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  1. Member
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    We've been having an ongoing discussion with the developers of DVDRanger over at MyCE. It looks like a beta testing thread, but the end result is a working solution for Cinavia, one that doesn't produce distorted sound.

    Here is the long thread: http://club.myce.com/f62/dvd-ranger-releases-cinex-hd-promises-unsurpassed-sound-quality-335484/

    And here is my brief write-up on my experiences with it: http://club.myce.com/f32/dvdranger-cinex-hd-working-solution-cinavia-335504/#post2721048

    I'm going to post a few clips in that second thread so you can hear the results.
    Last edited by Baldrick; 3rd Mar 2014 at 10:39. Reason: Updated title
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  2. Member
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    Uploading files to MyCE doesn't really work well. So I'm trying to put a couple of clips in this thread. The mp4 file is the AAC audio that has been processed by the CinEx HD module. The mkv file has the AC3 audio (Cinavia detection removed in this one as well).

    This is the End AAC audio.mp4

    This is the End AC3 audio.mkv
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  3. Member
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    Is this 'database' an audio-track replacement system, or are they transmitting the codes to disable each disk's Cinavia Protect scheme? It reads as if it's an audio-track replacement system.
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    I don't think it is a replacement audio stream. It requires the AACS protection in place to manipulate the video, and the database doesn't always work with movies that have slightly different UPC codes. They have a process by which you can cross-match your particular copy of a movie to their database file, but it isn't dirt simple to do.

    But I really don't know for certain how their process works. And they aren't going to reveal that.
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  5. Member
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    Thanks for the update Kerry56, Been waiting along time for something to break this cinavia crap.
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  6. Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
    Uploading files to MyCE doesn't really work well. So I'm trying to put a couple of clips in this thread. The mp4 file is the AAC audio that has been processed by the CinEx HD module. The mkv file has the AC3 audio (Cinavia detection removed in this one as well).

    Attachment 23824

    Attachment 23825
    I didn't hear anything really objectionable, the tracks certainly sounded better than any other Cinavia removal techniques I've heard, but there was nothing but a bit of dialog. And there was no original track to compare to.
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    I have a clip taken from the Blu-ray and now in an mkv file. Its just a lot bigger, and I didn't have time to upload it earlier as my upload speeds are abysmal. I chose dialog because voices were one of the two things that were most troublesome in the earlier fixes from DVDRanger. The other being background music that had a weird warble to it.

    Here is the clip with the original audio:

    This is the End Original audio.mkv
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  8. Member
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    Originally Posted by tarzan54 View Post
    Thanks for the update Kerry56, Been waiting along time for something to break this cinavia crap.
    Dude, until someone somewhere is willing to post true original files for comparison instead of these files that have been re-encoded to other formats that require us to just trust them, I'll wait and see.
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    After reading Kerry56's post in that other forum, maybe these are original files. I stand by what I said, I just admit that perhaps it does not apply in this case.
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    If you read that long discussion over at MyCE, you'll find some evidence that the primary developer, Ingo Forster, and I are not the best of pals. We traded a couple of punches in there, but I have to give them credit for this solution.

    The only reason the original clip is in mkv is because I cut it out with AviDemux, and mkv seemed like the best container.
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    I'll wait for AnydvdHD to crack cinavia.
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    There has been a new development. One of the guys testing the program used a different AACS folder than what his movie came with, and the DVDRanger program inserted a different soundtrack into his movie.

    Here is the quote from Adbear: Just as a test I took my copy of Elysium as a folder and put the AACS folder from my copy of After earth in to it. When it finished encoding, the copy of Elysium had the audio track for After earth. So it's not removing the Cinavia, it's just replacing the audio with an audio track inside the Database file.

    So this almost certainly is a scam after all.
    A 96mb file is pretty small for a 5.1 soundtrack. Anyone know if they can zip it that small? The resulting AAC file for my movie was approximately 340mb.
    Last edited by Kerry56; 3rd Mar 2014 at 09:50.
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    @Kerry56

    Perhaps you should edit (or ask a mod to edit) your thread title and initial post now that recent developments on the Myce forum make this software look like a scam.


    Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post

    So this may be a scam after all.
    A 96mb file is pretty small for a 5.1 soundtrack. Anyone know if they can zip it that small? The resulting AAC file for my movie was approximately 340mb.
    Easy. It can be compressed at a low bitrate and packaged in the database file and then reencoded at a higher bitrate by the program fooling the user.
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    The abuse being heaped upon DVDRanger in that long thread is pretty amusing.

    In any case, just another reminder of what a scummy outfit DVDRanger is. If they had been upfront about replacing audio tracks, people might have been interested as a quick way of doing this rather than hunting down audio tracks from other sources. But they lied about what their program was doing.
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  15. Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
    just another reminder of what a scummy outfit DVDRanger is.
    Agreed.
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    Originally Posted by OllieTSB View Post
    Is this 'database' an audio-track replacement system...
    This was a feared discovery (without corroboration) a week earlier, by the way, and lack of time (and interest) just didn't give the studious audio programmers a chance to really dig into this.

    Ingo's had a history of behavior that resulted in many cries of scams. He's had a much shorter history of genuineness. Maybe things will change. Maybe tigers will have spots one day.
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    (I wish Myce would collect all of DVDRangers' postings into a central sub-forum, by the way. Their time- and subject-scattered droppings in various of Myce's forums make it impossible for newly interested readers from discovering DVDRanger's history, and thus aid in his scams. I suppose Myce has plenty of traffic anyway, though. No need to help that issue along.)
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    jman98
    Dude, until someone somewhere is willing to post true original files for comparison instead of these files that have been re-encoded to other formats that require us to just trust them, I'll wait and see.[/QUOTE]

    Man, I know where your coming from, Just had my hopes up like everyone else who is waiting but fiqured it was just another scam.
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    What a shame, but I did warn you guys. They've been doing this since day 1 - using audio tracks that can't be verified conclusively as being changed by their program. Even I didn't think they would go this far, but they did.
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    You guys are missing all the fun. Seems we have new info from Adbear. He is detecting tiny amounts of the original audio in the output from DVDRanger. This means that it is not a simple swap of audio streams, but rather, an overlay of audio data on top of the original. I would have thought two separate soundtracks merged together would sound terrible...just a cacophony of jumbled sound, but what Adbear reports is that the database overrides the original to the point that it is almost totally obscured.

    I've obtained several discs to test with now and will see if I can repeat Adbear's results.
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    There likely won't be an admission of how this "database solution" works, but to think it's taking hours and hours - tens? - to download a single database file per title says "This is not defeating Cinavia at all - just an avoidance/replacement." As someone pointed out, only DVDRanger makes Cinavia seem less offensive than he is.
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    I managed to get the database of This is the End to work with the movie Elysium. So this supports Adbear's claims. The resulting audio has both soundtracks mixed in, but the 95mb of audio from This is the End completely dominates the sound.

    Could they be taking a soundtrack from a DVD, compressing the snot out of it, then placing it over the audio from the Blu-ray, and thus confusing the Cinavia signal?
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    Kerry56, can you do a test with a silent or blank audio track so you can determine the amount of audio being replaced? Somehow replace the audio track of Elysium with silent audio. Then run the This is the End database on Elysium with the silent audio track. The output audio then would contain only the replaced audio.
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    I can try that, yes. I'll let you know if it works.
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    Kerry, I read a comment from DVDRANGER that his database couldn't do replacements because it was a database.

    Huh?!! The whole "Dogs Sing Jingle Bells" is nothing BUT a demonstration of database containing a Tone Value as a field, and then keystrokes would evoke that Tone multiplied or connected to some Effect - another database field's content.

    The pondered "worm like" infestation of an audio track by a series of replacement 'tones' - which could in fact be clips of audio - was what I originally thought but obviously, getting THE END and ELYSIUM to appear side by side means a data-entry error (confusing a handwritten B for an 8, perhaps).

    Is it true that with this new END-ELYSIUM combo track that Matt Damon sounds like Simon, Theodore or Alvin? This could open up a whole new career for him.
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    I have managed to extract the audio that is produced solely by the database. It is about 101mb in size, in AAC format, but there is a long section of silence at the end, since Elysium is a much longer movie than This is the End.

    The problem is I don't think I can share the entire thing on this site without causing copyright issues. Its an entire sound track. Would a small section of the mp4 file suffice? It will show Elysium playing, but This is the End as the audio.
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    Here is the sample clip:

    Sample of video with wrong audio.mp4

    Remember, this is audio produced only from the original database file, which the developer describes as "fragments".
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  28. If you look a the spectrum of the database audio it has almost nothing over 4 KHz:

    Name:  aud.jpg
Views: 2555
Size:  27.4 KB

    Here's my guess: they run a steep 4 KHz low pass filter on some original audio (probably Cinavia-free audio from a DVD) then encode that with something like AAC. That gives very dull sounding audio but it can be compressed a lot with fairly few artifacts. That's the content of the "database" (presumably they do it this way because their software is very slow). Then when you run their software on your computer they take your audio and run it through a steep 4KHz high-pass filter to get all the high frequency content. Finally, they mix the two together to get a full spectrum track.

    Kerry56, could you provide a short sample of the final output where the database was silent but your alternate audio is audible?
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    Well, that turns out to be harder than I thought. I don't know why I had that long section of silence at the end of the audio file.

    It turns out the movies are fairly close to the same length, with only three minutes of difference. All you're going to get are a few seconds, then silence from the file processed by CinEx HD. This should be what's left of the original audio in Elysium that was overwritten by the database file. But is certainly changed a lot from the original sound.

    Elysium audio processed by CinExHD.mp4
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  30. Kerry56, thanks for that sample. It's pretty much as I suspected, they use the high frequencies from your audio and mix them with the low frequencies of the "database".

    Name:  highs.jpg
Views: 2526
Size:  35.4 KB

    It's slightly different in that they take both high and very low frequencies from your audio, and the middle range from the database.

    What remains to be seen is whether the database audio is from an unprotected source, or a Cinavia protected Blu-ray disc (mangled enough to "remove" Cinavia). I suspect the former. Otherwise they could do what they're doing all on your computer and there would be no need for the database.

    By the way, my interest in this is purely academic at this point. I don't have a Blu-ray drive (so I can't rip Blu-ray discs) in my computer and I don't have any Blu-ray players that detect Cinavia. Still, I'd like to see Cinavia cracked, simply as a matter of principle.
    Last edited by jagabo; 4th Mar 2014 at 19:01.
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