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  1. Member
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    I have old family videos I transfered from my old 8mm camcorder (now >broke) to dvd via stand alone recorder. I had used some poorer grade >and RW dvd's at the time (ignorant mistake) I now want to dup them "bit for bit" to archival disks. The problem is when trying to use dvdshrink3.2, I get an error message "improper dvd structure" if there is more than one title on the disk. (reauthoring does not work) I need different software to create the audio-ts and video-ts folders to burn. I need it to be simple. (could not figure out nero) And yes they are all finalized and plays fine in other machines. I don't want to have to transfer the old fashioned way (real time from stand alone player to recorder) because passing through a/d converters on both ends I will loose quality and there is the time consideration. Needs to be bit for bit. Thanks, Mark.
    p.s. xphome sp3 tripplecore proc. single asus dvd drive, I use imageburn for burning.
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    All you need is imgburn. 2 steps.

    1) Create Image file from disk.
    2) Write image file to (new) disk.
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    Are you really sure that they ALL, as in EVERY one of them, play fine in "other machines"? I ask because you say you used RW discs. I don't know if you know this but re-writable discs don't last forever because of the materials they are made with. Whether they last 1 or 2 years or longer depends on a lot of different factors. smrpix's advice is the best and simplest approach if they really are in OK shape at this time.

    You're a new member here so I suppose it's worth mentioning that we only recommend using Taiyo Yuden (you'll have to buy them online) or Verbatim DVD blanks. Avoid RW and use -R or +R as you wish. Any modern DVD/BD player won't care whether it has -R or +R discs to play. -R works a little better on much older players. If you go with Verbatim do avoid their "Life" series, which is NOT the same as "Data Life Plus" (you'll have to buy Data Life Plus online). Anything not "Life" series is first rate media. Life is Verbatim's budget line and lower quality discs for idiot customers who think that all brands are identical and just buy whatever they can find. If you need RW discs in the future for temporary use, Verbatim makes the best ones. Taiyo Yuden doesn't make RW at all. And if you want DL (Dual Layer) discs, use Verbatims DVD+R DL first, then Verbatim's DVD-R DL (only if you can't find the +R DL ones) and don't use any other brand if you can find Verbatim. Taiyo Yuden does make DVD-R DL, but they are very costly and you will likely never see them anywhere. DVD+R DL actually works better than DVD-R DL but for single layer it really doesn't matter if you use -R or +R.
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  4. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Didn't all recordable DVDs have an RW logo somewhere on them at one time?
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    Don't many / most / all DVD-RW discs have CPRM on them by default? I remember having to decrypt family videos that I capped with a standalone....
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  6. Member
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    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Didn't all recordable DVDs have an RW logo somewhere on them at one time?
    Only DVD+R discs have this VERY confusing logo.
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    Originally Posted by dLee View Post
    Don't many / most / all DVD-RW discs have CPRM on them by default? I remember having to decrypt family videos that I capped with a standalone....
    This is not correct. CPRM has nothing to do with the media itself and it is not on media "by default". It's a way of writing encrypted data to discs and while you might see it when DVD-RW discs are used with a DVD recorder, it's not "on them by default" as it's a thing of the recorder itself and not the media.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 01:55.
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    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    Originally Posted by dLee View Post
    Don't many / most / all DVD-RW discs have CPRM on them by default? I remember having to decrypt family videos that I capped with a standalone....
    This is not correct. CPRM has nothing to do with the media itself and it is not on media "by default". It's a way of writing encrypted data to discs and while you might see it when DVD-RW discs are used with a DVD recorder, it's not "on them by default" as it's a thing of the recorder itself and not the media.
    Then why do I have a Pioneer DVD-RW disc that says "with CPRM" on the front and back of the jewel case?
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  10. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    The only universally compatible DVD disc is DVD-R. Many players won't work with "RW", some won't work with +R. You can use whatever you want, but there should be no surprises with DVD-R.
    Unless of course you had one of the many Sony players back in the day that accepted nothing recordable.
    http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/363053-DVD-R-not-playing-in-DVD-player-but-playing-...=1#post2308045

    So....universally - No.
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  11. Member orsetto's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smrpix View Post
    All you need is imgburn. 2 steps.

    1) Create Image file from disk.
    2) Write image file to (new) disk.
    +1

    dvdshrink is likely freaking out because these old RW discs have some wacko formatting details recognized as "legit dvd" only by hardware players/recorders. Many standalones employed a variety of eccentric recording quirks that are beginning to cause issues years later, now that we're backing up old discs to HDDs, media players and fresh dvds. We never noticed problems when simply playing the discs in a standalone, but various software tools will choke on them unexpectedly.

    The most quirky standalones were Philips/Magnavox/Toshiba, JVC, and Pioneer/Sony. Philips/Magnavox/Toshiba use their bizarro-world VR+ file offshoot that seems to blow chunks in anything but a dedicated hardware player. JVC used some sort of haywire file links and lacked a crucial PGC entry, while Pioneer/Sony discs lack the same critical PGC bit as JVC. Other recorders may have similar issues, the only ones that appear to be completely software-compatible are the Panasonics.

    In some cases you can repair the flakey formatting by ripping the VIDEO_TS folder from old DVD to your PC, running it thru a utility like pgcEdit, and making a corrected backup dvd. In other cases, its much simpler to just tell ImgBurn to make a bit-for-bit dvd copy. If your discs are truly RW, the chance they contain quirks that would flummox dvdshrink multiplies. To avoid "gotchas", use ImgBurn to make straight-up dupes as smrpix suggested (preferably to Verbatim AZO media). Cloning apps like dvdshrink are programmed to automatically restructure weird Hollywood dvds on-the-fly: they can misinterpret some dvd-recorder discs as being "not real dvds." ImgBurn will dupe the existing structure instead of trying (and failing) to fix it first.
    Last edited by orsetto; 13th Mar 2014 at 13:46.
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  12. Member
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    http://forum.videohelp.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24079&stc=1&d=1394739887

    If memory serves, CPRM is a software infection intentionally added to DVD-RW to inhibit copying....
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  13. Member
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    Originally Posted by dLee View Post
    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    Originally Posted by dLee View Post
    Don't many / most / all DVD-RW discs have CPRM on them by default? I remember having to decrypt family videos that I capped with a standalone....
    This is not correct. CPRM has nothing to do with the media itself and it is not on media "by default". It's a way of writing encrypted data to discs and while you might see it when DVD-RW discs are used with a DVD recorder, it's not "on them by default" as it's a thing of the recorder itself and not the media.
    Then why do I have a Pioneer DVD-RW disc that says "with CPRM" on the front and back of the jewel case?
    The DVD recorder applies CPRM, not the DVD itself. The "with CPRM" means that the DVD is CPRM compatible. CPRM compatibility is needed to record content which includes an analog or digital "copy once" flag and thus requires encryption to be used on recordings so that no further copies can be made. If the "copy freely" flag is used on the content instead, CPRM encryption won't be applied to recordings, even if the DVD is CPRM compatible.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 13th Mar 2014 at 14:12.
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  14. Member
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by dLee View Post
    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    Originally Posted by dLee View Post
    Don't many / most / all DVD-RW discs have CPRM on them by default? I remember having to decrypt family videos that I capped with a standalone....
    This is not correct. CPRM has nothing to do with the media itself and it is not on media "by default". It's a way of writing encrypted data to discs and while you might see it when DVD-RW discs are used with a DVD recorder, it's not "on them by default" as it's a thing of the recorder itself and not the media.
    Then why do I have a Pioneer DVD-RW disc that says "with CPRM" on the front and back of the jewel case?
    The DVD recorder applies CPRM, not the DVD itself. The "with CPRM" means that the DVD is CPRM compatible. CPRM compatibility is needed to record content which includes an analog or digital "copy once" flag and thus requires encryption to be used on recordings so that no further copies can be made. If the "copy freely" flag is used on the content instead, CPRM encryption won't be applied to recordings, even if the DVD is CPRM compatible.
    My Panasonic DMR ES20 recordings were always encrypted - including those that were VHS and Hi8 caps of family videos that were not broadcast. It is the only standalone that I owned, so I don't know the behavior of other brands / models.

    But CPRM could be a factor in the OP's inability to duplicate his recordings.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 01:55.
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  16. Member
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    [QUOTE=dLee;2308290]
    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post

    Then why do I have a Pioneer DVD-RW disc that says "with CPRM" on the front and back of the jewel case?
    Then why do I have a Verbatim DVD-RW (I just looked at it) that does NOT have a reference to CPRM on it? I have the original packaging and there's no reference to CPRM.

    I think you are misinterpreting what Pioneer is saying. I think they are saying "This disc supports CPRM" rather than "This disc has CPRM on it and NOTHING you can do can remove it, sucka!".
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  17. Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    "This disc has CPRM on it and NOTHING you can do can remove it, sucka!".
    Except relcprm.
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    Originally Posted by dLee View Post
    My Panasonic DMR ES20 recordings were always encrypted - including those that were VHS and Hi8 caps of family videos that were not broadcast. It is the only standalone that I owned, so I don't know the behavior of other brands / models.
    Noise in analog signals can sometimes fool DVD recorders and make it appear that the copy-once flag or even Macrovision is present in home video. ..or maybe your DVD recorder was simply defective.

    All DVD-RAM discs are CPRM-compliant, and some older Panasonics like mine require them for recording copy-once protected content. However, my Panasonic DMR-ES10 made just one CPRM-encrypted recording using them. Apparently the copy-once flag was accidentally added to an analog over-the-air broadcast that I was recording.

    Originally Posted by dLee View Post
    But CPRM could be a factor in the OP's inability to duplicate his recordings.
    It isn't very likely. Most DVD-RW discs sold in the US were not CPRM compliant. People who needed them to record protected cable TV channels often had a hard time finding them. Japanese-made discs were the only ones I can remember seeing that provided the feature.
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  19. Member
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    [QUOTE=jman98;2308343]
    Originally Posted by dLee View Post
    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post

    Then why do I have a Pioneer DVD-RW disc that says "with CPRM" on the front and back of the jewel case?
    Then why do I have a Verbatim DVD-RW (I just looked at it) that does NOT have a reference to CPRM on it? I have the original packaging and there's no reference to CPRM.

    I think you are misinterpreting what Pioneer is saying. I think they are saying "This disc supports CPRM" rather than "This disc has CPRM on it and NOTHING you can do can remove it, sucka!".
    My original point was that CPRM may be affecting the OP's ability to duplicate his discs.

    Ok, so according to Wikipedia and usually_quiet, the recorder sets the flag. Can it be reset once recorded? I was only able to use the recordings after I ripped (decrypt and copy) to HDD. I think DVD Shrink could remove it while ripping, back in those days.

    Is CPRM part of the DVD-RW spec - or - could a recorder set the flag on a DVDR?

    My Verbatim DVD-RW's don't mention CPRM on the cakebox either, but if recorded on my DMR-ES20, it was there.

    Maybe Jagabo has a solution - Does it change the flag on the DVD-RW or on copied files?


    Edit: Didn't see usually_quiet's post before posting this.
    Last edited by dLee; 13th Mar 2014 at 17:16.
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    Originally Posted by dLee View Post
    My original point was that CPRM may be affecting the OP's ability to duplicate his discs.

    Ok, so according to Wikipedia and usually_quiet, the recorder sets the flag. Can it be reset once recorded? I was only able to use the recordings after I ripped (decrypt and copy) to HDD. I think DVD Shrink could remove it while ripping, back in those days.

    Is CPRM part of the DVD-RW spec - or - could a recorder set the flag on a DVDR?

    My Verbatim DVD-RW's don't mention CPRM on the cakebox either, but if recorded on my DMR-ES20, it was there.

    Maybe Jagabo has a solution - Does it change the flag on the DVD-RW or on copied files?


    Edit: Didn't see usually_quiet's post before posting this.
    Relcprm is required to remove CPRM encryption. If DVD Shrink could decipher the disc then it wasn't CPRM encrypted, and something else was at work, perhaps -VR recording mode.
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    Wow, a lot of info here. First of all, the problem occurs with any brand of disk. Even plain old verbatim 95098 +R's (I don't have many rw's) That is what I mostly use btw. Right now I can record something on my maganavox mdr515h and finalize it. With only one title shrink works fine. With 2 or more titles, it will not... Same with my old sony stand alone. I'll give that imageburn thing a try though. It is suppose to be bad weather tomorrow, so I won't be working on the garden and I'll have time to play with it. Thanks, Mes.

    p.s., I have the following stand alone players;. toshiba sd4700 as my main player. Also an old apex1500 an old cyberhome for r2 pal, a philips that plays anything including wmp files and of course my magnavox HDD that I use primarily for time shifing on the hard drive, and my old sony recorder that recorded a lot of my old stuff.
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    Originally Posted by pygar77 View Post
    Wow, a lot of info here. First of all, the problem occurs with any brand of disk. Even plain old verbatim 95098 +R's (I don't have many rw's) That is what I mostly use btw. Right now I can record something on my maganavox mdr515h and finalize it. With only one title shrink works fine. With 2 or more titles, it will not... Same with my old sony stand alone. I'll give that imageburn thing a try though. It is suppose to be bad weather tomorrow, so I won't be working on the garden and I'll have time to play with it. Thanks, Mes.

    p.s., I have the following stand alone players;. toshiba sd4700 as my main player. Also an old apex1500 an old cyberhome for r2 pal, a philips that plays anything including wmp files and of course my magnavox HDD that I use primarily for time shifing on the hard drive, and my old sony recorder that recorded a lot of my old stuff.
    I have a MDR513H. Magnavox recorders use something called +VR mode to record, not DVD video mode, or VR mode, like some other recorders offer. The +VR file structure includes a VIDEO_TS folder like a DVD video recording, but the file structure isn't truly the same, and it confuses programs like DVD Shrink that are designed to work with true DVD video discs.
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  23. Member orsetto's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pygar77 View Post
    Right now I can record something on my maganavox mdr515h and finalize it. With only one title shrink works fine. With 2 or more titles, it will not...
    BINGO: there's your problem in a nutshell. The Magnavox/Philips/Toshiba/Sylvania/Funai units employ their own exclusive alternate-universe formatting of the VIDEO_TS files (+VR, VR+, or whatever the hell they're calling it now). It is a hybrid of the +R DVD Video and +VR exclusive-to-recorders standards (which means it makes a bloody mess of both to no good end). When finalized, hardware disc players and most software disc players will usually overlook the strange formatting and play the discs thru as if they were normal DVDs. But DVD editing, re-authoring and cloning/shrink software takes one look at this harebrained +VR VIDEO_RM idiocy and gags on it.

    Many software developers opted not to update their programs to handle this "renegade" format. There are workarounds if you really need to do extensive work on a Magnavox DVD, which you can read about here. If all you actually need to do is make backup copies, save yourself the trouble and just use the ImgBurn duplication function. Load your Magnavox DVD, press the ImgBurn "Make Disc Image" button, load a blank DVD, and press the ImgBurn "Burn Disc Image" button. Repeat for as many copies you need for each DVD. ImgBurn does not attempt to analyze or interpret a disc format when in Disc Image duplication mode, it just makes an exact copy. Software thats designed primarily to dupe commercial dvds, like dvdShrink, tends to analyze and re-interpret the DVD structure and attempt to repair it: such software will go into "WTF" mode when faced with a Magnavox/Toshiba finalized disc.

    Same with my old sony stand alone.
    This is a similar but different problem (various Sony models, esp older units, had issues with poor burn quality). Here again the best option for backup copies is ImgBurn disc image dupe mode.
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    Image Burn works! Yee Harrr!:. I was able to transfer my 10 year old rw's and -r's with more than one title to some nice new verbatims.
    Most of those were actualy recorded on my old sony rdr gx300. I actualy had it set for dvd video mode recording too. Still freaked out shrink. Anyway, I am very gratefull that you-all told me about imageburn. It is a program I already had. But I never realy used that part of the program before. At any rate, I am breathing a sigh of relief. Much thanks. Mark.
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