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  1. Member
    Join Date: Nov 2013
    Location: Grimsby, N.E. Lincolnshire. UK
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    Hi, I have been around the block a million times with this.

    Here's what I have:
    Source - MTS files 1920x1080 50fps (Canon HF R406)
    Software - Corel video studio 6, Sony Vegas 11, various converters.

    Here's what I need:
    To produce home movie video files of good quality for TV, played from a media hard drive. (multiple formats)

    Here's what I need to know:
    What project settings do I use in either software?
    What format, size, fps etc do I render to?
    Will I need to convert the source files before editing?
    What is the norm for people editing the same file format, to store & view on TV?

    Thanks,
    Colin
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 06:29.
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  3. Member
    Join Date: Nov 2013
    Location: Grimsby, N.E. Lincolnshire. UK
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    Hi Sanlyn,
    Thank you for your input and I appreciate your expertise in this field but I am completely baffled by your response.

    A) I don't use a laptop for video editing.

    B) If the software does not comply with the source video then there must be a format conversion solution, any suggestions?

    C) Why would you want to see my videos? I did mention they were home movies. As far as manuals go, over the past 3 weeks I have probably read more manuals than Stephen Hawkins in trying to find a simple solution to this situation.

    D) Again, I did mention that I have a hard disc media player that is capable of playing multiple formats. The camera doesn't come with any editing software only an image importer program.

    I just don't get this.
    Basically, you are saying that the HD format produced by these relatively new camcorders cannot be edited on Sony & Corel (above average, not free download) software to produce a good quality file that can be stored & viewed on a TV?
    If that is the case then I must inform Canon that despite selling mountains of the product, they are totally useless for anyone wishing to shoot home movies..............Give me a break.

    Others will be faced with the same problem. There is a solution to this, I just don't think that you are the right person to come up with it.

    Thanks anyway.
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  4. Member
    Join Date: Mar 2008
    Location: United States
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    I think sanlyn picked up your laptop from your profile info.

    Are you talking about editing the video for transitions, cuts,titles,etc,etc? In general, you need to know the limitations
    of your devices. For example, it would probably be necessary to go down to 25 fps @ 1080p, or lower the resolution
    to 720p and maintain the 50 fps.

    Have you run some tests to find out what works and what looks best? As far as I'm aware, your software should
    be able to access the camera files. Have you tried it?
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  5. Member
    Join Date: Jun 2012
    Location: USA
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    Originally Posted by showdoctor View Post
    What project settings do I use in either software?
    Simply match your source 1920x1080 50fps (i or p?) It's usually best to import the whole folder.

    Originally Posted by showdoctor View Post
    What format, size, fps etc do I render to?
    Depends on how you will be using it. DVD requires 720x576 25fps mpeg2, YouTube wants 5,000kb mp4, etc.

    Originally Posted by showdoctor View Post
    Will I need to convert the source files before editing?
    You shouldn't have to in Vegas, don't know about Corel. A lot depends how strong your machine is.

    Originally Posted by showdoctor View Post
    What is the norm for people editing the same file format, to store & view on TV?
    There is no normal anymore. It depends on what you use to play it. DVD, BR, Mediaplayer, etc.

    Originally Posted by showdoctor View Post
    C) Why would you want to see my videos? I did mention they were home movies.
    No one wants to watch your home movies, they want to see how the files are structured to give more specific advice.
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  6. Member
    Join Date: Nov 2013
    Location: Grimsby, N.E. Lincolnshire. UK
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    Thanks guys for the quick response. I have tried and tested a number of different conversions going in (obviously losing quality along the way) & various formats when rendering. Some look great but are often quite large files, others not so good.

    The camera has a number of recording options:
    50P: 1920 x 1080, 28Mbps;
    MXP 50i: 1920x1080, 24Mbps;
    FXP 50i: 1920x1080, 17Mbps;
    LP 50i: 1440x1080, 5Mbps
    Four MP4 quality recording modes
    50p: 1920 x 1080, 35Mbps;
    25p: 1920 x 1080, 24Mbps,
    25p: 1920 x 1080, 17Mbps,
    25p: 1280 x 720, 4Mbps

    Am I asking too much in using the highest quality? Maybe I'm trying to get blood out of a stone here?
    Should I record in a different format which will be more suitable to the software?
    Both Vegas & Video Studio are sluggish when previewing the 1920 x 1080 50fps formats.


    Are you talking about editing the video for transitions, cuts,titles,etc,etc? In general, you need to know the limitations
    of your devices. For example, it would probably be necessary to go down to 25 fps @ 1080p, or lower the resolution
    to 720p and maintain the 50 fps.
    That's exactly what I am hoping to do, simple editing and save to play on TV.
    Previously I owned a Sony DV (Tape) Handycam. It was so easy to edit the footage in Sony Vegas and burn it to DVD. Those DVDs have now been ripped to our media hard drive and we want to continue the collection with a better quality camera. I just didn't realise that it was going to be so difficult to achieve the same results, &, with the advances in camera technology I thought the end result would be much higher quality. But, as it seems, regardless of the recording quality, by the time I have converted and/or rendered down to DVD, am I right in saying that the final result won't be much different to that recorded with the old Sony camera?

    Thanks again for the input.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 06:29.
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  8. Member
    Join Date: Nov 2013
    Location: Grimsby, N.E. Lincolnshire. UK
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    Thank you Sanlyn for your help. I will try some of the camera's other recording options, see if that makes life easier.
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  9. Member budwzr's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2007
    Location: City Of Angels
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    In Sony Vegas, you simply match the project to the media, using the "Media Match" button in the top right corner of the project properties dialog box. Then use a matching render template.
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  10. Member
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Location: Canada
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    If the content of the home movies is even remotely important or sentimental , you're going to want to record at the highest quality level, or you will probably regret it later

    You can always dumb it down for your media player, or upgrade your computer, use an intermediate editing codec etc.. but it's (still) difficult to time travel

    The most popular windows intermediate codec would be cineform . The free version is "go pro cineform studio". The filesize will be several times larger than your original, because it's less compressed - but that makes editing smooth at full resolution even on older hardware. It has several selectable quality levels (thus control over larger vs. smaller filesizes)
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 06:29.
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  12. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    The video is from a camera. Of course you can't make any editing "stick" unless you render it out.

    But no worries. Digital video can have many good generations. That's why they use digital prints now, and the film goes into storage.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 06:30.
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  14. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    Location: United Kingdom
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    Originally Posted by showdoctor View Post
    regardless of the recording quality, by the time I have converted and/or rendered down to DVD, am I right in saying that the final result won't be much different to that recorded with the old Sony camera?
    Yes. You've bought an HD camcorder. Work in HD. Forget DVDs. They are SD only.

    (Even DV can be better quality than DVD, though still SD - you were already reducing the quality of your old camcorder tapes by putting them onto DVD, though probably only slightly. You would dramatically reduce the quality of 1920x1080p50 by putting it onto a 720x576i25 DVD)

    Cheers,
    David.
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  15. Member
    Join Date: Nov 2013
    Location: Grimsby, N.E. Lincolnshire. UK
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    Hi David,
    I wish it was as easy to wok in HD as it was in SD, but from info gathered here I have quickly found out that without a "high end" machine and expensive software the task is somewhat difficult.
    The raw (MTS) footage is impossible to edit on Vegas & Video Studio so I am compelled to convert to a more friendly format, obviously losing quality along the way. After completing a number of tests it seems the MPG2 1280 x 720 25fps format is the most favorable both in and out.
    So until some other option comes along it looks like I am stuck with it.

    I just wondered, what is the point of being able to shoot in HD if your "average joe" like me can no longer edit & render to something for the family album without losing all that quality along the way? Does this mean that "home video" enthusiasts who migrated from DV tape to HD can no longer edit & keep those memories without spending money on hardware & software upgrades?

    Cheers,
    Colin
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  16. Member
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Location: Canada
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    You didn't list your computer specs . Did you try reducing the preview quality in vegas ?

    If upgrading hardware isn't an option, the other option is a proxy edit - people have been doing this since HD came out . Basically you use low resolution, lower quality intermediates to edit (so editing is smooth), and swap back in full quality originals when you export

    Cineform as a digital intermediate will allow you to edit smoothly in full resolution , high quality, if you have a computer within the last 5 years (at least a dual core)
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  17. Banned
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 06:30.
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  18. Originally Posted by showdoctor View Post
    I just wondered, what is the point of being able to shoot in HD if your "average joe" like me can no longer edit & render to something for the family album without losing all that quality along the way?
    Bottom line is, you have to add price for latest, fast computer on the top of your new camcorder if you intend to edit it and make movies. You have to have PC up to specs to manage HD mpeg4- avc video.

    Making those mpeg2 files you basicaly making proxy files, get them encoded under the same name as originals, find something that will batch encode the whole folder. Then edit those proxy videos, and after you are done just replace those proxy files with originals. This works, even most raw method: save project, exit, move folder with those proxy videos from original location, and load that save project again, Vegas will find out that its files are not there anymore and asks what to do, gives some options, so you just pinpoint location into your folder with original videos. Vegas wil simply replace proxy files for originals ones in your project. Then fix project properties to original video properties and export ....

    Proxy is a nuisance, you have to have your files stored neatly and separate them from originals, you should leave same names for proxy and original. But nevertheless it will bring you a HD movie as a result ...
    Last edited by _Al_; 11th Feb 2014 at 09:13.
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