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  1. Member
    Join Date: May 2010
    Location: Scandinavia
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    Hi!

    (I've also posted other threads relating audio editing in a different category, in case you wonder)

    Iím about to edit a bunch of Super 8 clips (previously converted into ProRes HQ - .mov) and Iím curious to find out which softwares other people use for this purpose?

    Iíve downloaded trial versions of Premiere Elements 12, Cyberlink PowerDirector 12 Ultra and Corel Videostudio x7 but as they're all quite comprehensive so I haven't been able to get a grip of all functions yet, and find out which of them best suits my needs.

    For instance, I've read about VirtualDub, AvySynth and Neatvideo but apart from the fact that I'm aware that these apps are common when capturing video tapes (which I'm also in the process of doing), I'd like to find out whether or not they can be useful during post-processing of other analog film formats.

    Someone recommended me using Premiere Elements for editing Super8 films specifically, but I'm curious to find out if there are other softwares (free or reasonably priced of course) you might recommend for this task?

    Thanks in advance.
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  2. Member
    Join Date: Jan 2007
    Location: Republic of Texas
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    Stop thinking of it as editing Super 8 film, or even in terms of an analog film format, because it seems you've already had it digitized and transferred to ProRes. Think, instead, of the tools you need to edit ProRes .mov video, which is best geared for Final Cut Pro. As long as you have the latest version of Quicktime loaded, Sony Vegas ought to be able to edit the video -- and smart render it to boot. There are tons of user tutorials for Vegas on Youtube to help novices get up to speed.

    And you shouldn't have started a new thread for the audio portion. It is easy enough to deal with it in this thread. Most editing programs will handle .wav format files without a stutter, and there are software tools (like Audacity, which is free) to help you get the job done.

    Another piece of advice is not to fear any software learning curve. You can get any job done with patience and a little bit of backbone.
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  3. Member
    Join Date: May 2010
    Location: Scandinavia
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    Originally Posted by filmboss80 View Post
    Stop thinking of it as editing Super 8 film, or even in terms of an analog film format, because it seems you've already had it digitized and transferred to ProRes. Think, instead, of the tools you need to edit ProRes .mov video, which is best geared for Final Cut Pro. As long as you have the latest version of Quicktime loaded, Sony Vegas ought to be able to edit the video -- and smart render it to boot. There are tons of user tutorials for Vegas on Youtube to help novices get up to speed.

    Thanks for your answer filmboss80. Is that Sony Vegas Pro you are referring to? If so, it might be slighty above my budget.

    And you shouldn't have started a new thread for the audio portion. It is easy enough to deal with it in this thread. Most editing programs will handle .wav format files without a stutter, and there are software tools (like Audacity, which is free) to help you get the job done.

    Ok, note taken. I guess I could use Audacity to try to Clean up the audio track, but would I face any potential sync-related problems when putting the audio track back in the Movie file after cleaning, if so is this a "generic" problem, or does some video editing softwares handle third-party software editing better than others? Maybe this is a silly question, but I'm just curious because it might just Point me in the right direction.

    Another piece of advice is not to fear any software learning curve. You can get any job done with patience and a little bit of backbone.
    Thanks, I'm not afraid to learn but I feel the first steps are the most difficult ones.


    What about third-party plugins, which software(s) offers the most range of useful extras (I'm not very interested in fancy editing or social network sharing)?

    Thanks in advance.
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  4. Member
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Location: Canada
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    Originally Posted by MrTemplar View Post

    What about third-party plugins, which software(s) offers the most range of useful extras (I'm not very interested in fancy editing or social network sharing)?
    What needs to be done specifically ? That determines what plugins and software you might want to look at

    For editing you can use a NLE as mentioned above. Some people prefer the style of GUI of one over another ,so try out a few trial versions

    For video clean up and restoration, you can use neat video, avisynth filters . There are many threads detailing different techniques and filters on this forum, and others like doom9. There are expensive dedicated restoration software as well eg. hs-diamant , davinci revival, pixel farm pf clean - most users won't invest in those unless they do it for a living
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  5. Member
    Join Date: Jan 2007
    Location: Republic of Texas
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    Mr Templar, it may be due to information overload that you assume you're going to need various third-party plugins, apps and filters. You have to think of these things in the same way you would think of tools in your workshop. In the same way that you would not need a reciprocating saw to nail up a few boards, you do not need a bevy of plugins and filters to do the video job at hand.

    As I see it from your posts, it seems your biggest hurdle will be in trying to use a simple, consumer based video editing program to handle the ProRes format on a Windows PC. (Did you request that format when the Super 8 films were digitized? If you're using a Mac with Final Cut Pro, then ProRes is ideal. Otherwise, you might need to convert to an intermediate, lossless avi format like Lagarith before you even begin to try editing.)

    Go to the tools section of this website and download the free MediaInfo software. Open one of your video files in it (the ones from the Super 8 transfers), expand the view to get the fullest amount of info, copy that info, and then come back and paste it here, so that we can see what you're dealing with. Also, be sure to clarify what sort of computer you intend to use for editing the video.
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  6. Member
    Join Date: May 2010
    Location: Scandinavia
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    Originally Posted by filmboss80 View Post
    Mr Templar, it may be due to information overload that you assume you're going to need various third-party plugins, apps and filters. You have to think of these things in the same way you would think of tools in your workshop. In the same way that you would not need a reciprocating saw to nail up a few boards, you do not need a bevy of plugins and filters to do the video job at hand.
    Thanks for your graphic explanation I see what you mean. My real-World tool box contains a wealth of different tools, some of which I rarely use. But sometimes they prove to be essential. However, and much like you say, due to information overload I find it difficult to filter out what's useful and what's not.

    As I see it from your posts, it seems your biggest hurdle will be in trying to use a simple, consumer based video editing program to handle the ProRes format on a Windows PC. (Did you request that format when the Super 8 films were digitized? If you're using a Mac with Final Cut Pro, then ProRes is ideal. Otherwise, you might need to convert to an intermediate, lossless avi format like Lagarith before you even begin to try editing.)
    Yes, I had the option to choose between ProRes (.mov) and a few non-editable formats. Let me just say that I don't fear learning new things, I actually enjoy that. I find it very rewarding. I use apps such as Lightroom and Silverfast regularly, and I've even tried some basic hmtl coding, so even though I'm far, far away from being an expert, I've got enough basic skills to get started, once I know which direction to go.

    Go to the tools section of this website and download the free MediaInfo software. Open one of your video files in it (the ones from the Super 8 transfers), expand the view to get the fullest amount of info, copy that info, and then come back and paste it here, so that we can see what you're dealing with. Also, be sure to clarify what sort of computer you intend to use for editing the video.
    I'm away from home right now but I'll look at it when I get home from work later.

    I have a laptop with a Intel core i7 3630QM cpu, 8GB RAM, one 256GB ssd and one 500GB HDD, along with a 1,5TB disk volume on a network unit + backup.

    I know a laptop isn't ideal for this stuff, but I have trial versions of Premiere Elements, Corel videostudio and Cyberlink Powerdirector installed, and they seem to deal ok with the files so far, even when other applications are running. If I have to buy a stationary PC then I guess that's ok, the problem is space, or lack of thereof. I honestly don't know where to make room for a Tower PC.

    Thanks for your input.
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  7. Member
    Join Date: May 2010
    Location: Scandinavia
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    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Originally Posted by MrTemplar View Post

    What about third-party plugins, which software(s) offers the most range of useful extras (I'm not very interested in fancy editing or social network sharing)?
    What needs to be done specifically ? That determines what plugins and software you might want to look at

    For editing you can use a NLE as mentioned above. Some people prefer the style of GUI of one over another ,so try out a few trial versions

    For video clean up and restoration, you can use neat video, avisynth filters . There are many threads detailing different techniques and filters on this forum, and others like doom9. There are expensive dedicated restoration software as well eg. hs-diamant , davinci revival, pixel farm pf clean - most users won't invest in those unless they do it for a living
    Thanks for your input poisondeathray.

    Basically I want to improve the sound as much as possible, especially make voices appear clearer (perhaps it's possible to minimise noise and emphasise voices). Then I might want to make slight adjustments in contrast, colour/white balance etc, maybe add some text and make some cutting. A few of the films are silent so for these I might want to add some background music as well.

    I don't need to add fancy effects of any kind. I "just" want to improve the film clips to a reasonable degree without burning a deep hole in my wallet.

    Do you mean that I should use Neat Video and Avisynth filters as complements/plugins to Premiere Elements (or whichever software I will use, or as stand-alones (no need to dig deep here, I just want to understand the basic workflow)?

    Again, thanks for your input.
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  8. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: Toronto Canada
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    As per NLEs such as VideoStudio, Vegas, Power Director, Premiere, etc - all are adequate in performing the necessary functions. Most arguments would be based on taste and features convenient to workflow.

    One key in using an editor, IMO, is using a smart render feature wherein you can render content after cuts, joins without loss in the results. You should use a separate encoder that is better suited if you want to convert to another format. Don't let the editor re-encode the video unless you have no choice (such as with filters/plugins from the editor you absolutely need in the video stream).

    VirtualDub, AviSynth and Neat Video are a bit of a different category.

    VirtualDub is great software, and can do basic edits with most AVI formats, but it's best known for capture. However, it can do some great restoration too with its abundance of filters.

    AviSynth can also do many edits, but it's mostly used for its rich filters and processing techniques, and loaded into other encoders for the final result (including VirtualDub). There are countless things you can do with it.

    Neat Video is restoration software you can purchase as a filter/plugin for VirtualDub and even other editors. This is incredible software and can do much in the way of noise reduction, chroma dancing, jitter restoration, sharpening, etc. This tool demands a bit of a learning curve, but it's very well worth it.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  9. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: Toronto Canada
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    Originally Posted by MrTemplar
    Basically I want to improve the sound as much as possible, especially make voices appear clearer (perhaps it's possible to minimise noise and emphasise voices).
    You can try Audacity (free software) for this. The key to eliminating audio noise is similar to eliminating video noise with Neat Video. You build a noise profile - isolate and define it and feed that to the app. For Audacity, just find a "quiet" section in the audio stream (no voices or music, only noise you want to clear).

    Try this with Audacity::

    -Load your audio stream.
    -Find as big a "quiet" space as you can (with only the noise).
    -Highlight it.
    -Effect->Noise Removal->Get Noise Profile.
    -Now highlight your whole audio stream (Control A).
    -Apply the effect to the whole stream now: Effect->Noise Removal (with your settings).
    -Click OK.

    That should make an improvement. Experiment with several settings, but you'll find you may not need many high values.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  10. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: Toronto Canada
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    Originally Posted by poisondeathray
    There are expensive dedicated restoration software as well eg. hs-diamant , davinci revival, pixel farm pf clean - most users won't invest in those unless they do it for a living
    Yes indeed.

    And not only are such tools VERY expensive, they are not "quick solutions" either. They are designed for professional use, for users dedicated to a project for days/weeks at a time applying tweaks, etc. This isn't feasible for most hobbyists.

    As well, I don't think most can run well on a home PC. They demand certain hardware/server environments best suited for a dedicated studio.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  11. Member
    Join Date: May 2010
    Location: Scandinavia
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    Originally Posted by PuzZLeR View Post
    Originally Posted by MrTemplar
    Basically I want to improve the sound as much as possible, especially make voices appear clearer (perhaps it's possible to minimise noise and emphasise voices).
    You can try Audacity (free software) for this. The key to eliminating audio noise is similar to eliminating video noise with Neat Video. You build a noise profile - isolate and define it and feed that to the app. For Audacity, just find a "quiet" section in the audio stream (no voices or music, only noise you want to clear).

    Try this with Audacity::

    -Load your audio stream.
    -Find as big a "quiet" space as you can (with only the noise).
    -Highlight it.
    -Effect->Noise Removal->Get Noise Profile.
    -Now highlight your whole audio stream (Control A).
    -Apply the effect to the whole stream now: Effect->Noise Removal (with your settings).
    -Click OK.

    That should make an improvement. Experiment with several settings, but you'll find you may not need many high values.
    That's awsome. Thanks PuzZLeR for sharing this hands-on information.
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  12. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: Toronto Canada
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    Originally Posted by MrTemplar
    That's awsome. Thanks PuzZLeR for sharing this hands-on information.
    You're welcome.

    Actually, most of it was a cut-and-paste from another one of my posts in another thread, but hey, if it helps, great! But nevertheless, Audacity is great software that should be in every A/V fan's computer.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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