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  1. Hi.

    I was looking to create a multi-boot on this computer:
    (- I got the specs from the Internet but I think it's pretty safe to assume that that's exactly what's inside this particular Acer I'm working with, too. -)
    Computer: Acer Aspire [Desktop PC]
    System Model: AX1300-E1820A
    Motherboard: Nvidia nForce 730a
    Processor: AMD Athlon (x64) 7550 2.5ghz
    Video Card: Integrated Nvidia Gforce 8200
    Sound Card: Integrated HD Audio + Integrated HDMI Audio

    First off, I want to install Windows 98 (Second Edition). Will that install on this PC?
    Not only that, but where can I get the drivers for Windows 98, too? Chipset, if needed, USB 2.0 if needed, but especially sound and graphics. Network drivers I think I can do without because I want Windows 98 for old-style gaming, so I don't care about Internet access in Win98.

    How about Windows 8(.1)? I believe this processor should support PAE and SSE2, but I still don't know if it supports NX.
    If I can install Windows 8 on this PC, again could someone tell me where to get the drivers, please? (This time of course I would like network drivers, too, in addition to the sound and graphics drivers.)

    The Acer website - http://us.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/drivers - only offers Windows Vista and 7 drivers.

    So, thanks in advance to whoever can give me pointers on successfully installing 98 and 8 on this system. Cheers!
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  2. It's better to run Windows 98 on a VM if you really want it. Win98 is no longer supported and you'll have a hell of a lot of fun finding hardware that tolerates it.
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  3. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    I don't know why you would want W8. It's really a touch screen OS and, IMO, has a lot of compatibility problems. But go ahead if you want.
    I recently converted a Acer laptop that was running Vista to W7 and only had to download one driver, the one for reading SD cards. All other drivers were on the W7 OS and seemed to work fine. The laptop is much faster now. I also upgraded the RAM to 2GB. Still low but OK for the applications it runs.

    W98, good luck with that. It usually requires downloaded drivers for every PC device. Make sure you have those drivers before trying to install W98.

    I would stick with W7. If you really want W8, the W7 drivers 'might' work. But I wouldn't try it.

    What OS does the PC presently have? And how much hard drive space and how much RAM? Being a desktop, it's probably got enough of both, but you never know. The Acer laptop I converted had Vista, a 80GB hard drive and 512MB RAM. I don't know why it even worked with Vista.
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  4. That's why I'm asking here for the drivers, guys.
    In VM or not, running Win98 still requires drivers. But I don't know where to get them. I'm asking for help.
    And I've never seen in person Windows 8 at work. Maybe I'll like it. In any case, I'd like to install it and make up my mind by myself. But why are there no official Win8 drivers for this Acer?

    I know XP, Vista and 7 would all be better for this machine. And I will definitely attempt to include one or two of those in the multi-boot...
    But where are the drivers for 8?
    (And should I try XP drivers on Windows 98 for this particular PC? Might they work?)
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  5. Redwudz, why would you say the 7 drivers might work on 8 but you wouldn't try it? Would they be liable to mess up the installation?

    The PC currently has 7 Home Premium, but I'll get rid of that. Hard drive space is definitely enough. And the RAM is more than specified for any Windows OS, even 7 64-bit - 3 GB.

    So why wouldn't you try 7 drivers on 8?
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  6. If you need WIN98SE, buy a HP 5720. Itīs cheap. I did.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqauRKhjulM
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  7. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    I meant I wouldn't try W8 as it's a fair expense just for having a somewhat awkward OS. Just my opinion. I run it on my laptop and it gives me problems all the time. W7 never did.
    Since you already have W7, then the W8 drivers on the OS disc will probably work OK and you wouldn't need ones from Acer. If one doesn't work, then try a W7 driver.

    If you really want to install W98, just find out what MB the Acer is using, along with what devices are on it, You may be able to find W98 drivers for the brand and model of sound card, video card, modem, etc. If you have a spare hard drive, I would probably temporarily replace the boot drive with it to experiment, but you can try a dual boot setup with the existing boot drive. I would back up the OS first with something like Acronis True Image or similar in case you trash the W7 OS.
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  8. Member
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    Originally Posted by newsgroup guy View Post
    Redwudz, why would you say the 7 drivers might work on 8 but you wouldn't try it? Would they be liable to mess up the installation?

    The PC currently has 7 Home Premium, but I'll get rid of that. Hard drive space is definitely enough. And the RAM is more than specified for any Windows OS, even 7 64-bit - 3 GB.

    So why wouldn't you try 7 drivers on 8?
    I'm using Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 8.1 on a regular basis. Generally speaking, Windows 7 device drivers will work with Windows 8 or 8.1, but it isn't a 100% certainty. There can be exceptions to that rule.

    [Edit] I got Windows 8 as a free upgrade for the Beta version when it was first released to market, bought the Pro Pack and WMC for $40, and did the free update to Windows 8.1. I'm going to use the motherboard and CPU from this system for an HTPC after I upgrade, and this was an inexpensive way to buy an OS for it. Windows 8.1 is OK for HTPC use and hasn't given me many problems yet, but I am not using a great variety of programs with it. I will tell you that I bought Windows 7 Home for my upgraded system. I still want Windows Media Center and at this point, the cost for Windows 8 Pro with Media Center is now prohibitive. Although I think they might be a good fit for the HTPC, I don't really use Windows 8's apps or Start Screen often and didn't want to pay extra to have them available after I upgrade.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 16th Feb 2014 at 10:13.
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  9. Member
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    Originally Posted by newsgroup guy View Post
    Redwudz, why would you say the 7 drivers might work on 8 but you wouldn't try it? Would they be liable to mess up the installation?

    The PC currently has 7 Home Premium, but I'll get rid of that. Hard drive space is definitely enough. And the RAM is more than specified for any Windows OS, even 7 64-bit - 3 GB.

    So why wouldn't you try 7 drivers on 8?
    Maybe you'll actually like Win 8, but most people think it sucks. Generally the better your tech skills are, the more you will hate it. There may not be Win 8 drives for that Acer because it's an older PC (I am guessing here) and getting Win 8 drivers working was such a pain that they didn't bother to do it for older hardware.

    Do note that Microsoft's recommendation on memory is enough to get it barely half-assed working, not "more than enough to be comfortable with". You may or may not be OK at 3 GB, but I'd feel more comfortable if you were at 4 GB. Honestly, you probably don't need more than 4 GB though.
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  10. Member
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    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    You may or may not be OK at 3 GB, but I'd feel more comfortable if you were at 4 GB. Honestly, you probably don't need more than 4 GB though.
    I'd agree with you that the OP probably should not install less than 4 GB of RAM if using a 64-bit version of Windows 8(.1). However I have 4 GB installed using a 32-bit version of Windows 8.1, and the OS sees only about 3.25 GB of that. I'd see a bit less than 3 GB if I had a graphics adapter with its own memory instead of onboard graphics.
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  11. Originally Posted by redwudz View Post
    If you really want to install W98, just find out what MB the Acer is using, along with what devices are on it, You may be able to find W98 drivers for the brand and model of sound card, video card, modem, etc.
    I posted that info a little higher on the page. Can you use it to help me find the sound driver, please? At least the sound driver. I'll manage with the graphics.

    I've been Googling for hours, but I can't seem to find anything, not only good but even usable at all.

    "Motherboard: Nvidia nForce 730a
    Processor: AMD Athlon (x64) 7550 2.5ghz
    Video Card: Integrated Nvidia GeForce 8200
    Sound Card: Integrated HD Audio + Integrated HDMI Audio"

    Thanks, Redwudz, and everybody else for the pointers.

    P.S. I'm not worried about trashing the W7 OS, because I want to re-install everything anyway. So I will start from scratch.
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  12. Hey, should I try this one here:
    http://drivers.downloadatoz.com/vendor_nvidia_type_sound-card/148899,nvidia-nforce-aud.../download.html ??

    (It says it's for Windows 98 SE also. The only one I could find.)

    806 kB. (Should I try it without worries, or might it be a scam? The files inside are ALut.dll, nvack.dll, nvapu.sys, nvarm.sys, nvasio.dll, nvaudio.nvu, nvax.sys, nvcoad.dll, nvcoam.dll, nvmcp.cat, nvmcp.inf, nvmcp.sys, nvmpu.inf, nvmpu.nvu, nvmpu401.sys, nvopenal.dll, nvuaudio.exe, nvumpu.exe, OpenAL32.dll.)
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  13. Member
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    downloadatoz is a site full of crap and long winding run arounds ... don't bother.

    The video card my operate but functions requiring directx 10 are not available to pre vista operating systems.

    This also means the integrated gpu will be operating outside of its intended usage and may suffer damage as a result ... it's your choice to continue.
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  14. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Drivers for W98? You don't need no stinkin' drivers!

    Seriously, if you're wanting to install W98 on more modern equipment than was available for the Win16/32/DOS era, you won't find real/good drivers for them. However, if you are installing into a VM, you won't need to. The VM already has stock drivers available in it's install.
    Granted, those stock drivers will never allow one to take advantage of those newer/more advanced features that would be available in Native mode, but the W98 OS wouldn't know what to do with those features anyway. Best to use a W98 VM strictly for what W98 did OK with (and what newer OSes couldn't do better): W98-era Games. The stock SVGA & SoundBlaster type drivers built into the VM & W98 installs should work as well as could be expected.
    I certainly would NOT trust any drivers NOT provided either by the MS VM, the W98 install discs, or the original hardware manufacturers' driver discs themselves.

    That PC doesn't sound like it would work well with W8. Stick with 7 & use VMs (with stock/generic drivers) for older stuff. 'Nuff said.

    Scott

    <edit>BTW, I say this from experience...I just ran a copy!</edit>
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 17th Feb 2014 at 01:52.
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  15. Member
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    I forgot about this.

    Originally Posted by newsgroup guy View Post
    How about Windows 8(.1)? I believe this processor should support PAE and SSE2, but I still don't know if it supports NX.
    A free command line utility, Coreinfo, can tell you if it supports SSE2 , NX and PAE. coreinfo -f will provide a list of features in the cmd.exe window http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/cc835722

    That being said, Windows 8(.1) is more likely to work or work better with something a little newer. My Athlon II x2 250 CPU and AM3 motherboard from 2009 are sufficient, although features that require a UEFI BIOS are unavailable. Of course Windows 98 SE would have to be run as a VM.
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  16. Originally Posted by newsgroup guy View Post
    That's why I'm asking here for the drivers, guys.
    In VM or not, running Win98 still requires drivers.
    No, Win98 in a VM doesn't need drivers. The hardware that Win98 expects is emulated so you don't need to worry about any of that. That's why I suggested a VM if you really want Windows 98 but I don't see a reason why anybody would want that outdated OS. Nothing is compatible with it, it doesn't support a CPU faster than about 1 Ghz without a specialized patch etc.
    Windows 8 sucks just as bad IMO but at least it's supported.
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    Originally Posted by newsgroup guy View Post
    ... I believe this processor should support PAE and SSE2, but I still don't know if it supports NX. ...
    It's a 64 bit cpu. PAE support is meaningless.

    For sse2 and nx, do a frakkin' search. It took me 10 seconds to find it.

    Installing Win98 would, as mentioned, be best done in a VM, you don't need drivers with a VM, and it's a stupid idea anyway.

    Finally, I do not know one single person who uses windows 8 who likes it. This includes a spectrum of people from fairly inexperienced senior citizens to professional programmers who only have it because they couldn't get a machine with anything else (they know better). Why would you want it?
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  18. Member Snakebyte1's Avatar
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    I just set up a Win98SE VM last week on VirtualBox . I installed the Universal VGA drivers to get to full 32-bit colour. Other than that I understand that you may need to install RAIN2.0 if you are getting high CPU usage rates for the VM process.

    There are several YouTube tutorials on setting up Win98 on a VM.
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  19. Member Snakebyte1's Avatar
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    In regards to Windows8, be aware that the 64 bit version of of Win8.1 will not work on some hardware that Win8.0 did. If you are just evaluating the OS I'd stick with 32-bit...

    http://(http://www.pcworld.com/article/2058683/new-windows-8-1-requirements-strand-som...indows-8.html)

    Not a fan of Win8/8.1 at all but after I installed Classic Shell to get the start menu back it became at least usable.
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  20. Originally Posted by Mephesto View Post
    No, Win98 in a VM doesn't need drivers.

    But IT DOES!

    100% it does. For audio, it sure does.

    I know, because I have installed Windows 98 in VMware Workstation 7 before, and it had no sound until I searched and searched and found a driver which made the sound work finally.
    (You believe me now, right?)
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  21. Originally Posted by Hoser Rob View Post
    Why would you want it? -- EDIT: Windows 8(.1) --

    Only because I want to have every single Windows fully-usable-by-itself OS ever released to the public.
    (So, no windows 3.something, or earlier, but all from 95 onwards.)
    Yes, that's why.

    I don't plan on using it as my main go-to OS, though, no. I still enjoy XP best, and 7 for editing and rendering/burning.

    Now you know. I don't know why you would want to know anyway, but there it is.
    Last edited by newsgroup guy; 26th Feb 2014 at 22:39.
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  22. Thank you very much, usually_quiet, for the tool.

    And to everyone else for the responses.

    Now, look, regarding Win98SE, it won't pain me at all to try installing it. If it doesn't want to install, VM it is!
    But if it does install, and boots, and starts, and everything seems fine, all I want in that Windows 98 is to have sound also!
    Is that really too much to ask?
    How can things be so incompatible these days?!

    Yes, for the old games, that's the only reason why I want Windows 98, but who the hell wants to play any video games without sound?
    It's so pathetic that there is no audio driver I can use... Damn it!
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  23. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    I honestly don't know why you are having the trouble you are. Maybe it is the difference between VM formats (VMWare vs. VirtPC, etc).

    Here is an example of what I was saying earlier, which includes W98 in a VM box within an XP host, where everything works (including audio):
    Name:  Win98_wAudioDrivers_inVM_sm.gif
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Size:  75.9 KB

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  24. Member Snakebyte1's Avatar
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    I haven't used VMWare or VirtualPC, however, on Oracle VirtualBox, when you create your Win98 VM instance, select Soundblaster16 for the audio, then during the installation Win98SE will detect the audio "hardware" and install its own drivers.
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  25. Member ranchhand's Avatar
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    Windows 98 but I don't see a reason why anybody would want that outdated OS
    Just a comment.... I have an old W98 box with original everything strictly for old games (Mechwarrior 2&3, Wing Commander series, Serious Sam, etc.). I wouldn't recommend it for anything else. I suggest trying Ebay for drivers, but you are going to have to be patient. The hardware you have in the box probably isn't made anymore and the drivers you need must correspond to the hardware you have. Almost impossible, I have tried extensively. If one of my peripherals fails it's gonna' be tough. Ebay is about the only place I can think of and no guarantee there either.
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  26. ranchhand: Hmm, I had never even for one moment thought of that. Interesting. Thanks. (Probably there won't be any CD drivers on eBay for this particular computer, seeing as how it was never designed with Windows 98 in mind, but this suggestion could prove more useful for other computers.)

    Scott and Snakebyte1: I guess on some setups the audio might work out of the box, but like I said I did install Windows 98 in VMware from a CDR in Windows 7 (on another computer, not the same one we're talking about here) and I swear it did need separate audio driver. And I even found an Internet thread/article where people were needing this, and this guy had posted a tutorial, saying how this generic driver should work for everybody needing it, and it did work, so yeah in some cases even in VM W98 does not install 100% usable out of the box. I swear I'm not lying, and it did happen to me (not a friend or other people on the Internet). I found it very interesting to see that you guys were right also, though. Two sides to every story.
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  27. I just found out I can't use/install Windows 98 on that computer, anyway, because it has all SATA connections, and Windows 98 doesn't support SATA drives.

    Oh, well... VM!
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  28. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    The hardware is abstracted! IOW, if your Host OS can see the drive & mount it & give it a drive letter, the emulation in the VM will CONVERT the generic driver calls into Host-specific hardware calls, so it shouldn't care WHAT kind of drive you have. Note that those generic drivers are Lowest-Common-Denominator, so advanced capabilities of drives would not be available (it would be slower, etc). I would think this includes SATA drives, too, as long as they are in IDE-compatible mode. <edit>this probably is only applicable if you are capturing a whole drive to use within the Guest OS, instead of the recommended practice of creating a VHD image file and accessing that</edit>

    Also note, Win98 would only be able to see up to a 128GB local HDD (IIRC). Network shares could, of course, be whatever size.

    Normally, you do NOT access a whole physical HDD from a VM Guest OS. Instead, you create a Virtual HDD image from the VM settings panel(s) - while the VM is NOT running - and then within the Guest OS using the Guest OS's fdisk utility (or similar 3rd party util that works within the VM), create a partition on the VHD. Reboot the VM Guest OS and then format the VHD from within the VM Guest OS as if normally doing it.

    I know it works: I just tried it on my Win98 VM OS. It had only a VM C: drive within it's scope. I added a 2GB 2nd VHD from a dynamic VHD file that exists on my SATA RAID HDD on my Host OS. Partitioned & formatted it. Works perfectly.

    I honestly don't know what you are doing wrong, but it must be something...

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  29. Oh, no, my friend, you misunderstood. I can't install Windows 98 physically. I was going to try (to install the real OS, on the real hardware!), even with potentially no drivers available for sound, but the installation CD of course would not detect the SATA DVD drive or the SATA hard-drive. That's what I was saying.

    Of course the VM will work. (Well, I expect it to...) That's what I meant by "Oh, well... VM!" -- VM will have to do now, was what I was saying there.
    But I haven't yet gotten to that point.

    Last edited by newsgroup guy; 6th Mar 2014 at 05:01.
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  30. ...And I posted that reply just for other people, who might be interested in doing the same thing as me, to know that they probably have SATA drives inside also, and they should forget about a real installation (and go straight for the virtual installation if they really want Win98).



    By the way, hey, speaking of which, what's so bad about Windows 98 FIRST edition? Why should it be avoided at all times?
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