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  1. Member
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    I've downloaded some DVD-Audio rips (ATS_01_0.BUP/ATS_01_1.AOB/ATS_01_0.IFO/etc) and cannot get my compatible player to playback the discs. It is SACD/DVD Audio compatible. The discs I am using are good as I have burned some SACD iso's using them. So far I've tried just burning the AUDIO_TS folder with Nero in data mode and DVD mode with the VIDEO_TS folder with both ISO and UDF. Neither has worked. Is there a certain way to burn these types of discs? Thanks!
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  2. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
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    You could also try imgburn. It should automatically configure it for dvd-video/audio if you add a VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folder.

    Have you tried home burned dvd-r/w dvd-video on your player? Does it work? Some players doesn't like home burned dvd-r/w.
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    DVD-Audio needs TWO directories (or "folders" if you prefer the Windows term):
    AUDIO_TS (this is where your files go)
    VIDEO_TS (this is where DVD compatibility menus go)

    If you did not get any VIDEO_TS files then I am not sure that you can burn a disc that your player will ever recognize.

    It's not possible for consumers to burn SACD discs. Having said that, if you'd like to prove me wrong and educate me out of my ignorance on just how this is possible, I welcome that.
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  4. vanished El Heggunte's Avatar
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    Assuming you have an UN-encrypted DVD-Audio folder...

    --- open a command prompt and "cd" to a convenient working directory

    --- inside this latter, create a folder named "newalbum"

    --- copy the DVD-A files to it

    --- execute the following command-line

    Code:
    dvda2fs -v -volid DVDAUDIO -dvd-audio -o output.iso newalbum
    --- and finally, record "output.ISO" on a DVD-R

    If even this all doesn't work, we may conclude your hardware DVD-Audio player is pickier than it should be?

    dvda2fs.exe (actually a hexedit of a modified mkisofs) attached below.
    Attached Files
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  5. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    I'm skeptical of the OP's claims. Jman98 is spot-on: true SACDs are NOT capable of being burned BY ANY BURNER, whether consumer or professional. That's because there has never been a burner made that is capable of adding the SACD-specific pit modulation. And there never will be, because Sony/Philips don't want their format accessible to be created by anyone but LICENSED pressing plants.

    Could be a DSD disc in disguise.
    Could be the standard Audio CD layer of an SACD ripped (more likely), but then that would burn as a standard audio CD.

    I'm also skeptical about all this "downloading DVD-A rips" business. Sounds like warez to me.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  6. Member
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    It's definitely warez, and it's quite correct that you can't burn SACD.

    The burning program may have been smart enough to downsample to redbook spec if the OP has done this before.

    Which is appropriate. There was a study published in the AES journal a few years ago comparing 24 bit and redbook using double blind, level matched ABX tests. They did hundreds of trials.

    The accuracy rate of the test subjects being able to distinguish between the 2 was about 49%. Ie. no better than chance.

    So downloading 24/192 or 24/96 is just a waste of bandwidth and drive space. The files take 6X the space of flacs.

    If you look at torrent sites there are tons of them for 24 bit vinyl rips. Using $350 phono systems. Ie. worse than redbook.
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  7. Member
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    OK I think I was unclear in my post. I have downloaded MANY SACD iso rips which I burned and have been playing on my Pioneer SACD compatible DVD player. My Pioneer receiver recognizes the DSD format and displays "DSD". It will also output 5.1 if it is a multichannel SACD . The original SACD's were ripped with a PS3 using some sort of plug-in I believe. If you search the net, there are many available, and they are not 'warez', they are real just as the DVD-Audio rips I have downloaded are real.

    About DVD-Audio. When burning these, there is no need for a VIDEO_TS folder just like there is no need for an AUDIO_TS folder when burning a regular DVD. I know this because the few DVD-Audio discs I have burned so far play in my car stereo that supports DVD-A just fine. It also displays DVD-Audio when the disc is inserted. I'm guessing that even though my Pioneer DVD player supports DVD-Audio, it doesnt support DVD-Audio on a DVD-R.

    Also, I dont want this thread to turn into a debate on whether or not high rez audio sounds better. I enjoy listening to multichannel music (esp if it's mixed right) which is why I prefer DVD-A / SACD. Has anyone ever heard Dark Side of the Moon in 5.1? Sounds incredible.
    Last edited by smackyourfupa; 30th Jan 2014 at 17:38.
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  8. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    If the titles in question were downloaded, but you do not own & have in possession legit physical originals, and/or had not paid through a producer-licensed site for the privilege, yes those ARE warez! (whether CD, DVD-V, DVD-A, SACD, BluRay or anything else).

    I stand partially corrected: those SACDs may have been retrieved (via some PS3 exploit), but what you are burning is a DSD disc (which you stated yourself). Depending on the procedure used, the DSD stream could have been captured & reauthored, or the DSD file/format structure could have been file-transferred. Hard to tell. And probably only makes a slight difference in utility, not in quality.

    Assuming it ISN'T warez, a check on the model# of the Pioneer car player (and its manual) should tell whether it accepts writables/rewritables or not. That should have been the first thing checked.

    Scott
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 30th Jan 2014 at 18:03.
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  9. Member
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    If the titles in question were downloaded, but you do not own & have in possession legit physical originals, and/or had not paid through a producer-licensed site for the privilege, yes those ARE warez! (whether CD, DVD-V, DVD-A, SACD, BluRay or anything else).

    I stand partially corrected: those SACDs may have been retrieved (via some PS3 exploit), but what you are burning is a DSD disc (which you stated yourself). Depending on the procedure used, the DSD stream could have been captured & reauthored, or the DSD file/format structure could have been file-transferred. Hard to tell. And probably only makes a slight difference in utility, not in quality.

    Assuming it ISN'T warez, a check on the model# of the Pioneer car player (and its manual) should tell whether it accepts writables/rewritables or not. That should have been the first thing checked.

    Scott
    Sorry about that, I dont really know what is considered warez and what isnt. The car deck isnt a Pioneer but it has the DVD Video/AUDIO logo on it as well as my home Pioneer DV610 home unit. Like I said, the car unit plays the burned DVD Audio discs but the home unit does not. I tried playing a couple in my car deck after creating this thread and being that they work in the car but not at home the only reasonable explanation is that the home player isnt capable of playing DVD-A-R's.
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  10. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Makes more sense now. So, what's the Pioneer (home unit) model #? You should try a known good ISO image, burned using ImgBurn, of a DVD-Video (like Big Buck Bunny or one of the other free, open-sourced movies), onto a HIGH-QUALITY DVD-R. My guess is that if it plays that ok, it will also play correctly-burned DVD-A's ok.
    Remember, this could be a media quality compatibility thing.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  11. Member
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Makes more sense now. So, what's the Pioneer (home unit) model #? You should try a known good ISO image, burned using ImgBurn, of a DVD-Video (like Big Buck Bunny or one of the other free, open-sourced movies), onto a HIGH-QUALITY DVD-R. My guess is that if it plays that ok, it will also play correctly-burned DVD-A's ok.
    Remember, this could be a media quality compatibility thing.

    Scott
    The Pioneer model is DV610-AV. Yeah I thought it could be the type of disc, but I've burned around 30 SACD ISO's and a couple of regular DVD's using the same discs and they play fine.
    The DVD-A's must be burned correctly or else I don't think they'd play in my car's system. Gotta be that my player just won't play DVD-A's on a DVD-/+R. I forgot to mention, it actually recognized the type of format as it displays "DVD-A" on the front panel when I insert a disc. Other than that, nothin.
    Thanks for all your help.
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    Originally Posted by smackyourfupa View Post
    OK I think I was unclear in my post. I have downloaded MANY SACD iso rips which I burned and have been playing on my Pioneer SACD compatible DVD player. My Pioneer receiver recognizes the DSD format and displays "DSD". It will also output 5.1 if it is a multichannel SACD . The original SACD's were ripped with a PS3 using some sort of plug-in I believe. If you search the net, there are many available, and they are not 'warez', they are real just as the DVD-Audio rips I have downloaded are real.
    I've never heard of this before, but I did a Google search (SACD rip PS3) and found that certain early models of the PS3 ignore SACD copy protection (BIG mistake there, Sony dumbasses) and with the installation of custom firmware it is actually possible to rip ISOs of SACDs. Thanks for the info.
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  13. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    After reading the manual, it's hard to say whether the Pioneer actually does support R/RW for DVD-A. Has it EVER supported any other DVD-A R/RW discs? If so, it's likely an authoring error that is JUST off enough to mess up the Pioneer but not the car player. Note that with the Pioneer, one must use analog outs for multichannel DVD-A to hear any sound (I assume you already knew this, but that could affect things). Supposedly also, when it encounters a DVD-A burned disc that it doesn't like, it would show "DVD-A" on the screen but come to a dead stop. Doesn't clearly state WHY it doesn't like them.

    Should be possible to extract the assets and reauthor, if that IS the problem.

    If the deck hasn't ever accepted burned DVD-A's, there's a good chance it just wasn't built to.
    One could still reauthor as a High-quality, Audio-centric DVD-Video (using 2ch LPCM, and/or 5.1 ch DD/DTS).

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  14. Member
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    If anyone happens to come across this thread that was having the same issue I was having I found the solution. I was making the mistake of unzipping the ISO and then burning with Nero by dragging and dropping the contents of the AUDIO_TS folder into the DVD-ISO compiltaion. The correct way to burn is to directly burn the ISO image with ImgBurn. The reason why is because most DVD-Audio players are very finicky as to the order in which the AUDIO_TS contents are stored, explaining why one disc would play on one machine and not the other.
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  15. Member
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    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    DVD-Audio needs TWO directories (or "folders" if you prefer the Windows term):
    AUDIO_TS (this is where your files go)
    VIDEO_TS (this is where DVD compatibility menus go)

    If you did not get any VIDEO_TS files then I am not sure that you can burn a disc that your player will ever recognize.

    It's not possible for consumers to burn SACD discs. Having said that, if you'd like to prove me wrong and educate me out of my ignorance on just how this is possible, I welcome that.
    If anyone reads this, to avoid any confusion, this is all incorrect. The AUDIO_TS folder is unnecessary when burning a DVD as that folder is ignored anyway just as the VIDEO_TS folder is unnecessary when burning a DVD-Audio disc as that folder is also ignored.

    As far as burning SACD discs, what jman said is also incorrect. It is possible (I have many of them).
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  16. vanished El Heggunte's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smackyourfupa View Post
    If anyone happens to come across this thread that was having the same issue I was having I found the solution. I was making the mistake of unzipping the ISO and then burning with Nero by dragging and dropping the contents of the AUDIO_TS folder into the DVD-ISO compiltaion. The correct way to burn is to directly burn the ISO image with ImgBurn. The reason why is because most DVD-Audio players are very finicky as to the order in which the AUDIO_TS contents are stored, explaining why one disc would play on one machine and not the other.
    That's correct. The first file to be recorded on a DVD is AUDIO_PP.IFO, followed by AUDIO_TS.IFO "and the remainder".

    http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net/spec/udf.shtml

    BTW, the page above is very-outdated patched builds of mkisofs already include the -dvd-audio option.
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  17. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smackyourfupa View Post
    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    DVD-Audio needs TWO directories (or "folders" if you prefer the Windows term):
    AUDIO_TS (this is where your files go)
    VIDEO_TS (this is where DVD compatibility menus go)

    If you did not get any VIDEO_TS files then I am not sure that you can burn a disc that your player will ever recognize.

    It's not possible for consumers to burn SACD discs. Having said that, if you'd like to prove me wrong and educate me out of my ignorance on just how this is possible, I welcome that.
    If anyone reads this, to avoid any confusion, this is all incorrect. The AUDIO_TS folder is unnecessary when burning a DVD as that folder is ignored anyway just as the VIDEO_TS folder is unnecessary when burning a DVD-Audio disc as that folder is also ignored.

    As far as burning SACD discs, what jman said is also incorrect. It is possible (I have many of them).
    Your statement that jman98 was incorrect is also incorrect.

    DVD-Video discs REQUIRE the VIDEO_TS folder, and consider as optional or superfluous the AUDIO_TS, JACKET_P, ROM, or any other folders.

    DVD-Audio discs REQUIRE the AUDIO_TS folder, but also optionally REQUIRE the VIDEO_TS folder DEPENDING UPON THE INTENDED PLAYER. This is because there are 3 flavors of players: "Audio-Only Players" or AOPs, and "Video-capable Players" or VCAPs. They use a different track-reading structure (the AOPs are much more like CD players, whereas the VCAPs are basically like DVD-Video players). Then there are universal players, which are DVD-Video capable and DVD-Audio (VCAP) capable.
    So, if you have a disc that has been authored to include elements in the VIDEO_TS folder, but you REMOVE the VIDEO_TS folder from the burned copy, you not only forfeit the use of the DVD-Video material, but if the AUDIO_TS navigation structure was designed to link to elements in the VIDEO_TS folder, you have just BROKEN that link and rendered the AUDIO_TS buggy at best and inoperable at worst.

    ...IN FACT, it could very well be that when you have burned DVD-Audio discs in the past that part of the reason they aren't playing on your settop player could be that they're expecting DVD-Video assets which are no longer there!
    (your settop is likely a VCAP, whereas your car player is likely an AOP)

    I'm not making this up, it comes direct from DVD-Demystified, a highly authoritative reference tome.

    ******************************

    Also, as noted by El Heggunte, DVD-Audio discs REQUIRE a certain order to the burning of the files & folder structure, as certain items MUST be at the beginning of the disc (in order for AOPs to work correctly). I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that Nero didn't burn them correctly. I would expect ImgBurn to do the right thing, however. That programmer knows his stuff!

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  18. Member
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Originally Posted by smackyourfupa View Post
    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    DVD-Audio needs TWO directories (or "folders" if you prefer the Windows term):
    AUDIO_TS (this is where your files go)
    VIDEO_TS (this is where DVD compatibility menus go)

    If you did not get any VIDEO_TS files then I am not sure that you can burn a disc that your player will ever recognize.

    It's not possible for consumers to burn SACD discs. Having said that, if you'd like to prove me wrong and educate me out of my ignorance on just how this is possible, I welcome that.
    If anyone reads this, to avoid any confusion, this is all incorrect. The AUDIO_TS folder is unnecessary when burning a DVD as that folder is ignored anyway just as the VIDEO_TS folder is unnecessary when burning a DVD-Audio disc as that folder is also ignored.

    As far as burning SACD discs, what jman said is also incorrect. It is possible (I have many of them).
    Your statement that jman98 was incorrect is also incorrect.

    DVD-Video discs REQUIRE the VIDEO_TS folder, and consider as optional or superfluous the AUDIO_TS, JACKET_P, ROM, or any other folders.

    DVD-Audio discs REQUIRE the AUDIO_TS folder, but also optionally REQUIRE the VIDEO_TS folder DEPENDING UPON THE INTENDED PLAYER. This is because there are 3 flavors of players: "Audio-Only Players" or AOPs, and "Video-capable Players" or VCAPs. They use a different track-reading structure (the AOPs are much more like CD players, whereas the VCAPs are basically like DVD-Video players). Then there are universal players, which are DVD-Video capable and DVD-Audio (VCAP) capable.
    So, if you have a disc that has been authored to include elements in the VIDEO_TS folder, but you REMOVE the VIDEO_TS folder from the burned copy, you not only forfeit the use of the DVD-Video material, but if the AUDIO_TS navigation structure was designed to link to elements in the VIDEO_TS folder, you have just BROKEN that link and rendered the AUDIO_TS buggy at best and inoperable at worst.

    ...IN FACT, it could very well be that when you have burned DVD-Audio discs in the past that part of the reason they aren't playing on your settop player could be that they're expecting DVD-Video assets which are no longer there!
    (your settop is likely a VCAP, whereas your car player is likely an AOP)

    I'm not making this up, it comes direct from DVD-Demystified, a highly authoritative reference tome.

    ******************************

    Also, as noted by El Heggunte, DVD-Audio discs REQUIRE a certain order to the burning of the files & folder structure, as certain items MUST be at the beginning of the disc (in order for AOPs to work correctly). I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that Nero didn't burn them correctly. I would expect ImgBurn to do the right thing, however. That programmer knows his stuff!

    Scott
    Well, all of my DVD Audio discs were only burned with the AUDIO_TS folder and they all play fine (since I have been using IMGBurn. Nero does not let you rearrange files to burn the discs properly as it automatically sorts alphabetically.
    As far as the reason they were not playing on my settop player, I already posted the reason.
    I've never heard of VCAP or AOP before, thanks for bringing that up.
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  19. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Well, maybe you also just lucked out in your choices of source material. Regardless, I strongly DO NOT RECOMMEND you remove/avoid including the VIDEO_TS folder, even if it is empty.
    Similarly, you may have lucked out WRT the file burning arrangement.

    DVD-Audio spec was created a few years after the DVD-Video spec, and DVD-Audio players assume the existence of DVD-Video material and Universal material, so they specifically needed a way to TAKE OVER and give preference to DVD-Audio material when it exists on the disc. Their method was to have it be FIRST. Remember, that many players of that era are DUMB compared to a full-blown PC, and so they do NOT work by looking at file systems and folders, etc. They work with SECTORS and hard pointers, and those often need to be in specific places in order to be seen correctly.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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