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  1. Member boko's Avatar
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    i just bought a Panasonic NV HS1000 which i believe is in really good shape judging by the person i bought it from (i'm new to this so compared to the consumer vhs's i had this is ******* awsome).You can see my computer hardware. I'm capturing with Vdub, huffyuv, with the TBC on the panasonic On, using a Clicktronic s-video cable, and using currently an Avermedia EZcapture7 (did tries with a Pinnacle 100i on XP also, plus a 2nd hand Hauppage HVR3000 which has malfunction issues -displays diagonal lines even in bypass, even with the AV extra bracket(less than the standart s-video in though)). The EZmaker is a brand new one and gives the "best results" so don't bother with the other cards, just to mention the status. I'm attaching two sample videos (if they are too large please advice so i upload shorter ones). The 1st is with noise reduction on during capturing in 20% threshold, the 2nd just bypass capture with a different tape. The thing i can't tell is whether -mainly in the 2nd- the "jittering" i see (on the wall bricks or the edges of her clothes) is normal vhs noise, or combing issue (even with a s-video and not composite?), or something else? If burned on a dvd and displayed on a tv it's not so obvious but still exists so it could be more than just the difference in Monitor vs Tv display issue?

    Basicaly i need to ask if getting a better capture card will have less of this "jittering?", or this is normal vhs noise. Also i don't know if the VTR's TBC should clean more of this if so. Also the VTR has an RGB scart out, so if i would get a RGB->component cable and a card with component in (like colossus (which only captures mpeg2?) or some other) or just a dvd recorder and totaly skip the pc capturing-cleaning-editing would give any better results to the actual bypass capture. Tοo many questions sorry about that
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    Last edited by boko; 10th Feb 2014 at 15:12.
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  2. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    a is only 720x480 yet 25fps. That's not right.
    b is 720x576 25fps, which is what I would expect from "PAL" tapes.

    I've no idea how good the TBC is in that VCR. If the VCR's TBC is working properly, a different capture device is unlikely to reduce the jittering with that VCR.

    I would say the quality is OK, but not brilliant. In terms of the amount of line jitter, it is maybe a little worse than you might expect, but not that much worse. It is impossible to say since the tapes may be good, bad, or indifferent.

    Other people are bound to have an opinion ...

    Cheers,
    David.
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  3. i just bought a Panasonic NV HS1000 which i believe is in really good shape judging by the person i bought it from (i'm new to this so compared to the consumer vhs's i had this is ******* awsome)
    Judging by the last "recommendation" by our very knowledgeable hardware person orsetto it is very difficult ( if not impossible) to find in good shape some of the previous recommended high SVHS VCRs ( like AG1980 aka FS200 or this panny HS1000). I had 3 of those ( HS1000 and only one of them was in acceptable condition the other two were like train had past over them, and I looked for them long long time). I have FS200 which is in very good condition but I dont use it so much as before. Although HS1000 ( it is only Pal Europe model no US alternative) is newer model than AG1980 it has the same TBC as in Ag1980, but one thing that it lacks is "proper" noise reduction like it older brother and has some substitute system CVC. From my experience (not just mine) HS1000 has more noisy picture than Ag1980, and they seemed to fixed the "over-sharpening" that AG1980 used to do ( some times or when playing "wrongly" with the slider.

    The 1st is with noise reduction on during capturing in 20% threshold
    I wouldn't use VDUb noise reduction while capturing it is better to use noise reduction after.

    Basicaly i need to ask if getting a better capture card will have less of this "jittering?", or this is normal vhs noise. Also i don't know if the VTR's TBC should clean more of this if so. Also the VTR has an RGB scart out, so if i would get a RGB->component cable and a card with component in (like colossus (which only captures mpeg2?) or some other) or just a dvd recorder and totaly skip the pc capturing-cleaning-editing would give any better results to the actual bypass capture. Tοo many questions sorry about that
    With better card (what ever that means) you will definitely get better picture ( less noise,more detail, sharpen picture, less or not at all dot crawl and so on.

    Not much you will gain from component capturing vs Svideo from VHS
    http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/305651-Sony-SVO-5800-(or-other-SVHS-decks)-with-Com...289&viewfull=1

    I would say the quality is OK, but not brilliant. In terms of the amount of line jitter, it is maybe a little worse than you might expect, but not that much worse. It is impossible to say since the tapes may be good, bad, or indifferent.
    I would have sad something similar.

    I see that the tape was probably of Air ( satellite maybe? nova channels?) and that it is the movie Basic Instinct, you can get the Blue Ray version http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Instinct-Unrated-Directors-Blu-ray/dp/B000O5B4C4 which will be far more superior than anything you do with the transfer, and probably cheaper too.

    I don't understand why people capture from VHS commercial movies (Hollywood movies) to DVD which are available as Blue ray ( or DVD). A lot of waste of time and mediocre quality

    The point of capturing something from VHS or other analog formats is to preserve something that is not available on the commercials DVD or blue ray and of course home made movies.
    Last edited by mammo1789; 11th Feb 2014 at 21:58.
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  4. Member boko's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mammo1789 View Post
    I see that the tape was probably of Air ( satellite maybe? nova channels?) and that it is the movie Basic Instinct, you can get the Blue Ray version
    it's a copy that was distributed along with a magazine. I'm testing with these ones because they're in way better shape than my own recordings so i can have a cleaner test signal.

    Originally Posted by mammo1789 View Post
    Although HS1000 ( it is only Pal Europe model no US alternative) is newer model than AG1980 it has the same TBC as in Ag1980
    i'm starting to realize that the EZmaker7 is quite crappy, it started giving an enormous amount of inserted frames (0 dropped...). So i've read that the Blackmagic Intensity Pro has issues if used without a TBC. Has anyone got any experience if it will work with my VCR's onboard one? Or to wrap it up even nicer, is it any good when you only care about the analog in part? any of these that you would go for?:

    http://avertv.avermedia.com/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=471
    http://avertv.avermedia.com/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=528
    http://avertv.avermedia.com/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=499
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  5. i'm starting to realize that the EZmaker7 is quite crappy, it started giving an enormous amount of inserted frames (0 dropped...). So i've read that the Blackmagic Intensity Pro has issues if used without a TBC
    Using DVD Recorders (Pannasonic ES15,ES10, some Toshibas Philips and maybe others) as passtrough line TBC and Frame synchronizer machines + Regular VCR in mint or very good condition is much cheaper variant than gamble with very old equipment and will give you stable output without dropped or inserted frames and will give fair good results ( You can always get the recorder in addition to your panny 1000). Also when I use only VCR to PC card direct connection for good tapes I never get dropped frames but for some bad tapes it knows some times to insert frame or two.With the DVD recorders in chain i never get dropped frames although the picture maybe slight not "sharp" as before.

    The capturing software setup is also important (in addition to hardware setup) and is sometimes responsible for dropped frames.

    Maybe I am wrong but TV(capture) cards these days are not so bad as some think. (I have Aver media satellite trinity which has newest Philips chip 72x which gives cleaner picture than my previous cards that used Philips 7131 chip ( Pinnacle 110i ) and Asus Tv 7134 chip which are also pretty descent chips and cards and had never let me down and are very very cheep.
    I also had EZmaker (not 7) very old card and it was crap but your model seems USB and much newer.
    Last edited by mammo1789; 13th Feb 2014 at 07:06.
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  6. i saw both samples and i must say that definitely something is wrong, my impression is that capture was performed incorrectly, some fields was lost, quality of material can be a limitation, recommend cleaning for whole tape path and afraid that cleaning tape can be insufficient - it should be done by some serviceman in a correct way, rollers, sliders, drum with heads etc.
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  7. It is a must, to clean (with alcohol)merchandise purchased second hand. I am even close to been paranoid ( because of the bacteria, gank,dust, cigarette smoke and so on).

    OP should post his Vdub (or other) setup, 720x576 (or even 768x576 if for other than DVD) 25fps interlaced TFF capture is right for PAL
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  8. Member boko's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mammo1789 View Post
    You can always get the recorder in addition to your panny 1000
    i'm not familiar with the slang by panny you mean shiny or shitty?

    Originally Posted by mammo1789 View Post
    Also when I use only VCR to PC card direct connection for good tapes I never get dropped frames but for some bad tapes it knows some times to insert frame or two
    the EZmaker7 usb, when it doesn't insert it DOESN'T insert (stays to 0). When it does insert, it keeps on doing it in patterns of 3 (3,6,9...) so you can totally see the lag (freeze frames). It is the same with several software i tried. Same tape, same settings with the Hauppage 3000 no lag.

    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    recommend cleaning for whole tape path
    you mean cleaning the vcr? haven't tried with cleaning tape yet, should i try that first?
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  9. Member boko's Avatar
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    I wasn't so much into opening and cleaning (not really familiar in cleaning vcr's ) if i really didn't have to. here's another sample for the EZmaker7 (it's mpeg2 cause i wanted to compare with a hardware-mpeg capture from the hauppage) from a tape which doesn't drop or insert any frames.
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  10. Originally Posted by boko View Post
    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    recommend cleaning for whole tape path
    you mean cleaning the vcr? haven't tried with cleaning tape yet, should i try that first?
    Yes, definitely, even few times but still - cleaning tape can help but anyway - whole tape path should be wet cleaned and don't use cotton buds for this! especially for heads (on drum) - they are very fragile and they can be easily broken by using not lint free clothing like common cotton buds - cotton buds are OK for audio, servo, erase head but not for video heads - my colleague prefer stripe of very clean paper placed over drum, with few drops of isopropyl alcohol. Paper should be soft type, without glass powder or glass powder should be very fine - good - recommended paper is special paper used for cleaning optics (not scratching glass, no remains) so called Lens Paper.

    This is why i recommend to give VCR to good serviceman that have knowledge about VCR.
    Also besides this video tape can be cleaned in wet way - in past it was available machines to do this automatically, ferromagnetic layer is not resistant to wear and it was recommended to clean tape surface itself (usually wet - isopropyl alcohol once again pads and slow winding to allow tape dry before it will be winded back on reel).

    And follow other people advice - focus during capture only on capturing not on capturing together with video processing (like noise reduction) - your main goal is to capture data, those data can be processed (usually with better quality) latter - offline.
    I assume this why i saw some fields lost during capture on samples (micro freezes with temporally disturbed field order).
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  11. a part.avi was obviously captured incorrectly (NTSC frame size, PAL frame rate). b part.avi is a proper cap with PAL frame size and frame rate. It looks a little noisier than I would expect. You shouldn't be capturing as RGB. Capture as YUY2 or some other YUV 4:2:2 packing -- that's closer to the actual video content. Compress as YUY2 too. Using RGB risks losing super-blacks and super-brights. Though it wasn't an issue with those two caps.
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  12. Member boko's Avatar
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    so i opened it up to have a look inside, and believe me I have more dust on me,than the interior. The person i bought it from reeealy looked like the guy that calls his machines "my little babies". Was reading somewhere that on certain vcrs it's bad to use a cleaning tape because they're auto cleaned? Anyway i'm gonna do some reading on it as well, cause up to now i focused on getting the equipment. As for the captures i'm not sure how i ended up especially with the 480 horizontal or the RGB, cause i capture on YUV2 in 720x576. Maybe i was capturing in VirtualVCR which sometimes undos the settings i put on the Capture Pin.
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  13. Member boko's Avatar
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    oh i just remembered i have huffyuv in "suggest RGB for output". probably that's the issue
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