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  1. Member
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    Hi there! I see MKV files all of the time, ripped from Blu-Ray discs, but the framerate is such that the motion doesn't come out smooth. It looks slightly blurred. Same with regular DVD rips. I just tried ripping a DVD (I will have my Blu-Ray burner in a few days) with "MakeMKV Beta", and I found no adjustment for framerate. The result was the same as I have seen thus far - lousy motion. I think the trick is to rip at double the framerate, but I can't find a program that will do that for MKV files. Anyone know of a program with such settings?

    Thanks!
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    Hollywood movies released on NTSC DVD have a frame rate of 23.976, with pulldown applied to produce 29.97 fps.

    If you are seeing blurring, perhaps you are viewing the 29.97 frame rate, where 2 out of every five are blurry due to interlacing?
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    Due to interlacing, when it's natively (for most films) progressive? What does that even have to do with pulldown?

    To OP:

    MakeMKV doesn't do any re-encoding, simply changes containers. If your seeing blurring/macroblocking, then its probably a lack of bitrate when the move is re-encoded. Generally, if it's simply ripped from disk with no re-encoding it should look just fine.

    It could also be your playback software. What are you using, assuming this in on a PC? If not, what are you using for a player?
    Have a good one,

    neomaine

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    QUOTE=neomaine "Due to interlacing, when it's natively (for most films) progressive? What does that even have to do with pulldown? "


    I was just thinking out loud, however, the point may be valid if the DVD source is not handled properly.
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  5. Member
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    I use any of these for viewing:

    VLC Player

    UPlayer

    WMPlayer

    When I recode a video from an AVI to say - a WMV file, it won't look good unless I encode it at double the framerate. Only then will it have that same natural motion. If MakeMKV doesn't recode the video, why does it come out looking different?

    Thanks again.
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    Post a sample of your output, they may help the diagnosis.
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    A sample of MKV output? Or a sample of WMV, in normal then double framerate?

    Here's two WMV clips, with identical settings, except framerate:

    http://xtremed63.com/Video/samples/29.97.wmv

    http://xtremed63.com/Video/samples/59.94.wmv

    If you watch even a little carefully, you'll see the blur in the first (29.97 fps) clip, and fluidity and no blur in the second clip (59.94 fps).
    Last edited by xtremeD63; 9th Jan 2014 at 02:01.
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  8. Originally Posted by xtremeD63 View Post
    A sample of MKV output? Or a sample of WMV, in normal then double framerate?
    Neither. A VOB or M2V sample from your DVD, 10 seconds with steady motion. OK, maybe the same sample as extracted by MakeMKV also.

    Originally Posted by neomaine View Post
    Due to interlacing, when it's natively (for most films) progressive? What does that even have to do with pulldown?
    Quite a lot since most films on DVD have either hard or soft pulldown.
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    I edited my post a minute ago to show exactly the difference I was talking about.
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    To be honest, both of them look pretty poor.
    Can you post the same shot from the ource?
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    They look poor, yes - as far as the picture quality goes. That's not what I'm referring to, though. I'm referring to the motion. If you look at the number 12 on the blue car as it goes past the screen in the 29.97 fps clip, you'll see a blur in the numbers. You won't see the blur in the 59.94 fps clip.

    As far as posting the shot from the source - the source is a DVD... how do I do that?
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    You can cut out a sample from the mkv with solveigmm avi trimmer (it supports mkvs...not sure if mkv with mpeg2 though).
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    Have you looked at the clips yet that I posted? Am I the only one who can see the difference in motion quality? This is baffling... I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone or something, where I'm the only one who sees this.
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    FYI: unless you know very-well what you're doing,
    converting anything to "WMV" normally means A LOT OF dropped frames + duplicated frames.
    And increasing the framerate because of Micro$oft's narrow-mindedness is not a good idea either

    And yes, even your problematic MKVs must have been created "improperly".
    Perhaps you still don't know the difference between remuxing and reencoding
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    Indeed - I don't know the difference between the two terms.

    Does that mean no one else can see the obvious difference in those two clips I posted? WMV or otherwise, they illustrate my point perfectly. I can't seem to get an answer on the matter. If the answer is 'no', okay then. If it's yes - great. But no answers at all is confusing.

    I simply cannot be the only one who sees it.
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  16. With those WMV samples your source was 30i and the WMV files converted (poorly) to 30p and 60p. So there's an obvious difference in the smoothness of motion. But movies are shot at 24p. They should be converted to 24p. Converting to 30p will make them jerky (5 little jerks every second). Converting to 60p will generally have no benefit over 24p (depending on your playback device).

    See 24v30v60.avi in this post:
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/307004-Best-framerate-conversion-%28eg-23-97-to-30-...=1#post1888926
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    I wonder why the clips are assumed to be converted 'poorly'... no one has seen the original DVD video. Here's the background on it: Original recorded format was DVCam - Firewire from a Playstation 2 into the DVCam's input. From there - recorded onto an S-VHS tape. Then through a capture card, onto my PC in NTSC DV format. THEN to the DVD after editing in DV format, THEN last night - to WMV format for comparison. That DVD of the race is only medium I have of it. The 59.94 fps clip looks almost identical to the DVD.
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    Copy the DVD to the hard drive it it's not there already. Open the main vob set with DGindex,
    use the [ and ] controls to select the bit you want,
    File/save project and demux video.

    Put the m2v file in this thread.
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  19. Originally Posted by xtremeD63 View Post
    I wonder why the clips are assumed to be converted 'poorly'... no one has seen the original DVD video.
    Whether the poor conversion happened on your conversion to WMV or earlier, you've been told why some videos are smoother than others. 24p, 25p, 30p are inherently jerky. 50p and 60p are much smoother.
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    Okay, great! That's settled. So now, I guess it's back to my original inquiry: is there a program that will create MKV files at double the framerate so they look like the original disc? MakeMKV certainly has no such setting to achieve that smoothness. Maybe I'll have to find a good program that will do this, but in MP4 format. I don't know.
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  21. MakeMKV simply muxes the source videos streams into an MKV container. If you see differences in playback there's a problem with your player, not the MKV file.
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    Interesting. I use both uPlayer and VLC Player to view MKV files. Same results. I have a Radeon HD 6850 graphics card, so I doubt the problem lies there. The search continues...

    Thanks, guys.
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  23. Set VLC to Yadif 2x or bob. Make sure it's deinterlacing while you play.

    Since you aren't posting the samples people have been asking for it's difficult to help you further.
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  24. I disable all software de-interlacing myself and let the TV do it (I assume the TV's doing it and not the video card?). If you're using a PC monitor rather than a TV that mightn't be an option. For some reason enabling de-interlacing in LAV filters (software or hardware) either doesn't work well or there's more frames dropped than not.

    Thinking about it..... video is still de-interlaced when viewing it using my CRT PC monitor, and de-interlacing is disabled in MPC-HC, so I guess my video card must be de-interlacing.

    Once the video is muxed as an MKV, if it's interlaced, maybe the interlaced flag isn't being passed on so it's not being de-interlaced. Or maybe it's being de-interlaced to 25/30fps instead of 50/60fps, which would be a software/hardware issue.
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