Matrox MX02 - ADVC110 - Hauppauge 1414 - VHS capture

[jagabo]

matrox.avi doesn't have the field co-mingling problem. So I think this narrows the problem down to something about capturing with VirtualDub. There are multiple capture systems in Windows (VFW, WDM). It's possible that VirtualDub us using a different system than the other programs -- and that only one of them is borked.

In VirtualDub, try changing capture devices in the Device menu if there are other options. Make sure Video -> Filter Chain is disabled. Go through all the other items on the Video menu and make sure there's nothing that's resizing or otherwise filtering the frame.

[O-Manning]

Hi again,

I can't believe it could be this simple but actually the Matrox file you just looked at was captured by the Matrox utility (not Virtual Dub). It was the latest version they had as an update and I downloaded right before making the file you just looked at.
The version I had been using I had downloaded around a month ago.

So either they fixed something that was causing a known co-mingling problem, or whatever new bug/patch/fixes they made with the newest update corrected my situation.

They said to only view their captures with the Matrox utility or Adobe Premiere Pro CC or CS6 which they say are compatible with their files.
I have the trial version of Pro CC which will run out in 3 days...so I need to work with that program a little more to see what it offers for options.

I DO NOT see the interlace problem with Adobe Pro CC but I still see what I guess are interlace artifacts with Windows Media Player with the file I just sent you.

Could you look at it with Windows Media player? If you don't see the interlace situation then it might be the monitor I'm using or something else with my windows media player.
I realize WMP may not be the best or even a standard to base video quality on but it is what I was using all along and first brought to my attention the "Zig zag" situation as I described it initially.


I'm still baffled as to why captures from the other 3 devices have never given me the de-interlacing problem with Windows media player.

So I'm still somewhat concerned that even if the co-mingling problem is now resolved by the Matrox utility --- that WMD still will not play the Matrox videos without the zig zag view --- is there some other long-term situation I'll have someday when I try to edit those Matrox captured files with "Brand X" video editing software and will compatibility issues come up so I won't able to edit them properly or even view them.

I'm probably jumping way too far ahead of things but once I'm through the spring planting season I'll have to do a lot more captures and work with the TBC settings on the VCRs and also the TVOne TBC settings to see if I can improve on the over-sharpening issue I have that you mentioned.
Also to get the other options tweaked as best I can during the capture such as chroma, color, brightness, contrast etc so they won't be as far off for the editing software to adjust someday.

Thanks

Update...
I did check those Virtual Dub settings you mentioned.
Filter chain is NOT enabled, and I did not see any resizing or filtering options changed or added.
Other than the cropping and Bob Doubler settings/options I have not changed any of the default settings in Virtual Dub.

[jagabo]

On my computer WMP deinterlaces matrox.avi. I don't see comb artifacts, just a few deinterlacing artifacts. I'm using ffdshow as the MMES decoder (that appears to be a high quality, all I frame MPEG codec). But I wouldn't worry much about how WMP plays the file. This is your acquisition format not your delivery/viewing format. What matters is if the software you intend to edit with supports the codec and can handle the interlacing.

[O-Manning]

Hi again,

I'm not worried so much how the videos look in WMP but since I have been using that program as kind of as a baseline for the initial captures of all the devices I would like to use the same program for comparisons of future captures.



One thing I will do but not right now is to capture another basketball game with VirtualDub.
I have not changed or updated this program so in theory the co-mingling problem should still be there when capturing from the Matrox MXO2, since the only thing that has changed (apparently corrected the co-mingling situation) that I can tell is that I'm using the updated version of Matrox Utilities.

I'm sure all it updated was the Matrox utility program, and was NOT a "firmware" update to the MXO2 device, but I am going to make sure by asking the Maxtro support.

I have to give this a break for a while and let my head clear...then get back to it in a couple months after the hectic spring work is over.

You have a safe summer ahead and take care.

[jagabo]

the only thing that has changed (apparently corrected the co-mingling situation) that I can tell is that I'm using the updated version of Matrox Utilities.

I'm sure all it updated was the Matrox utility program, and was NOT a "firmware" update to the MXO2 device, but I am going to make sure by asking the Maxtro support.

The capture driver may have been responsible.

You can duplicate the effect with a good capture: open it in VirtualDub and Resize a little smaller, say 720x480 to 720x474 (don't enable the interlaced option). Then deinterlace with Bob Doubler. You'll see the same torn lines.

[O-Manning]

Well I said I was going to give it a break but just had to see what ffdshow is all about so I downloaded it but didn't know how/why it would not work with my WMP. I searched the Internet and found a site that explained why and the solution was a utility that would easily turn on/off window's media foundation options that WMP 12 uses.
So I downloaded the small program they suggested and called Filter Tweaker which allows me to disable and change default windows media codecs.


One thing happened that I had been wondering why since first using the MXO2, and is this...

Previous to installing ffdshow and running the filter tweaker, when I used Windows Explorer in thumbnail view all of the AVI files created by the other capture devices would show the first frame of the video in each thumbnail file - EXCEPT for the Matrox video files.
For the thumbnail views of the Matrox videos shown in Windows Explorer there was a generic windows icon file image, but no video frame view.

As soon as I disabled the AVI option of Media Foundation with filter tweaker, then the thumbnail views of the Matrox captures showed the first frame of the videos for the first time - just like the other device captures always did.

Not knowing how the thumbnail preview works in Windows Explorer (and it doesn't matter) this new discovery that allows me to preview the video image in Windows Explorer for the Matrox captures really shows there is a lot going on in the hidden background of windows and video capture programs & their various codecs.

Again, here is a situation that all of the other videos captured by the non-Matrox devices functioned "normally" and the Matrox files were the ones to not function like the other device video files did.

That I continue to run into more variables/incompatibilities with the MXO2 and not the other devices is really steering me away from using it to make my permanent captures...What other scenarios may come up that I haven't discovered yet with the Matrox device?

I'm not here to bash the Matrox product...just can't believe I'm the only one seeing these things...this newly discovered Windows Explorer issue is not critical at all, but I sure would hate to spend hundreds of hours capturing videos only to find out in the future that they will be difficult to edit.

---------------

Thanks for the "heads-up" in your last post about how to re-create the same torn lines with a good capture.

I hope that maybe some of these situations I been asking you for help with has maybe even helped you to understand the technical aspects just a little better about the video capture world by delving into it even deeper.
Either way you must really enjoy working with and helping others to trouble shoot things based on the way you "hang in their" with my bumbling questions.