Blu-ray replacement coming in 2015

[DarrellS]

Consumers were forced to either buy a digital converter box, buy a new TV or order Cable TV which still supported analog. Ask all the old people what they thought when suddenly their TVs could no longer receive a signal. No, the government did not force the TV manufacturers to stop building SD TVs. The manufacturers lobbied the government to force everyone to buy HDTVs. At the time, HDTVs had been around for a while but most people were happy with their 35" Sony Trinatrons. Big screen TVs were not cheap back then. VCRs couldn't record ATSC so people were forced to replace their VCRs with DVD recorders or buy HD capture cards and record with their PCs.

Digital broadcast may support SD resolutions but not ATSC signals which those resolutions were broadcast with.

[OllieTSB]

Yes, that 2003 regime... they cemented the regional monopolies for the cable providers, ensuring no fair or open competition. they stripped out masses of equipment into landfills for our future and THEN refused to allow a la carte ordering of channels, as was a very popular discussion for 20 years!

I love finding those old politico comments - "This new law will ensure lower costs to consumers..."

Anyone paying less for Cable-TV now than they were in 2000? In 1990? TimeWarner, ComCast and AT&T all now offer 10-30 fewer channels in their Basic Tier than they did back then, AND charge more for those levels. They HAVE increased the number of shopping channels from 1990's level.

I still want to see the Burn Times on this 'replacement' as well as real-life longevity, the propensity for coaster-making and the price. BDs opened in the $5-per-disk range. Now, the best consumer grades are closer to $2, but there are still those hyped 'archive' versions that push closer to $5 per, with a lot of "forever" marketing hype.

Anyone buying JAZZ or ZIP floppies (OR DRIVES!) lately? Those had the same "forever" hype, too... they neglected to comment that no drive would be available to access them in even 15 years, much less those touted '50 or more'.

Ah, the joys of vinyl and phonographs...

[_Al_]

people do not need TV, cables, live broadcast anymore ... other thing is that we are hooked up to it, like to a drug or whatever that is addicted, we take it for granted, but we do not need that at all, kids almost do not watch live TV anymore, they choose what they want to watch

older people need TV as a company, that is for sure, so that digital-analog converter is a solution if there is still good CRT at home, I do not see a problem, this works not only for older people ...

as for CRT, in the USA you ask friends if they have some CRT in the basement that dust falling on it, unused, or just drive by in a decent neighborhood before garbage is taken and you can collect enough CRT's for 100 years to come (in USA), if that is not a solution, then there is ebay etc.

any CRT can be connected to media player (like WDTV Live) that will change any "dumb"CRT into a home LAN hub, you can watch any content on it, HD, whatever,

sure it gets a bit complicated, but so telegraph was really easy back then, you cannot stop these things to go forward

[Mephesto]

I agreed with everything you said about DVDs and thumb drives and then out of the blue, you go and call me a troll.

I didn't say you were a troll, I said you were acting like one because you made a claim of superior quality and provided lower bitrate as proof and nothing else to quantify the quality. Now you post pictures with no comparison for reference which is equally meaningless.
H265 is only slightly better than x264 at present, not the 33-50% you claim.

I couldn't remember ever seeing you in the HEVC threads so I do a search and the only thing I can find is you attacking the new format before it was even released.

Eh? I participated and posted a couple test reports of DivxHEVC, x265 and HM10 before HEVC was officially out. Whatever I said about it were solid facts at the time. I look forward to H265's development and can't wait for it to trash x264.

@MindController,
Cranberry juice tastes worse than Jewish wine that someone pissed in, so I'll pass.

[DarrellS]

I wasn't trying to do any official comparison like you and PDR assumed that I was doing. I was just standing up for a compression that people are saying is total crap. My tests are all on animations that I've created in Photoshop with solid backgrounds. I can't see myself using HEVC as video compression for full length movies (or even 10 minute clips) since it is so slow but for 10 frame animations, it works pretty well for me.

I have seen low resolution videos that looked pretty bad but most were from low quality to start with and at ultrafast settings. Even tests that I have made but again, where HEVC excels is at high resolutions.

It doesn't seem to matter if I use ultrafast settings with the animations or medium. I can't really tell the difference but for moving pictures, the ultrafast files that I created looked pretty bad.

Here is the Wiki page for HEVC where comparisons are made. Nobody is saying that HEVC produces superior quality compared to H264 but that HEVC can produce the same quality as H264 at lower bit rates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding

[johns0]

Animations are the easiest to compress,best to use fast scenes such as sports for compression testing.

[glenpinn]

stop all the BS about televisions and governments FORCING people to change, that includes you DarrellS, your just adding more fuel to this fire and making it worse.

here in australia, the government has only just recently stopped all analog tv broadcasts, everyone had to get a digital box, or move on and upgrade their old CRAP, this is 2014 for crying out loud.

what our government does (unlike other selfish governments around the world) actually offers those disadvantaged in the community (pensioners etc) a rebate towards the digital box, so they are not out of pocket by very much, and when i come to think of it, all those who i knew who used to have an old analog tv also had a set top box with it anyway.

if you want to sit in your arm chair watching pathetic analog tv, then there is a serious problem somewhere, and everyone i know has now got a HD tv of some kind, i have not seen an old crt tv here where i live for many many years, some are just whinging in here to stir the pot me thinks.

time to move on.

[Cornucopia]

@glenpinn, whatever I may feel about my own American government, you ought to know they ALSO provided a rebate for a digital converter box JUST LIKE YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT, and ostensibly for the same reason. Please get your facts straight and don't add in your own prejudices.

BTW, there are still and probably will be still for years to come MANY reasons for owning "official" physical copies of your media (which is usually on optical disc) as opposed to virtual copies (whether via files or VideoOnDemand/PPV/Streaming). Not all of them are economically-based either (LowestCommonDenominator, Swappable/Sellable - without getting into legal trouble, not beholden to whims of "Big Brother"/Off-the-Grid).

Clearly, the market will greatly expand in the realm of File-based & Virtual copies of media, over and above what the physical media market has, but there is no reason to think the physical media, or some people's preference for it, is in any way bad or to be denigrated, nor to assume that it HAS to be removed or made defunct. It doesn't even need to shrink (much), it already is being eclipsed. Just seems like there are a LOT of haters out there. Geez, what's it done to you-killed your Grandma, stole your girlfriend!?

Finally, "time to move on" is exactly the kind of thing that a young person would say without regard to older people who are set in their ways. (And just so you don't think me biased, yes I am somewhat older, but not set in my ways. In fact, I am an enthusiast for many of the newest tech trends, as evidenced by many of my threads here.)
I don't expect someone who hasn't experienced enough in life to know how one's "ways" can be easy to get set in, but I'm telling you: it does happen (possibly to YOU) and you should have a little sympathy for them, even if you can't fully understand it yet. And it is something that markets ought to take into account if they want to be smart about their profits.

*****************

Trying to get back to topic: The OP's referenced article makes sense for big media's needs and for other corporate backup/archive needs (particularly those who DON'T want to rely solely on one - magnetic - media type). But consumers will likely be slow on the uptake of 4k TVs because of economics and the lack of available (and economical) 4k material to showcase it. Right now, not much exists in the consumer marketplace to showcase 4k TV except a few 4k cameras, and to some extent 3D. 4k streaming is coming, but unless you are one of the lucky few to have Ultra High Bandwidth, it would look like crap. No, the perfect storm is yet to come for 4k (mass acceptance & use of h265 in hardware, Gigibit/Fibre Internet access).
Or - there goes that word again - PHYSICAL media. One more reason it is still important: guaranteed higher bandwidth than many virtual sources.

So, the "successor" to BD won't grow out of its expected niche business market unless and until Hollywood & other Big Media make their move to provide those kinds of titles to consumers. But I honestly don't know if they really want to (create an "Application Format"). BD can do just fine with 1080p24 right now, even in 3D. Only if there were a demand (not likely-chicken & egg cycle), or if they thought they could get some additional "premium" revenue. And it would certainly be premium for a while to come: look at how BD still is only rarely discounted for the GOOD titles. They still understand BD to be a premium. And since a premium on top of a current premium makes for a very high & narrow echelon of customers, uptake won't grow much either. Much like SACD or DVD-Audio. And I would guess that, like SACD, there would be NO way for 4k/UHD Disc titles to play in computers, nor any way for them to burn (using the same format). This would be mainly to keep control over who can Create and who can't, as well as to avoid breaking/bypassing copy protections (which I'm sure would be newer and more complicated). So, like SACD and DVD-A, it would not grow due to home/prosumer DIY enthusiasm, like CD & DVD did and BD is only doing part-way.

Plus, the BD spec can be amended if need be, just like it has for BDXL and 3D, to include 4k/UHD on additional layers, and with supplemental copy protection. No need to reinvent the wheel.

So, "Archive Disc" makes sense in the corporate world, but I'm guessing that's about all it would ever be unless other unforeseen circumstances change the way the game is played.

Scott

<edit>I estimate that were H'wood to use a new disc that supported 3D, 4k/UHD, HFR, HDR, xyColor/WiderGamut/HigherBitdepth, or some multiple combinations of those, but using probably h265 as a preferred (if not only) codec, it would possibly need to be able to accommodate up to ~400 Mbps throughput, in addition to the stated size, to be able to fully incorporate all those features. Since their stated bitrate capability right now is 216Mbps, this might mean that either they would intend to have a format where only one or 2 of those extended features is available at any one time, or they wouldn't really consider it to be a realtime playback medium. Which further supports my understanding that it is mainly intended as an "archive" medium.</edit>

[PuzZLeR]

Even if it was relevant to this thread, as far as I think of x264 vs x265 - Yaaaaaaaaaaaawnnn. Same ol' boring thing like Xvid vs x264 some 8 or so years ago. Waste of time.

As for optical media this size, it would have been an amazing event if HDDs didn't get so much larger in the last half decade. As of now, it's - meh.

For example, when the big news came out over a decade ago of a 100GB disc, it was huge - remember the blu-ray thing that was coming? Too bad it never really became a realistically available and affordable data format until HDDs became 10x-40x as big.

1TB on a disc? By the time it comes out? With 20TB HDDs available for $150US by then a spindle of 25 1TB discs for $999US would be ... meh...

And the consumer trend is going digital/streaming now, not optical disc. A good example is UV CFF. UHD is likely going to take this route too.

[glenpinn]

Even if it was relevant to this thread, as far as I think of x264 vs x265 - Yaaaaaaaaaaaawnnn. Same ol' boring thing like Xvid vs x264 some 8 or so years ago. Waste of time.

exactly, x265 is YAWN material right now, and i still cant work out what all the fuss is about, h265 is nowhere near ready, and contrary to "popular" myth, many experts are still predicting 3 to 5 years before it is mainstream, and i agree with them, but thats my own personal opinion, if others want to think otherwise, then they can.

@glenpinn, whatever I may feel about my own American government, you ought to know they ALSO provided a rebate for a digital converter box JUST LIKE YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT, and ostensibly for the same reason. Please get your facts straight and don't add in your own prejudices.

i never made any such prejudices, i said (unlike other selfish governments around the world) but i did not mention any specific government by country, so you get your facts right before criticizing what i say, and good for you and your people if your government did give you all the rebate, but personally i dont see why any government should have to.

Finally, "time to move on" is exactly the kind of thing that a young person would say without regard to older people who are set in their ways. (And just so you don't think me biased, yes I am somewhat older, but not set in my ways............
I don't expect someone who hasn't experienced enough in life to know how one's "ways" can be easy to get set in, but I'm telling you: it does happen (possibly to YOU) and you should have a little sympathy for them

hey buddy, dont assume too much about other people ok, i am 57, not some upstart kid just out of my teens, and i am not some new age older tech savvy guy who thinks like the youngens and moves with the times.

i hate advances in technology as much as other people do, but only in certain areas, i dont like mobiles, i dont text, and i dont do social media, but with television and video, i am all for the progress from the old days, and i have no sympathy for anyone who is still wanting to live back in the dark ages, if you at least cant buy a 2nd hand HD tv then you might as well sit in your chair and read a book.

if this is selfish of me, then so be it, personally i dont care, but like i already said, where i come from, everyone has had a HD tv for several years, so i dont know why all this analog crap has even been raised, and is still being talked about.

the same applies to video, i have been shooting weddings since 2004 when we were using DV tape cameras shooting in dvd format, and at the time it was great, but times have changed, and now its all shot in HD, and all output onto portable drives for playback on tv, no more horrible optical media, no more dvd players, no bluray players.

so if you dont "move on" your going to be left behind.

[VideoChunkster]

No love in this place lately, 2 threads going strong on bitterness. Love each oher dammit

[glenpinn]

No love in this place lately, 2 threads going strong on bitterness. Love each oher dammit

some members just cant help themselves and start making assumptions about other people, and taking what they say out of context, and people need to stop crying over old technology, be it television, computers, laptops or whatever.

apart from filming weddings, i am also a part time computer/laptop service tech, and i have to deal with many older people who have older machines running windows XP, and who are having issues with these machines that require fixing, and in 90% of cases, it is a lot more expensive to fix their old machine than it is to buy a brand new one, but the issue with this comes down to these people having to move on to newer technology, and many have a lot of difficulty doing so initially.

i now train people, mostly elderly people, with their transition from windows XP to windows 8, as many elderly people were still using XP, and it is a very daunting task for them to move over, and as much as i hate to see them have to, they actually have no choice, thats just the way things are in life, but they cope, and after a few weeks, everything is ok.

the same with TV, analog is gone, and everyone needs to move on and stop complaining, thats just the way it is.

[Chopmeister]

Back on topic.

I don't care much for 4K video, and it will be ages before I will upgrade, even if it takes off. With my eyesight and the size of my living room at the moment the difference wouldn't be spectacular. Plus I'm not really interested in spending up to adopt this until there's plenty of content around, it's reasonably priced, and (like HDCP now) whatever craptastic new copy protection scheme they come up with has been thoroughly broken.

Having said that, I would love 1TB re(writable) optical disks if they are reasonably priced and reliable. I would spend up on them now if I could. Having just recovered over 2TB of material I backed up to from DVD-R four years ago (that's around 500 disks to copy back) after a hard drive crash, I am keenly aware how tedious it is to backup and restore to large numbers of disks. Being able to back up 12TB of material on 12 disks instead of (say) 240 using 50GB BD-R would be fantastic.

So as a medium for pre-packaged content..... meh. But as a backup soltion, it would be nice.

(The good news is that recovering backup media content from 530 cheap off brand DVD-Rs after four years in a cupboard, I lost exactly 1 900MB file as unrecoverable!)

[glenpinn]

Back on topic.

I don't care much for 4K video, and it will be ages before I will upgrade, even if it takes off. With my eyesight and the size of my living room at the moment the difference wouldn't be spectacular. Plus I'm not really interested in spending up to adopt this until there's plenty of content around, it's reasonably priced, and (like HDCP now) whatever craptastic new copy protection scheme they come up with has been thoroughly broken.

i agree, and i am a videographer, there is no way i am going to buy, and start shooting 4k video just because they are now making 4k tv's and cameras, maybe in 2 or 3 years, when it becomes more mainstream, i might look into it, so right now i will continue to shoot either 1080/50p avchd @ 28Mbps, or 1080/25p ProRes @ 180Mbps using my Ninja2 recorder attached to my cams via hdmi, and anyone who has not seen 108Mbps ProRes video should do.

Having said that, I would love 1TB re(writable) optical disks if they are reasonably priced and reliable. I would spend up on them now if I could.

why would you want to use a 1tb optical disc to backup to, when you can buy 2tb usb3 powered portable drives so cheap, just buy 2 of them and backup to both each day, and i say 2 because one could die on you, then you have the other one.

alternatively, have another hdd insie your pc tower and keep a copy of your files stored on that as well as a portable drive externally.

cheers

[OllieTSB]

There was a mention of a "BD successor makes sense to corporate world" but I think the uptake in both Gov't AND Corporate Archival Needs will be incredibly slow, especially since the BD-R fiascos, the high quantity of coasters AND the volatility of the media-quality vs. few-burner availability.

The oft-cited French Study underscores this renewed focus: "I am unwilling to load even MORE data on a single disk only to lose that much more. Why bother?" I think truly needful archiving (ie, "the law requires you keep THIS record...") isn't going to budge towards any wide acceptance from all the usual suspect-hypesters.

I also remember hearing a lot about 8K TV-and-Monitor standards, and then that vast leap was softened by the 4K movement, as if "babystepping will work with idiot consumers - we can trick them into buying TWO product cycles!"

Yes, like 3D TV has really soared, huh? ("Well, it depends WHICH 3D system..." yeah... riiiight.)

It's no wonder that 8K Topics aren't making the rounds because this would make the babystep purchase-repurchase effort too clear.

But 8K really IS great stuff. I was going to wait until 64K... (I think Ray Milland did that in his 1963 film... one of the first cases of (g)Oogle Glass.

[PuzZLeR]

Even if it was relevant to this thread, as far as I think of x264 vs x265 - Yaaaaaaaaaaaawnnn. Same ol' boring thing like Xvid vs x264 some 8 or so years ago. Waste of time.

exactly, x265 is YAWN material right now, and i still cant work out what all the fuss is about, h265 is nowhere near ready, and contrary to "popular" myth, many experts are still predicting 3 to 5 years before it is mainstream, and i agree with them, but thats my own personal opinion, if others want to think otherwise, then they can.

That's the thing - x265 is nowhere near primetime. It's a work in progress. Attention to its development is interesting, but this flamethrowing thing is stupid, and it is childishness that is best suited for the gamer's forums where teenage level insulting thrives.

I remember the days when x264 would horribly blur the video for its "compression advantage", which IMO was an obvious fact that it was not ready for the big screen, even as late as only a few years ago, but you wouldn't want to say that - the fanboys would get offended and still be defensive. Oh the blasphemy.

I believe in the future of x265, just like I believed in the future of x264, and believed in the future of DivX way back in 2001-ish. But when a format is still in its development stage constructive criticism tends to stupidly become a political debate.

Yes, like 3D TV has really soared, huh? ("Well, it depends WHICH 3D system..." yeah... riiiight.)

"3D technology" has been supposed to "soar" since the 1950s. It may finally "soar" in the event that true hologram movies become reality, but, until then, content created with some curved camera lens and mutiview layering used today will remain a passive interest at best IMO.

[DarrellS]

Animations are the easiest to compress,best to use fast scenes such as sports for compression testing.

The reason I am doing the animations is because they are the easiest to compress. I don't have time to encode movies or sporting events. I'll leave that up to others with better computers than mine. It will be nice to download football games in 1080p instead of 720p at the same file size or less.

[jman98]

Yes, like 3D TV has really soared, huh? ("Well, it depends WHICH 3D system..." yeah... riiiight.)

3D is here to stay. You may not agree, but it is still true. All the new 4K HDTV technology fully supports it. The "different" 3D systems only affect the viewer and 3D BluRay cares not which of the two systems a particular TV uses. I know it's fun for some of you to bash 3D, but it's not going away. It may be a niche product, but it can survive as such.

[fritzi93]

IIRC, it took a few years of development before H.264 was ready for the "big screen". I should expect H.265 to also require a few years.

I recall some early claims of H.265 being able to achieve the same quality in half the space, as compared to H.264. AFAIK, it has a way to go yet.

[enim]

3D TV works awesome when I throw a XxX reunion party, Everybothig starts shaking... Shaking butts (dancing) and what not while being drunk.
DarrellS already posted two pics on 1st page.

There are tons of technological revolutions are coming in next 5 years.
Scenario will be absolutely different after 5~8 years from now than today.

[johns0]

especially since the BD-R fiascos, the high quantity of coasters AND the volatility of the media-quality vs. few-burner availability.

Never heard of this,where's your source?I get good burns all the time.

[enim]

In addition to my previous reply.
Only the gonna matter as a barrier is How much BiGBs are putting into R&D in present economy down-turn.
Also heard & confirmed from account dept. that BlackBerry Canada mass lay-off is on the way.

Also heard but not confirmed,
All fast food franchise like Mc Donland, Burger Ding, JFC will stop selling poutine - a Canadian French Dish under White Mouse's section(s)#420. The reasons published in media is White Mouse family members like Mickey & Mini get sick of poutine.

I, with a feeling hot in a face, clenching my jaws, with a little headache & dizziness, shaking or trembling...
@#$% ^&*! @#$% ^&*!
condemn HEAVY all these nasty and hurting policies with a cones-dome.
This is the only what I can do! coz I HATE sucking the poors!

[usually_quiet]

especially since the BD-R fiascos, the high quantity of coasters AND the volatility of the media-quality vs. few-burner availability.

Never heard of this,where's your source?I get good burns all the time.

I get good burns too. I only use good HTL BD-R media (Verbatim and Panasonic) and a good Pioneer burner.

However it looks like BD-R may not be as archival as DVD-R. Affordable BD-R media and burners haven't been around very long but some people who should know what they are doing have reported that their BD-R discs burned only a few years ago have become unreadable. Panasonic media has fared the best in tests that artificially simulate aging, and I have started using that for storing videos that are important to me.

I'm still using optical media as well as USB sticks (my TV has a player) and an external HDD. I like optical media for long-term storage of my own recordings, and I sometimes record OTA TV for a few relatives who no longer have a way to record things for themselves. DVD and BD-R are a much more cost effective way for me to give my relatives the recordings they requested to be played on their Blu-Ray player. Good BD-R media costs $1-$1.50 per disc and I can afford to just give them the discs. A USB stick or HDD with an equivalent or larger capacity would cost quite a bit more.

[PuzZLeR]

especially since the BD-R fiascos, the high quantity of coasters AND the volatility of the media-quality vs. few-burner availability.

Never heard of this,where's your source?I get good burns all the time.

This would be one of my sources as to why I don't trust blu-ray media for archiving.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/media/2021-blu-ray-disks.html

DigitalFAQ is a credible source of info, not some consumer claptrap.

Don't get me wrong, I use BD-R as well, and get good burns, but I ONLY use them in a backup workflow for data, and ONLY when I want to encode/author a playable blu-ray disc (after I've already securely archived the Source).

My oldest BD-R burn is less than 5 years old - don't know what's going to happen to them, say, 5 more years from now.

[jman98]

Never heard of this,where's your source?I get good burns all the time.

This would be one of my sources as to why I don't trust blu-ray media for archiving.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/media/2021-blu-ray-disks.html

DigitalFAQ is a credible source of info, not some consumer claptrap.
[/QUOTE]

The info in that link is over 4 years old now. Each person has to do what they think best, but honestly some of those worries are a bit overblown. BD discs are more scratch resistant and my personal use of BD-R blanks seems to confirm that, but hey, if you don't feel comfortable using BD-R for long term storage, I can't prove that you're wrong.

[Cornucopia]

Not only that, but did you read that thing?! Sounds like it was written by a 1st year "science beat" journalist, spouting word of mouth FUD.

It clearly shows a lack of understanding about:
1. HD quality vs. SD quality, WRT bitrate & screen size/viewing angle/viewing distance
2. The technology of BD anti-scratch coating, which works (not perfectly, but certainly much better than DVD or CD resistance)
3. The relative rates of "weakening" of one laser type vs. another (and the fact that this only has to do with the quality of the device, not the media)
4. BD Error correction, which is an order of magnitude more robust than DVDs (which were more robust than CD-by design!)
5. BD disc composition, which is less prone to warpage than DVDs or CDs (for good reason - BD scientists thought through the problem already)
6. Dual-layer recording (which is, granted, less robust than SL, but still is quite usable).
7. Who the best BD-R and BD-RE media makers are!

There is also alot of hooey about tape backups that is also unfounded. About the only thing good in that article was the suggestion to backup, and to periodically migrate, your data.

Scott

[OllieTSB]

Never heard of this,where's your source?I get good burns all the time.

Johns, I haven't come across any forum that discusses CD, DVD or BD blanks that doesn't have a host of testimonials about "production of coasters", low quality media, questions of media source IDs, quality, etc.

It's the Holy Grail of forums - "What's the best disk? What's the best burner?" These questions aren't asked because the majority (51%?!!) are good but because there's a perception that the cooperation between One Drive and One Disk-Brand is better or worse.

And IF longevity is a concern at all, this "cooperation" between Media and Burner (plus storage considerations!) is a big deal.

IF longevity is important.

I personally think the Speed Of Burning Issues are nearly useless. I couldn't care less if it takes me 5 or 25 minutes to burn a disk that will last and last, yielding years of playback for the files or the 2-hours of video.

EXCEPT... some burners and some disks are supposedly made to function better at a faster speed.

That's the claim, at least. Proof is in the pudding, though, and I think we all face the longevity issue as ultimate proof.

There's another corollary to the Holy Grail - TO SCAN OR NOT TO SCAN - and while I've seen the arguments presented well, the basic flaw that Scan-Advocates fail to address is, "Why should I trust THIS unit to Scan Well? After all, this company doesn't have a good reputation for Burning. So why should I trust a less-than-best-rated Burner to do Better-Than-Best Scanning?"

But at some point, we must trust something. Pioneer and Plextor have received tons of trust for their burners and readers. But are they "the best" or merely someone's convenient and lazy "favorite"? There's a difference!

And if consumerism has proven anything, "Yesterday's success has no guarantee on tomorrow's quality." The Profit Motive is far stronger than maintaining a long-term vision to corporate responsibility. The Bottom Line, after all, exists only for Today.

None of this matters until disks actually age in our own unique storage environments for our own unique playback requirements.

Ya places yer money, ya makes yer bet. Ya hopes fer the best.

[OllieTSB]

...About the only thing good in that article was the suggestion to backup, and to periodically migrate, your data.

And that probably can't be stated more clearly. I've still got some Compaqs that run well with their MFM hard drives. Massive, full-height things. Three cabinets, two drives each. No need for winter fuel. Just fire up that puppy, break out the weiners and marshmallows - you can have a cookout AND have fun with DOS all day long.

Those units didn't come with 3.5" floppies, those were hefty upgrades. But those allowed migrations until the serial COMs were linked up. ArcNet just wasn't that keen on those PS/2s, after all. Thank goodness for Netware 2.2 and then NetBIOS with Win3.11. Whew!

Migration saved all of those high-scores on those games. Alas, not the games themselves!

:So...

How long will you accept to burn a 2-hour video in a future disk? That is, a 2-hour movie. Will you accept 10 hours? Two (in a one for one burn)?

Can the Next Gen Video-Disk Blank take so long that it will violate your Patience Standards?

What if the Media is only going to last 1-2 years and you're told to "simply reburn" and thus maintain a digital copy. Would there be any willingness to do that?

I can see record-archival accepting long burns but NOT for short durability. (Gee - what a bureaucrat's dream - "I've got a job that will require tons of sit-back-and-do-nothing, and it will be required forever and ever!")

[OllieTSB]

(None of this mentions disk-fungus, by the way. shhh...)

[fritzi93]

(None of this mentions disk-fungus, by the way. shhh...)

No worries, you-know-who got banned. I doubt anyone here wants to discuss that again.