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  1. Member
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    your opinion that Divx is no Longer standard ????
    Hy, after many years of dvd players that were divx(avi) capable, I notice that this is no longer the standard. I see now that its FLV and MP4 video codecs.

    My friend bought a new digital set top box and it would freeze when made to play video that previously worked on any dvd player. I think this sucks, and I just wanted your opinion about this ???

    in 10 or 20 years from now, they may have a new video format again and then FLV and MP4 may become obsolete !
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    MKV container files are also becoming more and more accepted in hardware. H264 is the current standard video codec, but H265/HEVC in mkv is heading towards us in a hurry. It won't take 10 years either.
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  3. Divx and Xvid AVI files still play on my LG Blu-ray player and my Western Digital WDTV. Though both are a few years old. I've switched to h.264 in MKV for most of my encoding. Both of the above devices play those.

    Originally Posted by auto7890 View Post
    in 10 or 20 years from now, they may have a new video format again and then FLV and MP4 may become obsolete !
    Yeah, things were so much better in the old days. 78, 45, and 33 RPM records, 8 track tapes, cassette tapes, Beta and VHS tapes -- every device still plays those. Oh wait...
    Last edited by jagabo; 17th Dec 2013 at 18:18.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 10:11.
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  5. Originally Posted by auto7890 View Post
    your opinion that Divx is no Longer standard ????
    Hy, after many years of dvd players that were divx(avi) capable, I notice that this is no longer the standard. I see now that its FLV and MP4 video codecs.
    FLV and MP4 aren't codecs. They're containers which can hold various types of video and audio. The same applies to MKV and AVI etc.

    Originally Posted by auto7890 View Post
    My friend bought a new digital set top box and it would freeze when made to play video that previously worked on any dvd player. I think this sucks, and I just wanted your opinion about this ???
    Sounds like he should have bought something else.
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  6. He might be referring to some hardware players having the Divx logo on them officially supporting divx encoded files.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 10:11.
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    I believe he is talking about commonly used video files/formats. Xvid or divx avi was very popular a few years back, enough so that the hardware manufacturers started incorporating support for them. Attention has shifted to mp4 and mkv container formats using H264 for now, and these are also supported in many types of hardware as a matter of course. This is particularly true of portables.

    But I haven't seen any media players, or blu ray/dvd players that support mp4 and not xvid avi as well. It sounds like his friend was either unlucky or didn't do enough research on accepted formats.

    And a new form of video is nearly upon us with H265.

    Nothing stands still for long.
    Last edited by Kerry56; 17th Dec 2013 at 23:37.
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  9. Member
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    Originally Posted by auto7890 View Post
    your opinion that Divx is no Longer standard ????
    Hy, after many years of dvd players that were divx(avi) capable, I notice that this is no longer the standard. I see now that its FLV and MP4 video codecs.

    My friend bought a new digital set top box and it would freeze when made to play video that previously worked on any dvd player. I think this sucks, and I just wanted your opinion about this ???

    in 10 or 20 years from now, they may have a new video format again and then FLV and MP4 may become obsolete !
    You are correct. I don't know if this is true in some other parts of the world where consumer demand for DivX is stronger, especially in counties where DivX was more successful as a commercial distribution format, but DivX certified DVD players and Blu-Ray players are harder to find in N. America now.

    Manufacturers are looking to cut costs by not paying for DivX licensing, and since consumer demand for DivX is weaker than it used to be, DivX playback has been eliminated. However, as already noted, most Blu-Ray players currently sold in N. America play will XVid in an AVI container, even if they won't play DivX in an AVI or DIVX container.

    I never really used DivX, so I don't miss it.
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  10. In most cases, all you have to do to change a .divx container to a .avi container is rename the file with .avi as the extension (you won't be able to access the divx extensions like menus and chapter stops). If your MPEG 2 Part 4 capable player won't play the DX50 fourcc just change it to XVID.
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  11. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Manufacturers are looking to cut costs by not paying for DivX licensing, and since consumer demand for DivX is weaker than it used to be, DivX playback has been eliminated. However, as already noted, most Blu-Ray players currently sold in N. America play will XVid in an AVI container, even if they won't play DivX in an AVI or DIVX container.
    They're both MPEG-4 Part 2 encoders. Divx 4/5 and Xvid were originally the same encoder.
    If a player can player Xvid encoded video in an AVI container, it should play DivX encoded video too (assuming compliant encoder settings are used each time).
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    Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Manufacturers are looking to cut costs by not paying for DivX licensing, and since consumer demand for DivX is weaker than it used to be, DivX playback has been eliminated. However, as already noted, most Blu-Ray players currently sold in N. America play will XVid in an AVI container, even if they won't play DivX in an AVI or DIVX container.
    They're both MPEG-4 Part 2 encoders. Divx 4/5 and Xvid were originally the same encoder.
    If a player can player Xvid encoded video in an AVI container, it should play DivX encoded video too (assuming compliant encoder settings are used each time).
    DivX is owned by Rovi, and to build a machine for N. America that plays files with DivX's FourCC identifier, the manufacturer must purchase a license to avoid lawsuits. (The same thing is is true for MPEG-2 content BTW.) Changing the FourCC ID to XVID and changing the DIVX container or file extension to something else gets around this problem, but the problem itself remains. Manufacturers don't want to pay Rovi to use the DivX name.
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  13. I find it hard to believe most mpeg4 part 2 DVD players would refuse to play mpeg4 part2 encoded video because the FourCC identifier used in the AVI.... a container developed by Microsoft.... happens to be Divx. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just mpeg4 part 2 video. Divx don't own the method for compressing the video, and I can't imagine they'd have any right to stop anyone from making a player which decodes it.

    If anything I kind of remember it was often the other way around. DX50 would be used for Xvid encoded video for Divx players which ignored the Xvid FourCC. I'm fairly sure AutoGK used DX50, at least when the hardware compatibility option was selected. In fact I just checked MeGUI's Xvid encoder setup and DX50 still seems to be the default FourCC when using the Home Theatre profile.
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    Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    I find it hard to believe most mpeg4 part 2 DVD players would refuse to play mpeg4 part2 encoded video because the FourCC identifier used in the AVI.... a container developed by Microsoft.... happens to be Divx. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just mpeg4 part 2 video. Divx don't own the method for compressing the video, and I can't imagine they'd have any right to stop anyone from making a player which decodes it.

    If anything I kind of remember it was often the other way around. DX50 would be used for Xvid encoded video for Divx players which ignored the Xvid FourCC. I'm fairly sure AutoGK used DX50, at least when the hardware compatibility option was selected. In fact I just checked MeGUI's Xvid encoder setup and DX50 still seems to be the default FourCC when using the Home Theatre profile.
    According to one of this forum's members at least one of last year's crop of LG players sold in the US doesn't play DivX files but does play XVid. He tested an LG player (BP220) to to see the list was accurate with respect to DivX and XVid. When identified as DX50, his test file was rejected by the player, but if he simply changed the FourCC to XVID, the same file played. Believe it or don't believe it, but that is what he said happened. http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/346406-DVD-Player-Recommendations?p=2166756&viewful...=1#post2166756

    If the supported format list in the manuals are any indication, some of this year's LG Blu_Ray players sold here don't play DivXfiles either, (DivX isn't listed as a supported video format, but XVid is.)
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  15. There's only one DVD player on LG's site which I can see, and Divx and mpeg4 are listed as supported video types. It's a Divx certified player.

    I'd be willing to believe LG's non Divx certified players mightn't play AVIs with a Divx FourCC., but maybe they have some sort of deal with Divx to that effect. Maybe it's their own choice to distinguish their non Divx players from the Divx certified ones. Why sell Divx certified players if their non-certified players will play the same video? Maybe it's even a chipset thing.

    It's a bit hard to know what's really going on even by downloading manuals. The LG site specifically lists Divx as a supported video type for the BP730, but only Xvid is listed in the manual.

    Anyhow.... whatever the reason for the player not playing AVIs with a Divx FourCC, I still think it's quite a leap to conclude it's because manufacturers would need to pay Rovi a fee.
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    I have an LG BP125 and it will play XVID, but NOT DVIX. Even the manual lists XVID but not DVIX. I had to change my DVIX movies to XVID. Fortunatly most were on a 500GB external harddrive so it wasn't much of a problem. The ones burned to disk I can still play on my Phillips non bluray player.
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    Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    There's only one DVD player on LG's site which I can see, and Divx and mpeg4 are listed as supported video types. It's a Divx certified player.

    I'd be willing to believe LG's non Divx certified players mightn't play AVIs with a Divx FourCC., but maybe they have some sort of deal with Divx to that effect. Maybe it's their own choice to distinguish their non Divx players from the Divx certified ones. Why sell Divx certified players if their non-certified players will play the same video? Maybe it's even a chipset thing.

    It's a bit hard to know what's really going on even by downloading manuals. The LG site specifically lists Divx as a supported video type for the BP730, but only Xvid is listed in the manual.

    Anyhow.... whatever the reason for the player not playing AVIs with a Divx FourCC, I still think it's quite a leap to conclude it's because manufacturers would need to pay Rovi a fee.
    Do you really think that LG pays Rovi nothing to say that a player is DivX certified or to add DivX playback capability in the US? The DivX name is trademarked, and some aspects of the codec are patented and Rovi owns the patents. Rovi is a US company with a lot of power in the consumer electronics industry. They changed their name from "Macrovision Solutions" a few years ago. Now do you understand who they are and how willing they might be to sue over trademark or patent infringement?
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  18. You're putting words in my mouth. Of course LG would pay Rovi for Divx certification. Divx certification just says "this player is guaranteed to play these particular files". However I don't necessarily agree LG or any other manufacturer would be required to pay Rovi a fee in order to play AVI files containing mpeg4, part 2 encoded video simply because the FourCC is DX50. It's basically just a tag in a file which probably does nothing more than tell the player the type of video to expect. DX50 or Xvid, it'll expect the video to be mpeg4, part 2. Claiming it'll be patent infringement if the FourCC happens to be DX50 seems to be pure assumption and doesn't make sense to me.

    In the case of LG their non-DivX players may refuse to play such files in order to distinguish them from their Divx certified players. That may be LGs decision or it may be part of an agreement with Rovi. I'm speculating as to the reason but I doubt it's because they'd be required to pay Rovi a fee to produce a player which decodes mpeg4, part 2 video in an AVI because the FourCC happens to be DX50.

    Which aspects of the codec are patented by Rovi? mpeg4, part 2 video is an mpeg standard, developed by mpeg. Even the profiles (mobile, home theatre etc) used by the encoders are part of the mpeg stadard. Xvid, Divx, 3ivx, Quicktime, Nero Digital etc..... all do nothing but encode according to the mpeg standard.

    Divx is proprietary software, but if Rovi do have patents when it comes to a method of encoding mpeg4, part 2 video, I can't see how they'd possibly have any patents involving the ability to decode it.

    I've probably owned half a dozen mpeg4 DVD players over the years. None have been Divx certified and the FourCC hasn't made any difference. Most of my Xvid/AVI encodes have used DX50. It seems kind of odd an Xvid Home Theatre profile would use DX50 by default if it's likely to reduce player compatibility rather than improve it, so I suspect it's more likely because Divx certified players will reject the Xvid FourCC than it being the other way around.
    Last edited by hello_hello; 20th Dec 2013 at 08:18.
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    Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    You're putting words in my mouth. Of course LG would pay Rovi for Divx certification. Divx certification just says "this player is guaranteed to play these particular files". However I don't necessarily agree LG or any other manufacturer would be required to pay Rovi a fee in order to play AVI files containing mpeg4, part 2 encoded video simply because the FourCC is DX50. It's basically just a tag in a file which probably does nothing more than tell the player the type of video to expect. DX50 or Xvid, it'll expect the video to be mpeg4, part 2. Claiming it'll be patent infringement if the FourCC happens to be DX50 seems to be pure assumption and doesn't make sense to me.

    In the case of LG their non-DivX players may refuse to play such files in order to distinguish them from their Divx certified players. That may be LGs decision or it may be part of an agreement with Rovi. I'm speculating as to the reason but I doubt it's because they'd be required to pay Rovi a fee to produce a player which decodes mpeg4, part 2 video in an AVI because the FourCC happens to be DX50.

    Which aspects of the codec are patented by Rovi? mpeg4, part 2 video is an mpeg standard, developed by mpeg. Even the profiles (mobile, home theatre etc) used by the encoders are part of the mpeg stadard. Xvid, Divx, 3ivx, Quicktime, Nero Digital etc..... all do nothing but encode according to the mpeg standard.

    Divx is proprietary software, but if Rovi do have patents when it comes to a method of encoding mpeg4, part 2 video, I can't see how they'd possibly have any patents involving the ability to decode it.

    I've probably owned half a dozen mpeg4 DVD players over the years. None have been Divx certified and the FourCC hasn't made any difference. Most of my Xvid/AVI encodes have used DX50. It seems kind of odd an Xvid Home Theatre profile would use DX50 by default if it's likely to reduce player compatibility rather than improve it, so I suspect it's more likely because Divx certified players will reject the Xvid FourCC than it being the other way around.
    Using the term codec correctly, a codec is an encoder, or decoder not a a video standard. MPEG-4 part 2 is a standard. DivX produces patented encoders and decoders for the MPEG-4 part 2 standard, among others. The DivX name is trademarked, so if a manufacturer advertises DivX playback in its specs for the product without actually obtaining a DivX decoder or certification from Rovi, Rovi might argue that they are making a false claim about the product sue them on that basis. Rovi's DivX MPEG-4 part 2 decoders are patented, so if one were used without obtaining licensing and paying the required fees, that would be patent infringement.

    The only way around it would be to play files marked as DX50 as an undocumented feature, but as you said obtaining DivX certification for some products would likely mean agreeing not to play files marked as DX50 in players that were not DivX certified.

    You live in Australia. Did you ever stop to think that being in N. America where the OP and I live may make a difference in what is legally allowed and what video standards are supported by the products sold here? [Edit]There was a period of time when there were more DVD players that played MPEG-4 part 2 video of some description but it even then, not every DVD player included the feature. If someone today really wants a disc player here that will play DX50 files they should to look for one that is certified.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 20th Dec 2013 at 15:38.
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  20. Using the term codec correctly, it's actually a computer program capable of encoding/decoding. coder-decoder. The encoder usually encodes video according to a particular format, in this case mpeg4 part 2 video, which has nothing to do with Rovi aside from the fact they have a codec capable of producing it. A special "Rovi patented" decoder is not required to decode it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codec
    "A codec (the program) should not be confused with a coding or compression format or standard – a format is a document (the standard), a way of storing data, while a codec is a program (an implementation) which can read or write such files. In practice, however, "codec" is sometimes used loosely to refer to formats."

    Nobody is talking about advertising DivX playback without obtaining a certification from Rovi. Non-Divx players simply advertise the ability to play mpeg4 video, and as we've established, video encoded with the Divx encoder is simply mpeg4 video. It's a standard format, not a Rovi codec, and not a special Rovi video format which can only be decoded with a Rovi patented decoder.

    I very much doubt Rovi has a patented mpeg4 decoder anyway, but even if they did, I don't believe there'd be any patent infringement simply because video encoded with the Divx encoder was decoded by a "standard" mpeg4 decoder. It's just mpeg4, part 2 video.

    I'm well aware we live in different countries, but speculation over patent infringement against Rovi because a player will decode mpeg4 part 2 video, DX50 FourCC or not, doesn't sound too convincing regardless of geography.
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    There are LG Blu-Ray players in the N. American market that claim to play Xvid but not DivX, and will play video using the XVID fourcc ID but do not play DX50 unless the FourCC code is changed to XVID. Since this has been going on for two years, it looks like deliberate choice on LG's part rather than a mistake. Coincidentally, Rovi acquired DivX a little over two years ago.

    Taking patent issues out of the argument, you still haven't given a better explanation for why these players specifically exclude DivX playback than that LG needs to pay Rovi for DivX playback.

    Saying it's a "chipset thing" is a not a very convincing reason. You said that you have personal experience with older players that play both kinds of MPEG-4 part2 video and that this should be a simple thing to do from a technical standpoint. So if giving a player the ability to play both would be technically simple and cheap if there is no need to pay extra to play DivX, then why don't these players play both?

    [Edit]LG wishing to distinguishing its DivX certified players from the others isn't a very good explanation either. The BP-730 isn't being advertised in the US as DivX certified, although it apparently does play DivX files. It may even be DivX certified. Amazon UK's listing for the player claims it is DivX certified, and one of the BP-730's available apps in the UK is for DivX VOD.


    Last edited by usually_quiet; 21st Dec 2013 at 07:41.
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  22. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Saying it's a "chipset thing" is a not a very convincing reason. You said that you have personal experience with older players that play both kinds of MPEG-4 part2 video and that this should be a simple thing to do from a technical standpoint. So if giving a player the ability to play both would be technically simple and cheap if there is no need to pay extra to play DivX, then why don't these players play both?
    Thinking about it, most of my mpeg4 capable DVD players have been of Chinese origin but they're still legally sold here.

    It seems I was wrong about AutoGK using DX50 by default. I don't know if it changed at some point, but I dug out some old AVIs which I know where encoded with AutoGK and the FourCC was Xvid. MeGUI says it's using DX50 for the Xvid home theatre profile, but after running a few test encodes I discovered it actually writes Xvid regardless of the FourCC selected, so I filed a bug report there.

    Anyway.... I found an AVI with Xvid as the FourCC, one with DX50, and one with DIV3 and gave them a playback test using my Samsung TV's media player (it's not DivX certified but there's a TV in this house which is), a Samsung Bluray player (I can't remember the model number but it's a couple of years old) and a Sony BDPS480 Bluray player (neither are DivX certified). The TV happily played all three. It actually surprised me it played the DIV3 file (I was under the impression they could be non-standard), but it did. The Samsung Bluray player also played all three.

    The Sony Bluray player refused to play anything but the AVI with the Xvid FourCC, which I'll admit also surprised me. It also surprised me that after remuxing an AVI with a DX50 FourCC as an MKV, it still wouldn't play the video (still the same "unsupported" message). After changing the FourCC to Xvid the Sony player happily played the video, and after remuxing that AVI as an MKV it happily played it too.
    The Sony player wouldn't play DIV3 video even when I changed the FourCC, but I'm not sure if that's because it couldn't, or because there was something odd going on with the file. Once I changed the FourCC, MPC-HC wouldn't play it either.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    LG wishing to distinguishing its DivX certified players from the others isn't a very good explanation either.
    Well given it's simply mpeg4 part 2 video and the player is obviously perfectly capable of decoding it, but either it doesn't understand, or it's effectively "blocking" playback of video with a DX50 FourCC, it seems plausible to me.
    At least I can replicate the refusal to play DX50 video with the Sony Bluray player here. I'm still not convinced patent infringement is the reason though. The FourCC is effectively just a tag in a file which tells the decoder what type of video to expect.... as far as I know.
    And what about other types of media players such as the media player built into my TV or standalone players such as the ones Western Digital make? Surely if there's patent infringement involved those types of players would refuse to play AVIs with a DX50 FourCC too (if they're not DivX certified), but while I can't say I've ever tested one, I'd be willing to bet they don't.
    Last edited by hello_hello; 23rd Dec 2013 at 23:35.
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  23. hellol_hello,Since you've already got these dozen or so different flavors of files (DX50, FourCC, MKV, AVI, DIV3, DIVx,MPEG-4, xvid, H264, etc) why don't you upload 1 minute clips for other people to use as test clips.
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  24. That's easy enough to do. There's 6 files in the "Samples" zip file (they're only about 15 seconds long but that should be enough).

    Xvid.avi
    Xvid.mkv
    DX50.avi
    DX50.mkv
    DIV3.avi
    DIV3.mkv

    The first four contain exactly the same video. The FourCC was originally Xvid. I changed it to DX50 for the two files named DX50. The frame rate is 23.976fps. The audio is VBR MP3.

    I couldn't find any DIV3 video with a frame rate of 23.976. I don't know if it'll make any difference, but the frame rate for the two DIV3 files is 25fps. The audio is VBR MP3.

    I re-tested the players here using the above files just to be sure. The Samsung TV and Bluray player both play them all. The Sony Bluray player will only play the two Xvid files.
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