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  1. Member
    Join Date: Feb 2006
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by rcubed View Post
    I don't want to get into a protracted discussion but Winpatrol, SuperAntiSoftware and others, some of it is even free ImgBurn for example which I have supplied donation to on multiple occasions. Most of these have a stand alone install package that includes all the latest update included.
    By saying "commercial consumer software" I meant to exclude freeware/donationware programs like those you mention which provide free updates indefinitely. I meant software that follows the typical business model of supplying a few patches between versions, but expects payment for every new version released, or even operates on a subscription basis like most security software and Adobe Creative Suite. Since you object to paying for new versions of MS Office, I suggest Open Office, which follows the donation-dependent business model used by the software mentioned in your post. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the latest MS Office, but you cant expect that given the fact that the funding available to maintain and improve the software is much smaller.


    Originally Posted by rcubed View Post
    You missed my point. Apparently your and my definition of support differ. I am not interested in perpetual support in fixing new problems, I am simply interested in being able to get a stand alone copy of all the updates (final version) that I can keep on the media of my choice in my possession so that IF I decide I need to reinstall XP for example, I am not at the mercy of $MS in the future. Implicit in my purchasing the product was the understanding that I would be able to have a working, bug free piece of software, with the understanding that as problems occur they would correctly be fixed (for the support period).

    I agree that I don't expect $MS to supply support forever. The same thing applies to some of other programs I use. $MS (and other companies) used to supply the updates (or the most recent version as a complete stand alone installer) as a stand alone file. Lately some have opted for a download of an installer program that accesses the web site and pulls down the actual files to do the update. There are perhaps technical reasons why they have done this, but I don't think it is a large burden on $MS to consolidate all the updates in one or more stand alone package(s) at the time they decide to end "support" for a product and make that available. I used to keep copies of all the updates but that has become nearly impossible for the reason just mentioned above.

    As I pointed out, in lieu of a complete offline (stand alone) updates package apparently the only viable option is to build a basic complete image of XP with all available updates at that point and back that up on the media of your choice. As I admitted shame on me for not keeping more recent on my backups. As for a subsequent service pack I can tolerate additional things in a update package as long as there is an uninstall option (method) for that update included (I'm thinking mostly of software issues (i.e. Bing - not security issues).

    My main point of contention in my original post was the fact (and my opinion) is that for whatever reason they have indirectly or intentionally made that process very difficult, i.e the updater stops working after having installed the first or second, or third..... set (or all three or more) of updates, and these are problems that have been going on for years before they decided to end support and they should have been addressed (and fixed) years ago. I believe it is intentional and part of their business plan. Others may disagree, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the matter. Only $MS knows and they aren't disclosing anything nor would I expect them to.

    rcubed
    No, you are mistaken. I understood exactly what you meant. However, I remember having to attempt downloading one of the service packs 3 times before finally getting the full download. It may or may not have been a problem at Microsoft's end. My DSL connection or ISP might have been to blame. ...but when a large download fails near the end and you have to start over, it is a more frustrating experience and a bigger waste of time than when a small one fails and has to be started again.

    Yes, Microsoft wants all XP users to move on and a lot of software publishers and hardware manufacturers would like to see that happen as well. I'll agree that Microsoft is deliberately devoting fewer and fewer resources to providing updates for XP as its user base erodes. I sure they know doing this will encourage some customers to stop using XP.


    As a side note MS has already stopped selling Windows 7, so those XP users who prefer Windows 7 to Windows 8.1 for a new PC build or upgrading once XP support stops might want to buy a copy before the existing supply dries up.
    not according to here - http://club.myce.com/f94/microsoft-changes-mind-doesn-t-discontinue-sales-windows-7-a-334668/
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  2. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2006
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    I didn't see that because the last time I looked was sometime in late November, and the story at that time was that MS had officially ended Windows 7 sales on October 30.
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  3. Windows 7 won't be killed off until we have something better than the win8 disaster, just like XP was kept alive till we got past vista.
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  4. Excellent. I was hoping to be able to run Win7 on the PC I'm planning on building early next year.
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  5. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2006
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    It turns out october626 is wrong. The date for which Microsoft will stop allowing PC makers to sell machines with Windows 7 pre-installed has yet to be determined, but Microsoft actually did stop selling copies of the retail versions of Windows 7 to retailers on October 30, 2013. There may be some in stock now, but once they are gone, there will be no more. See http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle

    The only Windows license individuals can buy directly from Microsoft now is for Windows 8.1.

    Microsoft may still be shipping OEM versions of Windows 7 to retailers selling PC components to system builders, but I am not certain of it.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 26th Dec 2013 at 12:27. Reason: clarification
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  6. For funzies.... and because I'll probably want to buy Win7 soon, I checked my local PC shop's price list. No retail version of Win7 there at the moment. I'm not sure if that's because they don't bother including it in the price list, or because they no longer have the retail version to sell, but I suspect they'll be selling the OEM versions for quite a while. I'd imagine the OEM version will also be available online for a fair while too. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986

    And yes I know technically the EULA says you're supposed to install Microsoft OEM software on a new PC built for the purpose of selling, but in the real world....
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  7. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2006
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    Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    And yes I know technically the EULA says you're supposed to install Microsoft OEM software on a new PC built for the purpose of selling, but in the real world....
    True. I even bought a Windows 7 OEM license when I built my current desktop, but technically the OEM copy is tied to an individual motherboard, and is not transferable to a new motherboard. I'm told MS will probably still activate an OEM license purchased by an individual (not Dell, Gateway, etc.) if they choose to install a new motherboard later, especially if the story told to MS should they question the activation is that the change is a repair, but there is no guarantee that that will always be true.

    I bought a retail copy of Windows 7 that was put on sale just before Windows 8 arrived for my next build. I had 2 reasons for that. I wanted to be sure a hardware change couldn't invalidate the license. I also wasn't sure whether I'd go with 64-bit Windows 7 or 32-bit Windows 7 at the time, and I got both with the retail package.
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  8. Member
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    I really do not want to stop my Xp but a few months back I bought the NON oem Win 7 64 pro and plan to create a virtual HDD image from my current xp setup and more or less use VMware to still use my Xp setup on win 7.

    I would not want to risk going online with my XP after the updates stop, but I would like it to run a week or two later just to make sure that I have all the latest (or last) security updates they will offer before I make the image
    want to see some true 3d clips, custom figures, some hardcore music and other crap?? Check out my youtube page www.youtube.com/mazinz2
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  9. I wonder how risky using XP to go online would really be.... at least when using a browser other than IE. I really don't know much about internet security but logically a nasty/exploit/virus would need to get past the browser first before it can cause any harm, so if the browser itself is kept up to date........?

    I use this PC for surfing every day (Firefox and XP) while sometimes travelling to dark corners of the internet, and it's been two or three years since I've even had anti-virus software installed. I'm yet to pick up an infection as a result. I'm fairly unenthusiastic when it comes to updating and patching software anyway. I probably run Windows update no more than twice a year while maybe updating Firefox a little more regularly. The last time I was infected by something was many, many years ago when IE5/6 was the latest and greatest, and Microsoft's ActiveX was the method of choice for picking up an infection, so I switched to a third party IE shell which allowed me to disable ActiveX completely.
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  10. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    True. I even bought a Windows 7 OEM license when I built my current desktop, but technically the OEM copy is tied to an individual motherboard, and is not transferable to a new motherboard. I'm told MS will probably still activate an OEM license purchased by an individual (not Dell, Gateway, etc.) if they choose to install a new motherboard later, especially if the story told to MS should they question the activation is that the change is a repair, but there is no guarantee that that will always be true.
    I suspect Microsoft would be on fairly shaky legal ground if they refused to allow someone to use the software they'd purchased, regardless of any comedy the EULA may contain.
    I recall talking to someone who repaired/built/sold PCs for a living a few years ago and he said Microsoft had never refused to re-active Windows after he'd upgraded a PC. I kind of remember him saying for brand name PC's (Dell, Gateway etc) it's still not a problem, but it sometimes involved using a generic key/disc to install Windows, then a phone call to Microsoft with the ID code from the original OEM disc. Or something like that.....
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  11. Member
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    Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    True. I even bought a Windows 7 OEM license when I built my current desktop, but technically the OEM copy is tied to an individual motherboard, and is not transferable to a new motherboard. I'm told MS will probably still activate an OEM license purchased by an individual (not Dell, Gateway, etc.) if they choose to install a new motherboard later, especially if the story told to MS should they question the activation is that the change is a repair, but there is no guarantee that that will always be true.
    I suspect Microsoft would be on fairly shaky legal ground if they refused to allow someone to use the software they'd purchased, regardless of any comedy the EULA may contain.
    I recall talking to someone who repaired/built/sold PCs for a living a few years ago and he said Microsoft had never refused to re-active Windows after he'd upgraded a PC. I kind of remember him saying for brand name PC's (Dell, Gateway etc) it's still not a problem, but it sometimes involved using a generic key/disc to install Windows, then a phone call to Microsoft with the ID code from the original OEM disc. Or something like that.....
    I recall hearing of quite the opposite situation -- Microsoft refusing to activate Windows after someone tried using a Windows OEM license that came with his Dell on the same machine after replacing the motherboard with one that Dell didn't supply.
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