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  1. Member
    Join Date: Jan 2014
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    Hi, I'm fairly new to video (& I'm trying to make a home movie).

    I have 2 sets of clips that i want to fit into my movie (a Skydrive link for 2 small samples is at the end of this post).

    I'm trying to find out if my video clips are interlaced or progressive before setting project settings in Premiere Elements.

    I have 2 versions of MediaInfo on 2 Pc's and they both say the opposite to each other. Version 0.7.47 says they are progressive clips, and the latest version of MediaInfo 0.7.65 says interlaced.

    Could somebody be kind enough to offer some advice?

    Here's the link: https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=F587D73C02F4DBBB!2687&authkey=!APoUWb6pYJdVoyQ&i...=folder%2c.AVI

    Many thanks
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  2. Both clips are progressive.
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  3. Member
    Join Date: Mar 2008
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    However, they are 30 frames per second, with a duplicate every 6 frames. How did that happen?
    Some strange setting during capture?

    Was this captured from tape?
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  4. Looks like a digital camera to me.
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  5. Member
    Join Date: Jan 2014
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    Hi, and thanks for replies.
    No, not tape. They were all recorded on an old digital SD camcorder by Hitachi, onto memory card. They differ because I changed the settings in cam.
    Ps. It would be so good if you could tell me how you know they are progressive (or not), as I'd love to make sense of it myself too.
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  6. Member
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    If you look at it frame by frame (in Virtualdub, for example) you don't see any of the "combing" pattern you
    see with interlaced material. Regular interlaced footage is really two images (fields) in one frame
    separated temporally by either 1/60 second (NTSC)
    or 1/50 (PAL) - so anywhere there is movement this pattern can usually be seen, as each field is from a
    different moment in time.

    The odd lines contain one field, while the even lines contain the other.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 09:31.
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  8. Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    If the dupes were removed, your video would not play at the desired frame rate...
    I find it a little hard to believe the desired framerate is one with duplicates every 6 frames. If someone wants 30fps they use a camera that creates 30 unique frames every second, not one where 5 of them are duplicates. Or, if absolutely necessary (like for NTSC DVD), you don't duplicate frames but use a pulldown to insert duplicate fields during playback. The result is much smoother playing.
    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    ...and audio would be out of synch.
    If the dupe frames are removed the framerate goes back to 25fps, the length remains the same, and the audio remains in synch. Just like when you IVTC back from 29.97 to 23.976fps.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 09:31.
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  10. Member
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    Just to complicate things. Different versions of MediaInfo gives different readings for properties inc original height, and scan type too. Older version says progressive and new one says interlaced with original height property too.
    So, is looking at the video frame by frame for combing the best way to tell. How clever
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  11. Member
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    I don't have the original camcorder now and can't remember the name or model, but looking through google images it looked something like this:

    Again, i can't remember the name or model, but i found this info for a possible match:
    HITACHI HSC-S2 ??????
    Specs:
    AVI (Image data: Motion JPEG, audio: ADPCM) Recorded Pixels 720 480 pixels (D1) / 640 480 pixels (VGA) /
    320 240 pixels (QVGA) Frame rate 30 frames /sec Still Recording file formats
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 09:31. Reason: I promise, I don't make typos -- the characters move when no one's watching.
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  13. Member
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    Great advice from clever people. Thank you so much.

    Just to conclude then, i'm assuming the clips are progressive and i'm going to attempt to make a home movie with them in Premiere Elements with a project setting of 640x480 progressive 30fps

    My child when she grows up wont realize it in years to come when she watches the movie that you guys here helped it to be the best it could be
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  14. Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    some sort of "warping" and periodic blurring in the images that doesn't come from the nervous camera movements.
    The warping is from a rolling shutter. The blurring from camera shake. The two together imply a digital optical image stabilizer has been used. Either by the camcorder or in post.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 09:31.
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  16. Member
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    hello mate
    I'm going to make a movie with them in premiere elements. That's why I needed to know if they were progressive or not, so I could set the project settings correctly.
    Strange thing was that 2 different versions of MediaInfo gave opposite results, 1 saying progressive and the other saying interlaced for the same clip.
    Last edited by DJBoshh; 8th Jan 2014 at 07:40.
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  17. Member
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    Your clips are progressive. But there's another issue. One clip is 720x480 with what appears to be square pixels and the other is 640x480, also appearing to have square pixels. (These are untouched originals, correct?)

    If it were me, I would set up a 720x480 square pixel progressive project and allow the thinnish black bars to appear at the sides in the 640 footage. This of course matches no broadcast standards, but will play fine on a computer or a media player. I would do it this way to cause the least damage to the footage by resizing or otherwise messing around.

    Please keep the raw footage someplace safe, because other, better options are sure to turn up in the future.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 09:32. Reason: Mummy mkv attachment replaced by new version in post #49
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 09:32.
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  20. Member
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    Demuxing the file and playing in MPC-HC reveals that all frames are unique. The duplicates appear to be happening on playback.

    Importing the demuxed video and audio into Avid (IgnoreQTRate True) reveals that NONE of the standard frame rates are correct (match audio duration.)

    Name:  BINS.png
Views: 337
Size:  39.3 KB

    Here is a file exported from Premiere Pro (don't have elements) at 720x480 29.97p square pixels, no frame rate adjustments, no color adjustments:
    Attached Files
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 09:32.
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  22. Member
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    Hi guys. I'm on my phone atm, but when I get home to PC I will upload another clip from set 2 just I'm case the file your playing with has been modified without me remembering. I'm 99.5% sure it hasn't been modified though.
    As mentioned I want to make a movie of my child's 1st year with those clips. Oh how I wish I knew then what I know now and had bought a HD cam instead. The clips I have though fall into 2 sets. The first set of 20 clips contain the 640x480 versions, and the 2nd set of about 10 clips contain the 720x480 clips (not sure about the pixel aspect ratios as a bit advanced for me). As mentioned initially I wasn't sure if they were all interlaced or progressive. I was rather hoping to make the movie in Premiere Elements in a 640x480 (progressive) square pixel project (same as the majority of the clips) and hoping Premiere Elements would automatically correct the clips from set 2 to fit in the project, with me scaling all the clips to the same 480 height and trimming the sides off the clips in set 2.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 09:32.
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  24. Member
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    Hi sanlyn, and thanks for the advice.

    I'm 99.5% sure they are original untouched out of the camera video clips. I will check when i get home, but right now i have zero memory of ever doing anything to any of the clips. I will upload another sample from the set just to be sure.

    I'm quite good at post processing photo's (Lightroom, photoshop etc), but just a beginner with video. I have to admit that all this video talk here is a bit beyond my understanding atm, pixel aspect ratios etc, etc, so please forgive my current ignorance, lol. I so want to learn though as its fascinating and must be a great feeling to be able to understand any video clip and correct it as needed.
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  25. Member
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    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    But playback of emilyjersey.mkv in MPC-BE, VLC, and VirtualDub has duplicate frames.
    Yes it does. Given that the playback rates in the original VFR files show 26.12 and 25.29 with 15-30 allowable, and given the shaky camera, 29.97 seemed a reasonable "quick" solution that looked no worse than the original.

    (These numbers come from a .mov wrapped demuxed, header-stripped version of the video.)
    Last edited by smrpix; 8th Jan 2014 at 12:39.
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  26. Member
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    P.s I'm not especially interested in being able to play the finished movie on a DVD or Blu-ray player, but if it does then even better. It's more a case of making a video that can be watched back on a PC, and maybe in years to come re-opened in another application for whatever reason comes along.

    Therefore i was thinking of exporting to AVC at 640x480p (square pixels (god i love square pixels as so much easier to understand for a photographer, lol))
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 09:32.
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  28. Member
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    For whatever reason, certain decoders and splitters and various software seem to have problems with these clips

    AVISource() with any decoder returns the correct number of frames, but with duplicates : 1961 frames, about every 6th frame duplicated in the Jersey clip. Choppy motion

    FFVideoSource() drops frames 1733 unique frames, 26.51 FPS in the Jersey clip

    DirectShowSource() + ffdshow directshow for mjpeg seems to work correctly with unique frames , it doesn't clamp YUV levels either (some decoders like picvideo do) , and you can salvage some shadow detail. 1961 unique frames, 30.0003 FPS in the Jersey clip . Smooth motion . I normally hate DSS, but it works in this case

    I don't have elements , but it might be mishandling the clips as well
    Last edited by poisondeathray; 8th Jan 2014 at 13:45.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 09:32.
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  30. Member
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    Looks like I was wrong. The last bit of the clip is just repeated with DSS (you have to check linearly since it's not frame accurate, and everything up to frame 1732 matches with FFMS2). FFVideoSource looks like it's handling it correctly. I believe that "off" framerate is correct for that motion
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