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  1. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    I know this is audio rather than video, but it also pertains to the use of PC hardware, so I thought I might give it a shot here. As with video, I've got a pretty diverse toolbox of audio apps here (including EAC and various others), though my proficiency with them could certainly be better. Anyway, there are a couple "extended edition" music CDs I own that I wanted to back up -- a standard practice to avoid loss or damage, particularly on road trips. Anyway, what seems to happen with these in question though is that my procedures work up until about the last 2 or 3 tracks, where it bombs out with errors, or an inability to read or write those last tracks. Nothing wrong with the original source disc, which would play just fine in my car's factory-installed CD-player, for example. (Yeah, I know that a lot of folks have moved on to other technologies by now, but I'm old school with a lot of things, including CDs and DVDs. Still use more DVD than Blu-Ray, too.)

    My best guesses why this may be happening: 1) The mfr. used some proprietary, longer-duration media, along the lines of FinoDisc. I do have a few blanks like that, purchased years ago, but don't recall trying to use them. (It has been awhile . . . . ) I'm also aware of Overburning settings to be found in some apps., and have tried them.
    or 2) The Pioneer or other standard burners in my computers cannot handle this type of job.
    or 3) Aren't commercial discs stamped rather than burned ? Perhaps that accounts for what I don't seem to be able to do here ?
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this gradually disappearing American art form.
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  2. Member
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    I have a CD from Spain that used some kind of anti-copy protection on it and I wasn't ever able to rip it either. This was some years ago, but I have an ancient standalone CD audio copy/burn device that Pioneer made and I had to use the analog copy mode to get the first 2 tracks. Nothing I tried in software was able to rip the entire CD correctly. If I remember, what I was able to rip was not quite correct in that several songs were just lumped together into one bigger file and I had to use an audio editor to split that bigger file.

    If the CD uses some kind of special disc, you should be able to tell (I would think) by the length of it. I know that Bear Family in Germany has put out at least one audio CD that is' over 83 minutes long and I've heard tell of a few other companies doing something similar. Commercial audio CDs are stamped, yes. Note that EAC has TERRIBLE bugs that have NEVER been fixed if you use a BD drive for ripping, so while I would normally suggest EAC, if you have a DVD or CD drive that cannot do BluRay at all, you may have better luck. Note that EAC did fail in my attempts to completely rip the Spanish CD I talked about and I was using a DVD drive there.
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  3. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    You asked yourself if they were stamped, but only YOU can tell us if that's true, by looking at them. You MIGHT have gotten a bootleg from somewhere (internet, mailorder, flea market, etc) - we would have no way of knowing that.
    If you got them in the usual consumer manner - amazon, or "record store" (whatever that still means anymore) - they ARE stamped (aka pressed/replicated). As such, they would NOT be extended in terms of time longer than 80 minutes, as I'm confident that NO legit replication plant would accept an order for such a disc.

    No, my first guess would be that the CD employs a form of "Copy Protection". I say that in quotes, because, for CDs, ALL forms of CP on Audio CDs are hacks that in one form or another will break the spec (and compatibility).
    When AudioCD started becoming popular among distributors, Philips in 2002 had to put their foot down and say that they couldn't be legitimately called Audio CDs (nor use the logo), because they could compromise compatibility so much. That greatly curtailed the whole practice.
    However, there are still some discs being made (they just got smarter and sneakier about it). You could have one of those discs.

    Could it be the fault of one of your reader/burners? Possibly, though I doubt it. Especially if they work just fine for other CDs and DVDs.

    You don't say which discs these are, so we're not sure whether they are known to employ CP or not. Transporterfan has already suggested an app that is good at removing the CP while ripping, which would allow you to make a non-CP'd backup. It should be successful at removing any CP that is on those discs, even in those "suspect" readers.

    Bottom line is: not sure until you give us more info.

    Scott

    <edit>jman98, beat me to it again!</edit>
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  4. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    I know that Bear Family in Germany has put out at least one audio CD that is' over 83 minutes long and I've heard tell of a few other companies doing something similar
    IIRC The first double CD release of James Taylor's 1993 live CD set:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_%28James_Taylor_album%29
    contained at least one 90 minute CD. I'm guessing that was one of the reasons it was quickly discontinued and replaced with shorter versions.
    I have the original fat-box-set here somewhere. Ripping it is no problem but obviously you cannot burn it back to a normal CD.



    EDIT:
    I was wrong. 636 and 609MB for the JT set. I KNOW I came across at least one in my lifetime.
    My wife says one of the Matchbox 20 releases is oversized.
    Last edited by hech54; 10th Mar 2014 at 13:33.
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  5. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Thanks for all your suggestions. I don't think this was the only such case I ran into, but the one I had in mind on this post was Little Feat's "Waiting for Columbus", Deluxe 2-CD edition with bonus tracks. This has to be one of the very best live concerts ever. [Well, the original was, anyway: not as convinced about the "bonus" tracks.] It is from Warner Bros. Records (I think), most likely purchased from Tower, before their brick & mortars finally went under. If I know where I put the original -- another reason for having a backup -- I can double-check the disc capacity. My recollection is that Disc 2 was even more of a problem than Disc 1. Your typical commercial music CD probably does not have more than 12 tracks, and I think these had around 16 per each ? It was definitely the last few tracks where the problems occurred.

    My computers have DVD burners. I've been meaning to install a BR burner, but never got around to it. The stated hardware requirements for the BR variety (CPU, video card, etc.) I think are towards the farther end of my desktop computer's spec.s, and I never really got into doing any BR stuff on the computer. I did not try CloneCD for this yet, but should be able to give that a whirl.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this gradually disappearing American art form.
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  6. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    i've got that cd set and never had a problem ripping/copying. the sax work on mercenary territory by tower of power is outstanding. maybe a bad disc?

    [edit] even the cd 2 with 15 songs is only 78 minutes. it's not a special disc.
    Last edited by aedipuss; 10th Mar 2014 at 17:09.
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  7. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    # of tracks isn't the problem. I routinely work with 99trk discs without a hiccup. Most likely bad media, unless we hear further. But what softs ARE you ripping with?

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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    Here's a link to the Bear Family CD that I was talking about. The website says it's 82:56. It's a bunch of Rolling Stones songs sung in German by German artists.

    http://goo.gl/1aNAd9
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  9. Member hech54's Avatar
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    I still have a couple of blank TDK 90 minute CD's here in one of my cakeboxes. Used to use them quite often. Prassi Ones with an LG drive....no need for that silly overburning nonsense since the prassi/LG combination shows 90 minutes available to burn.
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  10. Member Noahtuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    If you got them in the usual consumer manner - amazon, or "record store" (whatever that still means anymore) - they ARE stamped (aka pressed/replicated).
    Absolutely 100% INCORRECT!!!
    Originally a member since 2001, LONG LIVE TARAN's!!!
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  11. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    # of tracks isn't the problem. I routinely work with 99trk discs without a hiccup. Most likely bad media, unless we hear further. But what softs ARE you ripping with?
    EAC was definitely one, have to get back to you on the rest. (Diff. softs on diff. rigs -- even a still-mostly-functional MusicMatch on one of 'em, which I think could rip, as could Nero. And, as mentioned, this was not all that recent. I was only reminded about this subject because I noticed a cd on a stack in a closet.) I may need to find the source disc and do some re-tries to be sure. Would def. try to include CloneCD, this time. Chance of the media being bad: not so much.

    hech54, where did you find those 90 min. TDKs ? I got the Finodisc extended blanks at some computer show, years ago, and they seemed to be real oddities. Haven't seen any like that since, either.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this gradually disappearing American art form.
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  12. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    hech54, where did you find those 90 min. TDKs ? I got the Finodisc extended blanks at some computer show, years ago, and they seemed to be real oddities. Haven't seen any like that since, either.


    I used to be able to get these in a spindle pack of 25. I haven't seen them for a while.
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  13. Member hech54's Avatar
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    A place in the UK still sells them. Not TDK and quite expensive:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-MediaRange-Branded-Blank-CD-R-discs-48x-100-min-CD-R-900MB-...item4d19e45427

    I also found my TDK spindle.....I have 5 discs left.
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  14. Member Noahtuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    A place in the UK still sells them. Not TDK and quite expensive:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-MediaRange-Branded-Blank-CD-R-discs-48x-100-min-CD-R-900MB-...item4d19e45427

    I also found my TDK spindle.....I have 5 discs left.
    Yep, Mine were not TDK but I am sure I have some left around here.

    I used to do the same thing you did back in the day, I am sure we have crossed this path numerous time in the past.

    I am sure i have a few oddity CD-R's around yet that I have not used in more than a few years.
    Originally a member since 2001, LONG LIVE TARAN's!!!
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  15. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    A place in the UK still sells them. Not TDK and quite expensive:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-MediaRange-Branded-Blank-CD-R-discs-48x-100-min-CD-R-900MB-...item4d19e45427

    I also found my TDK spindle.....I have 5 discs left.
    Does it matter who makes these -- or the TDKs, if still available ?
    My impression re those Finodiscs was that it was an off-brand . . . maybe sort of like RiData for DVD, which was always getting slammed here as crap media ?
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this gradually disappearing American art form.
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  16. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Oh don't get me wrong.....I wouldn't buy/use TDK blank DVDs if my life depended on it.
    Crap/inferior CD media became virtually obsolete 15 or 20 years ago.

    However.....have we determined that oversized media is your problem?
    I don't think so.
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  17. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Oh don't get me wrong.....I wouldn't buy/use TDK blank DVDs if my life depended on it.
    Crap/inferior CD media became virtually obsolete 15 or 20 years ago.

    However.....have we determined that oversized media is your problem?
    I don't think so.
    On the face of it, I'm now thinking that transporterfan had it right: a job that other softs stumbled on, but CloneCD was able to handle. (For whatever reasons.) I just made a copy of the original Disc 2 with it, no errors, and two of the last four tracks played fine on the PC, when tested at random. Hopefully that will be the case when the disc is played elsewhere.

    Too much time has passed since the earlier failures, and there are too many variables at play for it to be conclusive. This computer has an Optiarc burner for example, others have Pioneer or Samsung ones. (Again, none of them BR models.)

    A couple things to note, of unknown relevance: 78 min.s runtime for this disc is pushing it a bit towards the limit, in that 80 min.s is what a standard CD is supposed to accommodate at the max. From the 94% marker to the end, CloneCD slowed WAY down, to a crawl in fact. Maybe a lot of persistent re-tries were involved, on those later tracks ? Anyway, this is certainly a more elegant, streamlined process than some of the multi-step other methods (EAC ?) that involve making a cue-sheet, checking track gaps, etc. I think one of the other softs I would have tried must have been IMGBURN (?) {Read to Image, Write Image.}

    Notwithstanding the above, I think some of those extended CD blanks would be good to have on hand, in case they were ever needed, and I will look for them. Some say CD is dead (and now DVD), but not for me. My 2007 car has a rather good cassette player as part of its built-in sound system. If I could have the same thing on the next car, I would, but mfr.s have abandoned that tech. It may sound strange, but that is one of the factors leading me to hold on to that car, rather than get a new one. Some new cars now don't even do the CD player: they have an HDD (like the Infiniti G), or MP3 gear. I have a lot of custom CDs I made back in the day, made from good quality sources on premium cassettes on a Nakamichi deck. A lot of that music material could not be replicated today at all (out of print), and certainly not in the custom way I assembled it. If such things make me a dinosaur, so be it.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this gradually disappearing American art form.
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