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  1. Member DB83's Avatar
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    You may have read my other thread today about the problems I have been getting with an upgrade to my system.

    To cut a long story short, one of the issues was the PC freezing. I put that down to a badly installed memory module - was upgrading from 2 gig to 6 gig. When I removed one of the new 2 gig modules, the freezing appeared to stop. Well I thought it had.

    I have been running this PC under XP for the last 3 hours and it has frozen at least four times. The longest it has worked is 25 minutes. The shortest is about 15.

    I have now removed the other 2 gig since the last freeze some 10 minutes ago.

    Rather late in the day, I found the specs of the original memory which is Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 mhz PC2-6400 CAS4. But I knew I was running this memory at CAS5 timings. Maybe not ideal but I can not recall a single freeze with the 2 gig installed.

    The new 4 gig memory was also by Corsair and is described as 'Value Select'. I am pretty sure my supplier describes it as CAS5 and it is with that understanding I bought it expecting it to work just fine. When I first installed all the memory, I read a system report that all the memory was running at 5-5-5-15

    For the life of me I fail to see why these two memory modules should not co-exist with the other two. Can anyone enlighten me here.

    My supplier does not seem tp stock these CAS4 sticks anymore. There are some, I think, on flea-bay but these, invariably will be used. More than that one seller described them as 2.1 v whereas I think mine operate at 1.8 v

    Now my 64K question is XP 32 bit known to fall over if 4 gig(or more) memory is installed ? I really did think you could install more but it would not be used beyong the 3.4 gig limit. And this evening I only had 4 gig installed. Of course it is quite possible I screwed up by running (or trying to run) the system with 3 sticks. But I equally thought there were issues with the 4 sticks.

    It has not been a good day today. Tomorrow some more experimentation with just the two new sticks in the syatem
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    The mixing of different types of RAM is most likely causing your problem. Should stick with ones that all run the same timings voltage and speed. Try running the system with only the old memory installed. If it doesn't freeze, then remove those and install the new ram. If it still doesn't freeze, then it's the combination of the two different RAM types. I'd say lose the old ram modules, and grab another stick or two of the new type.

    A_L
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  3. XP will work with more than 4 GB, but it will not use the extra memory. Pull your original two one-gig modules and plug in the new two-gig modules. If you still have problems, check the timings, they may be too fast.
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  4. More memory on the bus may require additional wait states because of capacitive loading. Did you try running just the two 2 GB sticks? 32 bit XP will only use ~3GB anyway.
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  5. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    For the life of me I fail to see why these two memory modules should not co-exist with the other two. Can anyone enlighten me here.

    My supplier does not seem tp stock these CAS4 sticks anymore. There are some, I think, on flea-bay but these, invariably will be used. More than that one seller described them as 2.1 v whereas I think mine operate at 1.8 v
    FYI, the 2.1V rating is for running the RAM at CAS4, your M/B's memory bus follows the DDR2 standard rating of 1.8V, the BIOS would have to have voltage overclocking options to get 2.1V. You can use CPU-Z to read the SPD specs for each DIMM, generate a report to see all the interesting stuff.

    I checked your board's memory compatibility list and didn't see your Corsair memory listed which is no surprise (first line in the list) and on page 16 of the manual they recommend using all the same DIMM's or the BIOS will enable Flex Memory Mode... From experience I can tell you that it's not unusual to have compatibility issues between DIMM's and chipsets. There's no need to spend money on overclocking memory If you aren't planning on overclocking; value line memory (Kingston's or Corsair's) is just fine.

    The support site lists a few BIOS versions with enhanced memory compatibility; update your BIOS before anymore fiddling, load Optimized Default BIOS settings and only start tweaking the settings after you have it running right.

    I just remembered a situation where I wasn't able to get memory working very much like you. The problem was caused by the SPD table (I used CPU-Z) of the 2 different types of DIMM I had. One pair was overclocking memory and the other was value line. I knew the faster memory ought to be able to run with the same specs as the slower one even though it wasn't listed in the SPD. The solution was to install the value line memory in the DIMM 1-3 slots, boot into the BIOS and set it for manual memory timing (page 42 of your manual), save and power down, then install the faster memory in the DIMM 2-4 slots; that PC can't use automatic memory settings.
    Last edited by nic2k4; 27th Jan 2014 at 22:28.
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  6. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input guys. What you say makes a lot of sense. The brain was not functioning correctly yesterday.

    I still have a bit of a 'hangover' after yesterday's issues so will probably leave the memory for a better day
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  7. Member DB83's Avatar
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    For now, just a small part of the cpu-z report. Original memory only:

    DIMM # 2
    SMBus address 0x52
    Memory type DDR2
    Module format Regular UDIMM
    Manufacturer (ID) Corsair (7F7F9E0000000000)
    Size 1024 MBytes
    Max bandwidth PC2-6400 (400 MHz)
    Part number CM2X1024-6400C4DHX
    Number of banks 1
    Data width 64 bits
    Correction None
    Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
    EPP yes (1 profiles)
    XMP no
    AMP no
    JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
    JEDEC #1 4.0-4-4-13-15 @ 270 MHz
    JEDEC #2 5.0-5-5-18-22 @ 400 MHz
    EPP timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC-CR @ frequency (voltage)
    EPP profile #1 (full) 4.0-4-4-12-22-2T @ 400 MHz (2.100 Volts)
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  8. Not a good start when the table doesn't include an entry for 333MHz.
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  9. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nic2k4 View Post
    Not a good start when the table doesn't include an entry for 333MHz.
    Why ? But wouldn't use use 667 mhz ram in a mb for that ? This ram has worked fine for over 4 years and all I now need is to get it talking to this CL5 ram that I bought.

    In fact, all the DDR2 ram I see is CL5 beit PC-6400 or PC-5300
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  10. Some RAM jsut won't work together.

    You usually need to pair the first two slots, which will usually set the timing for the next two. Some boards won't let you pair the second set unless the first set is paired. So, test with just the two new sticks in the first pair of slots, make sure that works.

    Then, add the older stick into the Second slot pair. Test again.

    I generally don't screw around with the CAS timings. Make sure they detect correctly and then leave it at that. Too many screwy things can happen. If you need faster timings, get faster RAM.
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  11. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Why ? But wouldn't use use 667 mhz ram in a mb for that ? This ram has worked fine for over 4 years and all I now need is to get it talking to this CL5 ram that I bought.

    In fact, all the DDR2 ram I see is CL5 beit PC-6400 or PC-5300
    That's what I was saying in the other post, when the system reads the SPD and can't find a value what does it use and how is that going to jive with the other DIMM's? I don't know, but I don't like to see that. What results do you get with the other DIMM's?

    Unless you have power management set for maximum power, the CPU clock doesn't often run at 400MHz (check it out with CPU-Z).
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  12. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Like I said earlier, I am leaving that for another day. But when the two new sticks, amd only those two sticks, are installed I will report back on the timings.

    I will also report back on the CPU clock.

    You will have gathered that I am no pc-guru. If it works then fine. If it does not I try to find out why having had some bad experiences from 'pros' who probably knew less than I do.
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  13. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Well according to cpu-z, the bus speed is 333 mhz, fsb 1,333 mhz. All I do know is that the cl4 memory was the one that was suggested by my suppliers memory finder and unless I read it wrong also appears on the supported memory list.
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  14. You're right about the memory list; the FSB depends on the CPU. Those DIMM's not having an entry for 333MHz means the BIOS will use some sort of default settings and might even tweak them over time (some Asus boards do that).

    When you swap over to the pair of 2GB, go in the BIOS and set the memory to manual settings, don't change anything and save. Once Windows is up run CPU-Z and compare the readings between the memory tab and SPD tab, they should match. Shut down and add in the pair of 1GB DIMM's, then power back into Windows and test.
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  15. 32 bit XP can't use more than 4 GB of DRAM so there's no point is using all 6 GB. Actually, there are a few RAM discs that can use PAE to access memory over 4 GB but other than that all your doing is sucking up more power and making your system less stable.
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  16. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    32 bit XP can't use more than 4 GB of DRAM so there's no point is using all 6 GB. Actually, there are a few RAM discs that can use PAE to access memory over 4 GB but other than that all your doing is sucking up more power and making your system less stable.
    The point of the extra ram is for the main Win7/64 boot. XP will be retained as an ancillary for those programs/devices that Win7 do not support (See other topic)
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  17. Member DB83's Avatar
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    @nic2k4

    I am most grateful for your continued interest in this topic. This is my only PC, which I have to use most days, so I do not envisage being able to swap these stcks before Friday morning.

    But I am little more confused now. I had clean forgotten about cpu-z which I had used years ago and was relying on 'Sandra' for the info about my original memory timings. I will swear that it reported 5-5-5-15 but when I just checked - I have altered nothing - it says 4-4-4-12.

    As a prelude to the 'swop' and to give you, or anyone else for that matter, the opportunity to give me a right shalacking I went to the bios just to see what is set and again, with my hand firmly on the good book will state that nothing has been altered since I first built this PC and 'tweaked it' some 6 years ago. What has vanished in the mists of time is whether I purposely made these settings since the bios was reporting 5's and I knew the memory could give me 4's.

    Here goes:

    - DRAM PERFORMANCE CONTROL -
    Performance Enhancer [Turbo] (my alarm bells are already ringing)
    Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P) [Profile2]
    MCH Frequency Latch [Auto]
    System Memory Multiplier (SPD) [Auto]
    Memory Frequency (Mhz) 800
    Dram Timinig Selectable (SPD) [Auto] (Am I correct in thing this is the one you want me to set as Manual ?)
    -Standard Timing-
    Cas 4 Auto
    tnCD 4 Auto
    tRP 4 Auto
    tRAS 12 Auto

    Now if I read this right, apart from the 'Turbo', this memory is running somewhat faster than the new memory unless these timings automatically change when the new sticks go in. Will be most interested in that result.
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  18. The memory tab in CPU-Z shows the timings in use by the system, the SPD tab shows the values in the SPD chip on the DIMM, you might be remembering things from different tabs.

    If you enable X.M.P. the BIOS will look for a matching entry in SPD and use those settings, your memory doesn't have an X.M.P. entry, but it has an EPP one and the values you list match it. They don't match the slower JEDEC 270MHz entry, if anything I would expect the BIOS to use that one for 333MHz, so I have to conclude that the BIOS looks for either an XMP or EPP entry with Extreme Memory Profile enabled.

    The value line memory is not going to be able to keep up with that, not to mention that it's not designed to handle 2.1V! This may well be the only setting you need to disable to get all the memory to work together.

    If not, you would have to disable Extreme Memory Profile, set Dram Timing Selectable to manual and disable C.I.A.2. If you hit F7 while on that page it will reset everything to their default values, then you only have to set Dram Timing Selectable to manual.

    This will turn on a number of memory timing settings. If you do it with only the value line memory installed, take note of all the values so you can compare when you add in the old DIMM's; you may have to change each one from auto to what you recorded. Don't bother with the settings for Channel A/B, they should stay on auto.

    The memory is set to run at 800MHz (400), you getting 333 from CPU-Z is probably due to power management, set it to maximum performance if you want to see 400 in CPU-Z (BTW, not a good thing to do for daily use).
    Last edited by nic2k4; 30th Jan 2014 at 21:32.
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  19. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Once again, many thanks.

    Will report back, hopefully, sometime tomorrow.
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  20. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Friday morning (or Thursday night whichever way you care to look at it)

    So I thought I could sleep easy or have nightmares whichever way the ram installation went.

    Followed the above instructions. So

    1. I took out the original 2*1 gig sticks and replaced them in slots 1 + 3 with the new 2 *2 gig sticks
    2. Entered the bios. Hit F7 on the memory page to reset everything and then set the memory timings to manual.
    3. Saved and rebooted the PC

    Now the fun starts.

    I had a boot failure warning due to 'Over-Clocking' must assume that was due to the previous sticks.

    4. The PC now booted but I no longer have the boot-menu (see the other topic about my SSD issues) and it went straight into XP. The SSD is there so that is something else I must get back to. But for now back to the memory.
    5. Ran cpu-z and created a report (I had noted the memory timings in the bios and they did now say 5-5-5-18
    6. Powered down and installed the original 2*1 gig sticks in slots 2 and 4
    7. Booted back up. No boot failure warning this time and still no boot-menu.
    8. Ran cpu-z again. The memort tab says 5-5-5-18-52-2T

    I copy below the report about the 4 sticks.

    DIMM # 1
    SMBus address 0x50
    Memory type DDR2
    Module format Regular UDIMM
    Manufacturer (ID) Corsair (7F7F9E0000000000)
    Size 2048 MBytes
    Max bandwidth PC2-6400 (400 MHz)
    Part number VS2GB800D2
    Number of banks 2
    Data width 64 bits
    Correction None
    Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
    EPP no
    XMP no
    AMP no
    JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
    JEDEC #1 4.0-4-4-13-15 @ 270 MHz
    JEDEC #2 5.0-5-5-18-22 @ 400 MHz

    DIMM # 2
    SMBus address 0x51
    Memory type DDR2
    Module format Regular UDIMM
    Manufacturer (ID) Corsair (7F7F9E0000000000)
    Size 1024 MBytes
    Max bandwidth PC2-6400 (400 MHz)
    Part number CM2X1024-6400C4DHX
    Number of banks 1
    Data width 64 bits
    Correction None
    Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
    EPP yes (1 profiles)
    XMP no
    AMP no
    JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
    JEDEC #1 4.0-4-4-13-15 @ 270 MHz
    JEDEC #2 5.0-5-5-18-22 @ 400 MHz
    EPP timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC-CR @ frequency (voltage)
    EPP profile #1 (full) 4.0-4-4-12-22-2T @ 400 MHz (2.100 Volts)

    DIMM # 3
    SMBus address 0x52
    Memory type DDR2
    Module format Regular UDIMM
    Manufacturer (ID) Corsair (7F7F9E0000000000)
    Size 2048 MBytes
    Max bandwidth PC2-6400 (400 MHz)
    Part number VS2GB800D2
    Number of banks 2
    Data width 64 bits
    Correction None
    Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
    EPP no
    XMP no
    AMP no
    JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
    JEDEC #1 4.0-4-4-13-15 @ 270 MHz
    JEDEC #2 5.0-5-5-18-22 @ 400 MHz

    DIMM # 4
    SMBus address 0x53
    Memory type DDR2
    Module format Regular UDIMM
    Manufacturer (ID) Corsair (7F7F9E0000000000)
    Size 1024 MBytes
    Max bandwidth PC2-6400 (400 MHz)
    Part number CM2X1024-6400C4DHX
    Number of banks 1
    Data width 64 bits
    Correction None
    Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
    EPP yes (1 profiles)
    XMP no
    AMP no
    JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
    JEDEC #1 4.0-4-4-13-15 @ 270 MHz
    JEDEC #2 5.0-5-5-18-22 @ 400 MHz
    EPP timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC-CR @ frequency (voltage)
    EPP profile #1 (full) 4.0-4-4-12-22-2T @ 400 MHz (2.100 Volts)


    Tempting fate, the PC has been back on approx 20 minutes with no issues. Since I need my beauty sleep, I will be powering down shortly.
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  21. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I may be winning this one

    Good night John Boy !!!!
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  22. It looks like the SPD table is the same for all the DIMM's, I think it would be safe to change Dram Timing Selectable back to auto. It might even be better, that tRC of 52 in CPU-Z is just horrendous, it should be 22 or a little more.

    As for the booting straight to XP, I would check the other setting pages in the BIOS, AHCI is probably not enabled anymore.
    Last edited by nic2k4; 30th Jan 2014 at 22:00.
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  23. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Captain has now set the 'doors to auto'. Time will tell

    I reset the HDD boot-order priority which rather mixed results. Read about this in the other place.
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  24. First, it is a mistake to try to diagnose TWO flakiness issues at the same time. Eliminate the SSD until the memory issue is solved, or the other way around, but IMO the memory is primary.

    Focus in on that boot failure warning due to overclocking. Did the message specifically mention overclocking? The BIOS settings were supposed to be on default. Get back in there and make certain there are NO overclocking settings, of any kind, on any page. You MUST return to the KNOWN GOOD. Eliminating any possible overclock is the FIRST THING to do when there is any kind of problem, and most especially with RAM.

    When making BIOS changes, are you powering down or doing a warm re-boot? Power down. There is no data loaded or available when powered down. Some BIOS's require a power down to ensure certain changes are made. There is no downside, and there is added certainty. Certainty is what you are missing.

    Get the box running stable with the RAM, MAKE SURE, and then and only then re-connect the SSD and get it working. If you want to change RAM setup for some reason, great, dis-connect the problem SSD and get the box running stable without it, then re-connect.

    It is easy to get into a tail-chasing situation. The flaky RAM could cause the SSD to malfunction, OR a malfunctioning SSD could be overly sensitive to the RAM timings and cause lockup or other errors. It could easily be that BOTH assemblies are perfectly fine, but for some reason won't work together in the same box.

    ISOLATE and IDENTIFY. If you do not isolate a component then you cannot identify the problem.
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  25. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Wise words.

    The message definately mentioned 'OC' which certainly surprised me somewhat since I do not regard running ram at its optimum setting as 'OC' but of course the lower rating ram was probably coughing as it tried to use those settings before I adjusted them.

    They were warm reboots which I thought ok since that is what the bios was doing.

    Anyway. I believe the ram issue is now solved as the PC has been on several hours without a single hiccup.

    I also think the SSD issue is solved. Maybe that lack of the boot menu was caused by the bios reset. But Win7 repair fixed that.
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  26. Good for you. What do you get on the memory tab in CPU-Z?
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  27. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nic2k4 View Post
    Good for you. What do you get on the memory tab in CPU-Z?
    It is still showing 5-5-5-18-52-2T
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  28. You could try to change DRAM performance enhance to extreme. If that doesn't help you could try to switch the RAM around.
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  29. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I might try the first suggestion.

    As for swapping the ram around, thanks for the suggestion but methinks I will pass on that. The system is stable now. Not a single freeze up for over week (the last one was when the ram was previously swapped). I appreciate that the settings are different now but I'll be truly miffed if I swapped them and found I had to swap them again.

    On top of that, the whole system appears to me to be a whole lot faster. Programs load quickly. The Win7 windows swap quickly. In all, I am a happy bunny.
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  30. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    On top of that, the whole system appears to me to be a whole lot faster. Programs load quickly. The Win7 windows swap quickly. In all, I am a happy bunny.
    That's probably the result of the extra memory.
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