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  1. Member
    Join Date: Nov 2013
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    Hi, I am new here and this is my first time posting on this forum and still young in audio editing.
    I had installed a software called Wavepad and I had been trying to editing my audios using this software. I know that using reverb effect will make the audio echo. But I am not sure how to use these functions under the reverb section. Could someone explain to me what are,

    1) Decay Time
    2) Predelay
    3) Diffusion
    4) Wet Signal Gain
    5) Dry Signal Gain

    Thank you.
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  2. Echo is not Reverberation! Reverb is very complex and imply even not linear dependencies.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverberation

    1) Decay Time

    how long is reverb time - how long reverb energy occure (to simplified how big is room - for very large rooms this can be even tens of seconds - such as cathedrals)

    2) Predelay

    time betwen dry and wet where dry means original sound, wet signal with reverb

    3) Diffusion

    how hard is characteristic (or how distinguishable are single echos - empty room with concrete wall will give hard reflection, same room with various furniture, books, fabrics will be way more complex and overall echo will be not easy to separate - important - this is double effect, first various shapes and angles but also various materials are partially responsible for diffusion)


    4) Wet Signal Gain

    level for reverbed sound

    5) Dry Signal Gain

    level for non reverbed sound

    Real complex reverberation is usually performed by convolution in "convolvers" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convolution_reverb
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  3. Member
    Join Date: Mar 2011
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    There are also vst reverb plugins available. Lots of them.
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  4. Member johns0's Avatar
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    Reverberation does use echoes according to the link you posted.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  5. Broadcaster bigass's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2006
    Location: Halifax, NS Canada
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    Yes, and cookies use sugar, but sugar isn't cookies.

    Echo effects suggest distinct repeating instances of a sound. Reverb is a more diffuse, environmental effect.
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  6. Member johns0's Avatar
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    Some cookies are sugar,i did say reverb uses echoes and what you imply is i said reverb is echoes.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  7. Broadcaster bigass's Avatar
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    Cookies are not echoes and white chocolate is a lie and a betrayal. Having said all that, if what you want is an echo, use an echo. For reverb, use reverb. Don't use reverb to try to make an echo. But if you don't know one from the other, you might not know which one you're asking for. I suspect OP doesn't. Try both and learn to tell lager from ale.
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  8. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
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    You could create reverb by using echoes, but to do it correctly, you would have to use THOUSANDS to MILLIONS of echoes, each with a different level, each with a different frequency response, each with a different delay/phase. And only CERTAIN combinations are pleasing and/or familiar as good reverb.

    And as bigass has mentioned, you cannot unmix those THOUSANDS of varying sounds just to extract a SINGLE copy (exception: short transients where the pre-delay & onset/swell combinations leave enough room between E2 and E3 to where you could clip it out). So you cannot get ECHO from REVERB.

    If you want to hear a "slap", or to double-track or do a FripperTronic/Layering effect - use Echo.
    If you want to sound like you are in a natural (or man-made/artificial) space - use Reverb.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  9. Originally Posted by johns0 View Post
    Reverberation does use echoes according to the link you posted.
    REVERB and ECHO have in common this that both use of DELAY. But REVERB is way more complex than ECHO - it can be approximated by multipple ECHO's but still it can sound very poor. Creating acceptable Room Simulation with ECHO (even with multiple ECHO's) is unrealistic.
    Pulse response convolution is way more efficient and also can be created in synthetic way (parametrically simulated).
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  10. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    Creating acceptable Room Simulation with ECHO (even with multiple ECHO's) is unrealistic.
    Oh, now I think that very much depends on one's expectation of realism.

    For example, the Famous Lexicon 224 Digital Reverb used/uses multiple fed-back echos, and it was considered by many to be a landmark in quality reverb for many years, and it's use in popular recordings probably wasn't eclipsed until the advent of improved software reverbs and Impulse/Convolution reverbs.

    Personally, I also prefer Convo Reverbs, but those aren't really as easily adjustable of their parameters as the former.

    ...I think now we need to hear from the OP again to see where he needs go to from here.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  11. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    Creating acceptable Room Simulation with ECHO (even with multiple ECHO's) is unrealistic.
    Oh, now I think that very much depends on one's expectation of realism.
    Room Simulation and Room correction are not simple Reverb that enrich perceived (usually dry) sound (a few instruments from recording studio with semi anechoic characteristic and at worse case scenario each of them recorder separately and located in space only trough mixer and recording engineer imagination) - Such unit as mentioned just fill obvious gaps in space... but it is like prosthetic (better or worse) not equal to lost body part.
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  12. Member
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    Thank you guys! So reverb is like echo?
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  13. Member johns0's Avatar
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    Reverb uses echoes but in a complex way but it's not the only thing reverb does,read the link supplied to get a better understanding.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  14. very nice example why reverberation is not an echo even if people named it echo:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2c7_1390841846

    notice requites used to test characteristic - starting pistol (high amount of energy in brief moment - for this kind of measurement can be considered as Dirac pulse - yes, I'm aware of trivialization but it is ok for such comparison) - for echo obviously we will have sound of shot, separated by time then slightly lower next sound of shot and once again some silent(semi silent) period next shot sound (with lower energy) etc - this for example typical for mountains or canyons. Reverb is more complex and usually there is no distinctive sound except first occurrence - this is visible in spectrogram used as video - constant energy that fade. This is why Echo is not a Reverb.
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  15. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    @pandy, that example is quite misleading in its claim of such length. It only has an R60 of ~47seconds (R60 being the decay time for an impulse to decay until it reaches -60dBFS compared to the original, the standard for acoustical measurement).

    Also, all of what you've said still does not negate what I said in my previous posts.

    @wildshark, I think you've already asked and been answered: Reverb & Echo are both composed of types of delays of the source, echoes being simple & few and reverb being complex & multitudinous. You can create the latter from the former (with great effort), but it's almost impossible to create the former from the latter.

    Have you figured out how to use the plugin(s) to get the effect you want yet?

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  16. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Also, all of what you've said still does not negate what I said in my previous posts.
    And this was not my intention - i'm only referring that reverberation is not an echo even if reverberation is created from multiple echos .

    Similar principle as difference between picture and drawing - but both are image.
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  17. Member
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    @Cornucopia, Yeah I am still playing around with them.
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