VideoHelp Forum
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2
1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 58
Thread
  1. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    Howdy all. I am trying to convert some video loops from WMV to MPEG2.

    And I've run into a problem.

    I have tried using two different programs: AVS Video Converter and Adobe Media Encoder CC.

    Each time I convert the wmv, it creates a short stutter at the end of the loop. I have found I can minimize the stutter by forcing the multiplexer settings on AME to none (as opposed to PS or TS). But it will cut out 480ms causing a small jump. I know the video loop is fine cause the end and start frames look fine in VirtualDub.

    Anyone have any suggestions on settings or a different program to try? I have to convert it to MPEG 2 cause that is the only other format windows dreamscene will accept.
    Quote Quote  
  2. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2000
    Location: Sweden
    Search Comp PM
    Are you converting to same frame rate as the wmv?

    Test free converters like xmedia recode, avidemux.

    Or really good mpeg2 encoders like hcenc, tmpgenc but they might be a bit more complex.
    Quote Quote  
  3. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    I will test them in the AM (or my AM at least). I

    I am converting at the same framerate, same aspect ratio, and same resolution. The bitrate is as close as the original as I can get.

    And there's no sound in the original WMV. These are video loops only. No audio.
    Quote Quote  
  4. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    Tried XMedia, AVIDemux, and tmpgenc. The converted MPEG from all three had the same stutter.
    Quote Quote  
  5. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2000
    Location: Sweden
    Search Comp PM
    Post the details from your wmv. Use mediainfo, open wmv, view->text.
    Quote Quote  
  6. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    Format : Windows Media
    File size : 14.5 MiB
    Duration : 15s 460ms
    Overall bit rate mode : Constant
    Overall bit rate : 7 851 Kbps
    Maximum Overall bit rate : 8 049 Kbps
    Encoded date : UTC 2007-12-29 17:46:07.300

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : VC-1
    Format profile : MP@HL
    Codec ID : WMV3
    Codec ID/Info : Windows Media Video 9
    Codec ID/Hint : WMV3
    Description of the codec : Windows Media Video 9 - Professional
    Duration : 15s 480ms
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 25.000 fps
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.154
    Stream size : 14.8 MiB
    NumberOfFrames : 375
    Quote Quote  
  7. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2000
    Location: Sweden
    Search Comp PM
    Try convert to some other format and just to see if it also stutters.

    And maybe post a sample of the wmv and mpg?
    Quote Quote  
  8. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    It doesn't stutter to avi. It does to MP4. Here are the wmv original and the MPEG conversion.
    Attached Files
    Quote Quote  
  9. vanished El Heggunte's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2009
    Location: Misplaced Childhood
    Search Comp PM
    Please check this re-encode (created with HCenc, muxed with TMPGEnc):
    Attached Files
    Quote Quote  
  10. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    Still stutters at the end. Thanks for recoding it though.
    Quote Quote  
  11. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2004
    Location: Freedonia
    Search Comp PM
    Your "stuttering" problem suggests to me that your computer is seriously overtaxed in trying to play your video. I would think that your CPU is sufficient for playing WMV so the fact that AVI works fine and MP4 and the test encode don't definitely suggests that something is basically eating up your CPU. You have a laptop obviously (that's a laptop CPU) and I'm no expert on those, so others will have to suggest what might be going on. Maybe your video is underpowered.
    Quote Quote  
  12. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    Normally I'd agree with you. But I've gone thru all the other possible causes of the stutter.

    1. My notebook is an Alienware M17x R2. It does have a decent CPU (i7-920XM) and GPU (ATI 5870m).

    2. My GPU was recently replaced. And there are no processes eating up my CPU or GPU (other than the normal 2%-3% for Dreamscene).

    3. I know dreamscene and/or the MS video codecs aren't faulty cause I have other MPEG2 video loops which run fine with no stutter. They are attached to this reply.

    I am curious on what you mean the video is underpowered. Is that like the max bitrate limit is set too low?
    Attached Files
    Quote Quote  
  13. Member
    Join Date: Jul 2009
    Location: United States
    Search Comp PM
    The only thing I noticed was that the working files were mpeg elementary streams while the ones that stuttered were mpeg-ps. I demuxed your BigBlueSeaHD.mpg to an elementary stream, see if it works.
    Attached Files
    Quote Quote  
  14. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    No dice. Still stutters. Told you it was weird. It does this for any of the wmvs I try to convert. Does the stutter appear when any of you play this on WMP on loop?
    Quote Quote  
  15. Member
    Join Date: Jul 2009
    Location: United States
    Search Comp PM
    All of the mpeg files stutter for me. Although the two that worked for you only had a brief pause for me. The wmv original did not stutter.
    Quote Quote  
  16. vanished El Heggunte's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2009
    Location: Misplaced Childhood
    Search Comp PM
    Possibly the actual problem is in Windows Media Player itself.

    Remember, WMP = Windows Media Player.
    Quote Quote  
  17. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    I've tried it on MPC and it does stutter as well. Same with Quicktime.
    Quote Quote  
  18. vanished El Heggunte's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2009
    Location: Misplaced Childhood
    Search Comp PM
    By default, WMP uses Microsoft's MPEG-2 decoder, which probably suxxx.
    MPC-HC uses ffmpeg/libav, which is not flawless at MPEG-2 decoding either.

    Possibly none of the above were designed with «loop/gapless playback» in mind

    As for QucikTime: NO COMMENTS (i.e., #$%@**!! >_ < ¬¬)

    Assuming that the problem is a "life-or-death situation" for you...

    then try different MPEG-2 decoders (DScaler 5, or CLvsd.ax from PowerDVD), and/or
    media splitters which let you control the buffer size (AV Splitter, ¿Haali?).

    Otherwise, I've just run out of ideas
    Quote Quote  
  19. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    I did the search to use CLVsd.ax as the default decoder. I think I got it installed correctly. I just had to put it into SysWOW64 and use the 64bit Regserv to register it. I also changed the codec CLSID in the registry over to the Cyberlink codec. But I don't really know if Dreamscene if really using the CLVsd codec.

    Anyway, it didn't make a difference...but your answer did! Whilst doing the search I came across the following page:

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/60becac1-d537-4f46-a32f-93fce...l-dxva-for-vc1

    It details the MPEG & WMV parameters for encoding a Dreamscene loop. I followed these for the most part with Adobe Media Encoder, and it almost worked! The MPEG does not stutter at the end. It jumps instead. I've noticed it is because 480ms has been cut off from the end.

    I will try encoding with XMedia and post what the results are. But it's progress!
    Attached Files
    Quote Quote  
  20. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    Ughhhhh.

    Tried encoding with Xmedia. No dice. The MPEG came out unplayable. Anyone want to steo me thru encoding with hcenc and tmpgenc to get the following parameters?

    ◦15 & 8 Mbps MPEG2
    ◦Stream Format: Generic ISO MPEG Stream
    ◦Stream Type: MPEG-2 Elementary Stream
    ◦Interlacing: Non-Interlaced
    ◦Aspect Ratio Code: 16:9
    ◦Quality/Speed: Mastering Quality
    ◦Bitrate type: CBR
    ◦Video Bitrate: 15000 (8000)
    ◦Profile/Level: HP@HL
    ◦VBV Buffer Size: 1492
    ◦Max GOP Size: 15
    ◦Closed GOP: yes
    ◦Chroma Format: 4:2:0
    ◦Intra DC Precision: 9
    ◦Strict GOP bitrate: No
    ◦No audio used
    ◦Insert one sequence header before each GOP
    Quote Quote  
  21. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2000
    Location: Sweden
    Search Comp PM
    I can't see any stutter in any file. Where exactly should I see it?
    Quote Quote  
  22. Member
    Join Date: Jul 2007
    Location: England
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
    I can't see any stutter in any file.
    Me neither (and I'm using an 8 year old laptop running Windows XP).
    Quote Quote  
  23. Member
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Location: Canada
    Search Comp PM
    I think he means stuttering when looped, and played specifically through "dreamscene"
    Quote Quote  
  24. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    Correct. Specifically at the end. The last 500ms the motion stops but the video is still playing. I've confirmed this in Virtualdub as the last set of frames are identical in the recoded version, but not in the WMV original.
    Quote Quote  
  25. Member
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Location: Canada
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by radji View Post
    Correct. Specifically at the end. The last 500ms the motion stops but the video is still playing. I've confirmed this in Virtualdub as the last set of frames are identical in the recoded version, but not in the WMV original.
    Which version are you referring to? How many duplicate frames are you seeing? I've confirmed they aren't identical in El Heggunte's re-encoded version and are identical cadence wise to the wmv version (exact number and placement of frames). So it's a playback issue, not repeated frame issue. The fact that you can loop it with avisynth seamlessly (the looping is done through the script by playing the video end to end) in a common media player supports this (or go frame by frame to check) . However, playing the file natively and using the media player's looping ability causes a pause on any of the mpeg2 files

    You can use those specific encoding settings in Adobe Media Encoder . HCEnc doesn't support true CBR encoding


    Originally Posted by zing269 View Post
    All of the mpeg files stutter for me. Although the two that worked for you only had a brief pause for me. The wmv original did not stutter.

    I'm the same as zing269 , testing in various media players(not dreamscene)
    Last edited by poisondeathray; 13th Mar 2014 at 20:38.
    Quote Quote  
  26. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Which version are you referring to? How many duplicate frames are you seeing? I've confirmed they aren't identical in El Heggunte's re-encoded version and are identical cadence wise to the wmv version (exact number and placement of frames). So it's a playback issue, not repeated frame issue. The fact that you can loop it with avisynth seamlessly (the looping is done through the script by playing the video end to end) in a common media player supports this (or go frame by frame to check) . However, playing the file natively and using the media player's looping ability causes a pause on any of the mpeg2 files

    You can use those specific encoding settings in Adobe Media Encoder . HCEnc doesn't support true CBR encoding

    I'm the same as zing269 , testing in various media players(not dreamscene)
    Good to know that it may just be me.

    But some of the setting on Adobe Media Encoder, I cannot find.

    Like, Quality/Speed: Mastering Quality, Profile/Level: HP@HL, Strict GOP bitrate: No, Insert one sequence header before each GOP. I can't find any of those settings. I also cannot get the VBR buffer size to 1492k. The highest it will go to is 597k Is that just a limitation for the MPEG 2 or the source?

    Any other settings in Adobe Media Encoder you recommend I change when encoding this video loop?

    The problem it seems with Adobe ME now is, when encoding with the recommended settings, it cuts off the last 480ms off the video loop. The video loop is supposed to be 15.480 seconds.
    Quote Quote  
  27. Member
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Location: Canada
    Search Comp PM
    "mastering quality" is not relevant for sure

    HP@HL probaby isn't relevant because the video you said that worked (aqua_ocean.mpg) doesn't use it (main@high) , but the profile and level can be selected in AME if you use the generic MPEG2 preset

    If you set profile to high, level to high (that's HP@HL), then VBV buffer size can go to 746 (note that is expressed in 2kbyte size), so 2x746=1492kbyte

    But you're right - it doesn't have "Insert one sequence header before each GOP" option. You need the Mainconcept/Rovi encoder for that option; the limited licensed version in AME doesn't have all options available
    Last edited by poisondeathray; 13th Mar 2014 at 23:22.
    Quote Quote  
  28. Member
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Location: Canada
    Search Comp PM
    Directshow gives you extra repeat frames at the end 387 total, 12 extra frames - that's probably what you were seeing in vdub . That will never create a seamless loop regardless of how it's encoded or played. That is a decoding problem of the wmv . 15.480 contains 480ms of repeat frames

    If you index the WMV (e.g. with ffms2 in avisynth) it will give 375 frames exactly (0 to 374) , that does give a seamless loop if it is played properly. You can use loop() in avisynth and check frame by frame, and that verifies it. I'm 100% certain

    El Heggunte's was created with the proper frames, it just doesn't loop properly in media players when played natively . But it loops ok through avisynth .avs in a media player . So the loop itself is fine, it's just a media player playback issue
    Quote Quote  
  29. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
    Search Comp PM
    I was thinking the GOP sequence wasn't being exactly maintained from source to target and the player didn't like the change in progression (Open vs. Closed)?
    I also notice that your WMV source has 15s460ms duration in the container header and 15s480ms in the video stream header. Maybe that is causing some confusion with the decoders & subsequent encoders.

    ...Dang it, sounds like pdr beat me to the punch!

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
    Quote Quote  
  30. Random Lunatic radji's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: Insane Asylum
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Directshow gives you extra repeat frames at the end 387 total, 12 extra frames - that's probably what you were seeing in vdub . That will never create a seamless loop regardless of how it's encoded or played. That is a decoding problem of the wmv . 15.480 contains 480ms of repeat frames

    If you index the WMV (e.g. with ffms2 in avisynth) it will give 375 frames exactly (0 to 374) , that does give a seamless loop if it is played properly. You can use loop() in avisynth and check frame by frame, and that verifies it. I'm 100% certain

    El Heggunte's was created with the proper frames, it just doesn't loop properly in media players when played natively . But it loops ok through avisynth .avs in a media player . So the loop itself is fine, it's just a media player playback issue
    What would you recommend then? Loading a different MPEG2 codec for the PreferredMPEG2VideoDecoderCLSID registry value?
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads