if the latter will be recognized by the system (some camcorders, capture programs, OS combinations do not get along well with firewire-800). BTW it helps a lot what kind of help you will get in this forum by being very explicit about what exactly is in your "system", for one.
    Stop feeling suicidal just because he unfriended you on fezbuk.
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  9. Member
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    Thanks, turk690.
    Just in case it's not 100% clear, I have both hi-8 and miniDV tapes. I understand that the miniDV tapes are already digital, so the question around capturing uncompressed was in regards to the hi-8 media.
    For the miniDV camcorder, it appears that I can just hook it up straight to the computer via USB and collect the files. Question then is...after I do this, is it saved as DV-AVI (just like the hi-8 video would be after being captured by the ADVC?
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  10. Member turk690's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ck42 View Post
    Thanks, turk690.
    Just in case it's not 100% clear, I have both hi-8 and miniDV tapes. I understand that the miniDV tapes are already digital, so the question around capturing uncompressed was in regards to the hi-8 media.
    For the miniDV camcorder, it appears that I can just hook it up straight to the computer via USB and collect the files. Question then is...after I do this, is it saved as DV-AVI (just like the hi-8 video would be after being captured by the ADVC?
    Hi8 is captured and converted on the fly to DV format by the ADVC (Hi8 analogue outs connected to ADVC, ADVC connected to firewire card.) DV is a compressed format but is stable, well-supported, much more efficient than Huff or Lagarith, and really, to start with Hi8, you will not notice the differences in video quality either way.
    To get DV-AVI off the miniDV tapes, you need to connect via firewire. The USB port is just for accessing low-res MPEG versions of files, deposited onto the SD card in camcorder. What you just said about hooking straight to the computer via USB is a common incorrect initial assumption with miniDV camcorders that have both firewire and USB; read the Canon manual more thoroughly.
    Stop feeling suicidal just because he unfriended you on fezbuk.
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  11. Member
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    Got it. Thanks.
    I've got the necessary 4pin-to-4pin firewire cable already....so just need to grab me the AVDC.
    From there, it looks like WinDV seems to be the recommended software. Appears to be ANCIENT software though! Is this really still the recommendation? Enosoft DV Processor seems a little more modern. Thoughts?
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  12. Member turk690's Avatar
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    Before the capture part, check to see if the DV camcorder is duly recognized by windoze as connected via firewire, which is the case if it's included as an "imaging device" in device manager. If you are using windoze, that is. Is that xp, 7, 8? You do not seem to take seriously providing computer specs in your profile, as detailed as possible. Do so because that will provide clues to other posters who want to reply to this thread and give their two cents.
    WinDV and Enosoft are ok with ADVC110, provided the 1st sentence above is true. Some people use the capture portions of Vegas and Premiere. Windoze has built-in capture capabilities with movie maker and dvd maker; you may not even have to install another.
    Lastly, the other most important thing you must have is a separate hard drive (SATA, not USB) to put the captured DV AVI files in. Look for other posts in this forum where this cud has been chewed on to a fine paste, such as http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/362440-Hard-drives-wires-media-organization-in-general?p=2302854
    Stop feeling suicidal just because he unfriended you on fezbuk.
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  13. Originally Posted by ck42 View Post
    Got it. Thanks.
    I've got the necessary 4pin-to-4pin firewire cable already....so just need to grab me the AVDC.
    From there, it looks like WinDV seems to be the recommended software. Appears to be ANCIENT software though! Is this really still the recommendation? Enosoft DV Processor seems a little more modern. Thoughts?
    There is no reason to restrict yourself to just one software. When it comes to picking which one, my advice is:

    WinDV - For analog > DV conversion, in this case your Hi8 tapes being converted by the ADVC. This little app is about as simple as it gets, and it gets the job done. No need to complicate things for this purpose.

    Enosoft - For analog > DV conversion. Much more advanced s/w and has a proc amp and other adjustments that can be made while capturing. Not adjustments I would encourage for a newbie however - other than to correct the IRE level if using a DV camcorder to digitize analog NTSC (which gets it wrong).

    ScenalyzerLive - For dumping native DV footage, in this case your miniDV tapes. I've been bringing this s/w up in threads for ages now and IMO there is no better option for native DV capture. The common issue you'll find with using WinDV and pretty much everything else is that changes in audio sample rate during a capture will kill the audio portion, and you'd have to restart the capture from where the sample rate changed. ScLive is the only s/w I know that is immune to this, and also has many other great features. It is the most advanced of the lot but worth the time to learn.

    Additional software:
    DVdate - Another common issue with native DV is corrupted datestamps, either from re-using tapes or other causes. So if you're interested in keeping the date and time info, be aware that capture s/w may simply not read it if it there is some kind of corruption present. DVdate, on the other hand, most likely will read it and it'll give you the option to split the DV file according to this info. Obviously this only applies to your digital miniDV tapes.

    Finally, the most common question asked about when capturing DV is whether to choose Type1 or Type2. The answer is simple, and there is no reason to choose otherwise - it is Type2. Type1 is actually the newer type and was made to improve capture performance, however it offers absolutely no benefit today and was always the less compatible of the two. I can go into more detail but I won't, just choose Type2 and you will always be fine.

    Originally Posted by turk690 View Post
    Lastly, the other most important thing you must have is a separate hard drive (SATA, not USB) to put the captured DV AVI files in. Look for other posts in this forum where this cud has been chewed on to a fine paste, such as http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/362440-Hard-drives-wires-media-organization-in-general?p=2302854
    Good advice from you, and I of course agree it's always best to capture to another SATA drive. Having said that, I've captured DV to an external USB 2.0 drive without one hiccup (though it's not a habit of mine). It is an ancient format and has such small demands that this rule really doesn't matter. But no harm in being on the safe side - though an external USB 3.0 drive is a much more convenient option and more than adequate.
    Last edited by SixFiftyThree; 31st Mar 2014 at 01:15.
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  14. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    hi8 is only vhs quality anyway
    S-VHS, surely? Hence needs an S-video port.

    If your miniDV camcorder does analogue passthrough from S-video to DV, I wouldn't get an ADVC110. The camcorder may well be better, and in unlikely to be worse (except in NTSC countries it probably gets the black level slightly wrong).

    Cheers,
    David.
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  15. Member
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    turk690: Point taken regarding my profile. Updated.

    SixFiftyThree: Great info on the software side. I'll have to chew on all that for a while. FYI, I do have a copy of Sony Vegas 9 Plat Pro Pack....never used though. Not sure how this would factor in to all this though.

    2Bdecided: This is something I've mentioned a few times here already. I seem to have run across some post indicating that given the choice, a dedicated capture device will give better performance (IQ) over a pass-through solution. If not, I can save a nice chunk of change and use the miniDV cam. I'm only going to do this hi-8 capture once....so I want it to be good and I don't mind spending the money on the AVDC to get an advantage. Besides that, I'll also want it for importing my miniDV tapes.
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  16. Member
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    Originally Posted by ck42 View Post
    I seem to have run across some post indicating that given the choice, a dedicated capture device will give better performance (IQ) over a pass-through solution. If not, I can save a nice chunk of change and use the miniDV cam. I'm only going to do this hi-8 capture once....so I want it to be good and I don't mind spending the money on the AVDC to get an advantage.
    I love my ADVC, but I wouldn't count on it necessarily being better than camera pass through. It's unclear whether your model supports it.


    Originally Posted by ck42 View Post
    Besides that, I'll also want it for importing my miniDV tapes.
    This second sentence indicates you still have some confusion about how firewire works. Here's a useful website from 2008. Nothing in DV has changed significantly since then.
    http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-FAQ-tech.html#1394

    BTW, your version of Vegas is fine for DV capture (and editing.)
    Last edited by smrpix; 31st Mar 2014 at 10:10.
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  17. Member
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    smrpix: MiniDv camcorder is a Canon Optura 60.

    ...okay, where's the facepalm emot??? I can only blame the thought that I needed the AVDC for the miniDV on the fact that I was still working on my first cup of coffee. That's my story and I'm sticking with it! Wow...that was was dumb. LOL
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  18. Member
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    Your camera's guide is ambiguous as to whether the s-vhs port is in/out or just out. No harm in trying.

    No problem with the brain-freeze. In fact, thanks for owning it rather than modifying your post to pretend it never happened.
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  19. Member
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    So then, I'm left with the thought, if the pass-through does work, I won't know if it's better/worse/same IQ as using an AVDC.
    I need to see if it even works though, first....this will all be a moot sub-topic if it won't even give me the pass-through function.

    ....thanks EVERYONE so far!! This is exactly the kind of help and guidance I was hoping for here!
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  20. Member
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Atlanta
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    So I've not got everything hooked up.
    Problem I'm running into is that the camera is not being recognized (by either WinDV or DV Processor).

    In the Device Manager, it shows the Optura60, but indicates that that the drivers are not installed (which they shouldn't need to be for firewired, right?)

    I've Google'd a bit trying to find a solution, but I think I'm stuck. Help?

    EDIT:
    Just installed WinDV and the camera and eSATA drive to another Win7 system and the camera is being properly recognized in Device Manager. Currently running a capture test with WinDV. Looks like it's working now though.

    I'd still like to get this working on the OTHER computer though.
    Last edited by ck42; 2nd Apr 2014 at 18:22.
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  21. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    For standard DV cameras, you shouldn't need to install additional drivers (assuming your installed OS correctly included them in the first place - which could be your problem).

    "Uninstall" the 1394/Firewire port from your computer by deleting it's listing in Device Manager. Reboot, then allow it to be recognized & reinstalled (hopefully correctly this time). You might need your original OS install disc, so have it ready.

    Once you have the drivers installed, make sure Power Management isn't set to Economy mode: make sure it is ALWAYS ON.

    Reboot after doing each of these changes. Tell us if that works (doesn't always).

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  22. Member
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    Okay....apparently, I only needed to delete the adapter and let it be rediscovered and reinstalled.
    As soon as it finished installing the drivers, DV Processor popped up and recognized the camera. Ripping my first tape now.
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  23. Member
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    Ran into the issue where some of the individual scene files had not audio. The suggestions I found indicated to use ScenalyzerLive. Trying my first tape now.
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  24. Member
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    First capture didn't save a file in the folder that I expected. Not sure what happened...
    So, trying again, but this time it keeps bringing up a message that the harddisk is full. It's not. I've got about 3.5TB left on an NTFS drive (eSATA).
    I did a quick test run and specified to use the system's main drive and it started working fine and was creating an .avi file. But when I go back and re-specify to use the eSATA drive, it keeps saying the drive is full. Any ideas?
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  25. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    We don't know your machine's situation yet. But know this: when capping, it is ALWAYS strongly recommended to use a second, fast, non-boot (OS) drive to cap to.

    It's not clear which app you are using to capture, and that would guide us as to what to suggest next.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  26. Member
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    Currently using ScenalyzerLive 4.0

    I've resorted to let it capture the files to the system SSD. Once it's finished, I'm manually moving the files over to the eSATA drive. On my 3rd tape now. Seems to be working.
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  27. Member
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    The disk full error happens with drives above a certain capacity. I have experienced this error before and when I would switch to a smaller capacity drive, then I would not get the error. And the problem drive had plenty of free space.

    Brainiac
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  28. Member
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    Interesting. This is a 4TB drive....so I guess that would qualify for that scenario.
    Oh well...having to move files over isn't that big a deal.
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  29. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    You have checked and verified the captured files as being good/playbable before moving on to the next capture, right?

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  30. Member
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    Yep...it's all looking good so far.
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