Looking to get a capture card

[Tafflad]

I previously captured VHS tapes using a Canopus ADVC300 (no longer have this)

Looking to get a PCI/PCIe card (or even USB device if any good) to facilitate captures ... need to be able to get 'best' that I can out of S-VHS tapes into PC ..... using s-video input.
Capturing as AVI (with Lagarith as codec), although previously I used DV/AVI (been told off about this )

I did some Googling and on DigitalFAQ they rave about ATI All-in-wonder, so been trying to find one at reasonable price .......
Have come across Videomate C100 at reasonable price (new) are these any good, or should I hold out for ATI All-in-wonder

Please feel free to recommend anything else to look for .......... don't want to spend much though.

PC is W7 64 bit ....

[jman98]

I'm not a big ATI fan to be honest with you, but DigitalFAQ's recommended ATI hardware is actually OK provided that you don't have some ancient PC from 10+ years ago. However, I need to warn you that typically ATI devices do NOT capture AVI at all. They record MPEG-1 and MPEG-2. At sufficiently high bit rates, say 9000 Kbps and above, I do think you can get very good quality out of the ATI devices listed if your goal is to make DVDs and you record the tapes as MPEG-2, but again, they don't do AVI unless things have changed (I really do not care enough to keep up with their stuff so I cannot say with 100% certainty).

You'll have to decide what is the most important to you. Must you absolutely be able to record as AVI? If so then you'll need specific help from one of our members who is also part of the "Must... only... record... VHS... tapes... as... AVI" club. I think that MPEG-2 recording as high bit rates is good enough, but the "Must do AVI only" guys have pretty strong feelings that anything else is just crap. If you're one of them then they will have to help you here.

[Tafflad]

My reason for AVI is that I have been getting amazing help from guys on Restoration forum .... and that of course means AVIsynth & Virtual Dub ...... and almost always using AVi and Lageraith codec.
Nobody ever seems to talk about MPEG2 captures
I'm a novice so I follow the advice.

My goal is to capture VHS, restore where necessary, or tweak adjust where it isn't and create DVD's.

I use Vegas for compilation & creation ... so capture is just that ... capture only

[usually_quiet]

My reason for AVI is that I have been getting amazing help from guys on Restoration forum .... and that of course means AVIsynth & Virtual Dub ...... and almost always using AVi and Lageraith codec.
Nobody ever seems to talk about MPEG2 captures
I'm a novice so I follow the advice.

My goal is to capture VHS, restore where necessary, or tweak adjust where it isn't and create DVD's.

I use Vegas for compilation & creation ... so capture is just that ... capture only

jman98 is confused about ATI SD capture devices. Most can output uncompressed video an audio for lossless capture. On the other hand, most Hauppauge SD capture devices can't. (The exception is the Hauppauge USB Live 2)

Now the bad news: All of Digital FAQ's recommended ATI capture devices are out of production. The best All-In-Wonder cards were AGP devices, so unless you have an older PC running Windows XP with an AGP slot for video cards, you need to forget about those.

The ATI device that is good for today's PCs running Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 is the TV Wonder HD 600 USB, a small USB-stick type TV tuner that outputs uncompressed video and audio streams which can be captured losslessly. The other TV Wonder devices that can run on a modern system and provide uncompressed output, including the TV Wonder HD 600 PCI card, all have an issue where the automatic gain control screws up the capture at random. The TV Wonder HD 600 USB can often be found on ebay in the US. I'm not sure how common it is on ebay in the UK.

[sanlyn]

I'm not a big ATI fan to be honest with you, but DigitalFAQ's recommended ATI hardware is actually OK provided that you don't have some ancient PC from 10+ years ago. However, I need to warn you that typically ATI devices do NOT capture AVI at all. They record MPEG-1 and MPEG-2. At sufficiently high bit rates, say 9000 Kbps and above, I do think you can get very good quality out of the ATI devices listed if your goal is to make DVDs and you record the tapes as MPEG-2, but again, they don't do AVI unless things have changed (I really do not care enough to keep up with their stuff so I cannot say with 100% certainty).

Capture to lossless AVI is usually required by those who expect to do some intermediate processing of crappy VHS tape. The old ATI All In Wonders were usually used by advanced hobbyists with VirtualDub capture to lossless AVI, not to MPEG or to anything else. Most users never install the MMC encoding software, which is not required for the card's use. MMC was OK for its time in 1998, but most users quickly learned to avoid it.

[Tafflad]

....The TV Wonder HD 600 USB can often be found on ebay in the US. I'm not sure how common it is on ebay in the UK.

Do you know if these work OK on PAL ?
No problem buying from US if its the way to go


On most of the uS sites it seems to be that 600 no longer available and they have the ATI TV Wonder HD 650 USB

"http://www.amd.com/uk/products/pctv/tv-wonder-tuners/Pages/tv-wonder-hd-650-combo-usb-for-pc.aspx"

Would you know if this is just as good ?

And the simplistic Q for me ... is this going to be as good a capture as using ADVC300, which is what I previously had.

[usually_quiet]

....The TV Wonder HD 600 USB can often be found on ebay in the US. I'm not sure how common it is on ebay in the UK.

Do you know if these work OK on PAL ?
No problem buying from US if its the way to go

On most of the uS sites it seems to be that 600 no longer available and they have the ATI TV Wonder HD 650 USB

"http://www.amd.com/uk/products/pctv/tv-wonder-tuners/Pages/tv-wonder-hd-650-combo-usb-for-pc.aspx"

Would you know if this is just as good ?

And the simplistic Q for me ... is this going to be as good a capture as using ADVC300, which is what I previously had.

The driver's WDM capture filter has settings for PAL B and all the other PAL variants I have seen, but since I'm on the NTSC side of the Atlantic, I have never tried them.

If you buy the device, you can get the Windows 7 drivers here:http://www.diamondmm.com/tvw600usb-ati-amd-tv-wonder-hd-600.html

All the TV Wonder HD 650 devices have the automatic gain control problem I mentioned.


I never used the ADVC300 and don't capture VHS. However, according to the experts here at VideoHelp lossless capture can produce better results once someone has learned how to work with it. ...but from what I have seen in the forums here, people who have used the ADVC300 or another capture device that outputs DV over Firewire often want to stick with that because they have already found a process that gives them satisfactory results and don't need to learn a new one.

[Tafflad]

Found this link ...
http://www.amd.com/uk/products/pctv/tv-wonder-tuners/Pages/tv-wonder-product-matrix.aspx

It does not mention uncompressed video capture, or am I reading it wrong ?
seems to be MPEG2, MPEG4, H.264, WMV9

[jagabo]

The ATI device that is good for today's PCs running Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 is the TV Wonder HD 600 USB, a small USB-stick type TV tuner that outputs uncompressed video and audio streams which can be captured losslessly.

This device? http://www.amazon.com/ATI-Wonder-600-USB-Tuner/dp/B00138EOH8/

So it can take composite and s-video input?

[sanlyn]

Many confuse the newer ATI digital devices with the older analog-only AIW's. Not the same at all. With the older cards, ATI had different versions for PAL and NTSC; one wouldn't work with the other. I understand that the newer digital versions will work with newer Windows, but I've never had the need to try them.

[DB83]

The ATI device that is good for today's PCs running Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 is the TV Wonder HD 600 USB, a small USB-stick type TV tuner that outputs uncompressed video and audio streams which can be captured losslessly.

This device? http://www.amazon.com/ATI-Wonder-600-USB-Tuner/dp/B00138EOH8/

So it can take composite and s-video input?

Think you answered your own question.

But for my friend's benefit the answer is a big N O

Methinks that analgue capture devices are pretty thin on the ground these days. Could be why so many people end up with an EasyCap

[usually_quiet]

The ATI device that is good for today's PCs running Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 is the TV Wonder HD 600 USB, a small USB-stick type TV tuner that outputs uncompressed video and audio streams which can be captured losslessly.

This device? http://www.amazon.com/ATI-Wonder-600-USB-Tuner/dp/B00138EOH8/

So it can take composite and s-video input?

Think you answered your own question.

But for my friend's benefit the answer is a big N O

Methinks that analgue capture devices are pretty thin on the ground these days. Could be why so many people end up with an EasyCap

The link is the right device and it CAN take composite and S-video with the capture accessory cable that should be provided with the complete product. I should know since I have a TV Wonder HD 600 USB.

[jagabo]

This device? http://www.amazon.com/ATI-Wonder-600-USB-Tuner/dp/B00138EOH8/

So it can take composite and s-video input?

The link is the right device and it CAN take composite and S-video with the capture accessory cable that should be provided with the complete product. I should know since I have a TV Wonder HD 600 USB.

The description at Amazon says it accepts composite and s-video input but the picture only shows an RG connector. So I wasn't sure if the description was right.

Ah, here we go. This post at ebay shows the pigtail adapter plugged into the side:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-TV-Wonder-600-USB-Hybrid-HD-Tuner-/251393931106

In case the ebay image disappears, here's a small version of the picture as a reference:

[sanlyn]

The accessory cable connects to...

Okay, jagabo beat me to it. Again.

[usually_quiet]

Found this link ...
http://www.amd.com/uk/products/pctv/tv-wonder-tuners/Pages/tv-wonder-product-matrix.aspx

It does not mention uncompressed video capture, or am I reading it wrong ?
seems to be MPEG2, MPEG4, H.264, WMV9

I have an ATI TV Wonder HD 600 USB. It does output uncompressed video and audio. That is all it can do when capturing analog sources since it lacks a hardware MPEG-2 encoder.

[MykRian]

I've been looking for several years for a card to transfer our camcorder tape videos to digital.
Last week, I bought a Hauppauge Colossus PCI-e card. Took an hour to set it up, and get it running.
Win 7 already had the updated drivers.
The card came with the Win-TV IR cable and software, which I haven't even started to investigate.
Very happy customer.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004OVE2B4/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[PuzZLeR]

I have an ATI 600 USB, and (embarrassingly) several dozen others, so I will comment to answer a few questions in this thread.

- The ATI 600 USB is the BEST capture device I've owned. Best quality - better than the Hauppauge USB-Live2, and the (authentic) ezcap.tv and any others I've sampled in my opinion. (But I still say the Hauppauge USB-Live2 and (authentic) ezcap.tv are excellent products.)


- After several years of abuse, hours and hours of TV capture in MPEG, hours and hours of VHS AVI captures, the 600 keeps going. It is still reliable. I have 2 backups that haven't been called to duty yet, and likely won't be for another decade, or more, or ever(?).


- The 600 can do it all with the right software: MPEG capture, Uncompressed (RGB), YUV formats (including the recommended YUY2 4:2:2), DV video (although wouldn't recommend VHS captures with this format). Works beautifully in VirtualDub (as well as good TV capture software like WinMC, SageTV or Beyond TV.) Actually, so do the Hauppauge USB-Live2 and the (authentic) ezcap.tv.


- In several years of use I have seen no AGC issue with the 600 USB. None.


- All products I've mentioned here easily handle composite (RCA) and S-Video (Y-C).


- Do not confuse the ATI 600 with the 650, or especially not the 750 (in which the latter was clearly an inferior product in my opinion). Under the hood of the 600 is a different architecture, similar to, AFAIK, the Theater chipset used in the very good AIW ATI cards of old.


- Do not install any of the software, such as Catalyst. Just install the WDM drivers. The Catalyst software, as is more rule than exception when it comes to packaged apps for capture products, like MMC, WinTV - and other worse ones - it, and almost all the others, pretty much SUCK.


- The 600 works fine in NTSC Nation, but not sure about PAL. Works on XP and Vista, but can't comment on Win7. But there are earlier posts on this in this thread.

[PuzZLeR]

As for MPEG-2 vs DV vs AVI lossless, here are my comments.

Capturing in HuffYUV, or other similar lossless format, is clearly superior in quality, including for VHS Source. You can filter, edit, etc and THEN archive to another format later.


Capturing in DV is not the best (has color issues, and even drops frames on me) but works great if you capture to HuffYUV THEN encode to DV (such as with the Cedocida codec) for archiving (or editting) later. DV was designed to be a camera and edit/friendly format, not really a capture format for VHS.


Capturing direct-to-MPEG-2 has (quite severe) artifacts, even at the higher bitrates, and will be WORSE YET if you wish to do any post processing work (filters, cropping, etc). You are better off capturing in HuffYUV, then encoding the final result to MPEG-2 using a good MPEG encoder like HC Enc or CCE. There will still be artifacts regardless, but your result will be better for DvD, or even if you wish to archive in MPEG - starting with lossless first.

I only capture direct-to-MPEG-2 for TV captures, out of convenience due to the ongoing volume (documentaries, sports events, music videos) and the timed software designed for scheduled TV (since I'm not home much). I accept the quality hit for convenience since it would be a pain doing this in bigger formats.

[Tafflad]

- Do not confuse the ATI 600 with the 650, or especially not the 750.

Sorry to labour the point .... can't seem to find the '600' for sale .... only the '650'

On this link:
http://www.amd.com/uk/products/pctv/tv-wonder-tuners/Pages/tv-wonder-product-matrix.aspx

The table seems to list them as similar .... I note the comment that the 750 should be avoided, is it definite that 650 should also be avoided? ... if that is case, only chance would be a used product.

[Brad]

It's discontinued; you'll indeed only find it second-hand. The only thing to be wary of is that the seller includes the little input cable.

Here are jagabo's famous examples showing why the 650 should be avoided: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/326560-Which-is-better-usb-stick-vhs-cap-or-hd-pvr-...=1#post2023227

Under the hood of the 600 is a different architecture, similar to, AFAIK, the Theater chipset used in the very good AIW ATI cards of old.

Oddly enough, it actually uses an "off-the-shelf" Texas Instruments ADC paired with an eMPIA USB controller. None of the tech in it is ATI.

I'm curious why you prefer it to the Hauppauge USB-Live2, if you wouldn't mind explaining.

[PuzZLeR]

- Do not confuse the ATI 600 with the 650, or especially not the 750.

Sorry to labour the point .... can't seem to find the '600' for sale .... only the '650'

On this link:
http://www.amd.com/uk/products/pctv/tv-wonder-tuners/Pages/tv-wonder-product-matrix.aspx

The table seems to list them as similar .... I note the comment that the 750 should be avoided, is it definite that 650 should also be avoided? ... if that is case, only chance would be a used product.

Hi again.


I actually don't have a 650 in my heap, so can't comment other than hearsay from this Forum and others. My wording did not suggest it is a bad product, just that it is a completely different product than the 600 in its manufacture, not just a "new version". Others here have used it with good results, so I have no intention to disregard it. You can do a search and determine for yourself.


As for the 750, also a different product, I HAVE used one, and this one I WILL suggest to avoid. It was terrible, constant dropped frames, color bursts, weaker quality - all with the same settings/hardware/software used by the 600 and others that had good results.


I'm sure I pointed this out in a thread a couple of years ago. Can search for it if you're interested when I get back from work.


Unfortunately the 600 is no longer in production. You will have to find it from an available reseller that stocks them, or buy it used.

[PuzZLeR]

Here are jagabo's famous examples showing why the 650 should be avoided: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/326560-Which-is-better-usb-stick-vhs-cap-or-hd-pvr-...=1#post2023227

Under the hood of the 600 is a different architecture, similar to, AFAIK, the Theater chipset used in the very good AIW ATI cards of old.

Oddly enough, it actually uses an "off-the-shelf" Texas Instruments ADC paired with an eMPIA USB controller. None of the tech in it is ATI.

Ahh, your post just beat mine. Thanks for the info on the 650, I was actually thinking of getting one and testing it. Now I won't.


As for the 600's design, I wasn't sure (hence the "AFAIK") . I was like Smurfie, both of us not sure, and neither of us signing off to anything, such as this post:


http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/2451-ati-wonder-7500-a.html

I'm curious why you prefer it to the Hauppauge USB-Live2, if you wouldn't mind explaining.

I'm assuming you're talking to Tafflad here. My favorite is the 600.

@Tafflad: I say that if you don't want to go through the used or bidding or reseller song and dance, just get a Hauppauge USB-Live2 or an (authentic) ezcap.tv. I underline the word authentic to avoid the fake trash around the 'Net impersonating it.

You can get the authentic ezcap.tv here:

http://www.ezcap.tv/

Both too, the USB-Live2 and (authentic) ezcap.tv are also excellent USB capture products.

Ok, you guys twisted my arm. I will do a test of all three, the USB-Live2, the authentic ezcap.tv and the 600 USB cap sticks, coming to a thread near you. Just gimme a couple of weeks since I'm working like crazy this month.

[sanlyn]

I'm not a big fan of USB devices, but let's face it: the good ol' stuff is hard to find. The three devices that are suggested are not Black Magics (which won't capture to lossless anyway) but will do the job capturing VHS to lossless media, cleaning it up, and moving on. I would give the nod to those rather than capturing VHS to DV. The issue of line-level tbc is important. Don't one of those suggested devices have that capability? If not, a tbc pass-thru or a player with it built-in would solve that.

[Brad]

I'm curious why you prefer it to the Hauppauge USB-Live2, if you wouldn't mind explaining.

I'm assuming you're talking to Tafflad here. My favorite is the 600.

Nope; wondering why you go for the ATI 600 USB over the Hauppauge.

Ok, you guys twisted my arm. I will do a test of all three, the USB-Live2, the authentic ezcap.tv and the 600 USB cap sticks, coming to a thread near you. Just gimme a couple of weeks since I'm working like crazy this month.

Any chance you could use the same test patterns as the thread I'm working on if I share a small DVD file?

Don't one of those suggested devices have that capability?

If there is a USB stick that straightens out wavy lines, I'd love to hear about it.

[PuzZLeR]

I'm curious why you prefer it to the Hauppauge USB-Live2, if you wouldn't mind explaining.

I'm assuming you're talking to Tafflad here. My favorite is the 600.

Nope; wondering why you go for the ATI 600 USB over the Hauppauge.

Ahh, Ok.

Prominently, it's taste. Under the same hw/sw settings I find more detail with the 600. Blades of grass, hair strands, etc, show more, especially with higher quality caps like from analog Tv. The Hauppauge USB-Live2 tends to be cleaner video, but more smooth. Unless I'm doing something wrong, you can set its internal proc amp to the highest sharpness, it still doesn't reclaim those missing details (that are real, not grain).

This is preference, like I mentioned. Still recommend the Live2 as a good choice.

As for audio, the 600 also sounds better (although I'm not an audiophile). However, this is all moot since I capture directly through a mixer, and directly to the sound card anyway (which sounds nicer to me than any capture device's abilities).

Ok, you guys twisted my arm. I will do a test of all three, the USB-Live2, the authentic ezcap.tv and the 600 USB cap sticks, coming to a thread near you. Just gimme a couple of weeks since I'm working like crazy this month.

Any chance you could use the same test patterns as the thread I'm working on if I share a small DVD file?

Would love to participate, and would love to create another thread too to show the Forum. We could arrange something after the next couple of weeks since I'm swamped at work and will be out of town, but is sounds like fun.

[vhelp]

you should state what you are capting from these tapes, unless i missed that in all the responses made already.

are these from commercial movies on tape, or home video transfered to vhs tape ?

[PuzZLeR]

you should state what you are capting from these tapes, unless i missed that in all the responses made already.

are these from commercial movies on tape, or home video transfered to vhs tape ?

Hi vhelp,

From all Sources: commercial movies on tape, professional home productions on tape, good and warped old tapes from Tv recordings of decades ago, sports, documentaries, etc, even capturing analog Tv from the out-port of my cable box.

All are more detailed on the 600 USB. And more blurry, yet cleaner, on the USB-Live2.

I don't care for caps of commercial tapes really, since I would just buy the DvD, but, just for kicks, I even captured out of a DvD player directly, for high quality SD, and get similar results.

All were tested with S-Video since my wares support it. However never cared much to test with RCA/composite, so should do that too since it may have different results (though I doubt it).

Like I said, unless I'm doing something wrong, however, I have had more than one Hauppauge device over the years and more soft-centered video is not unheard of with them.

[Tafflad]

I have an ATI 600 USB, ... It is still reliable. I have 2 backups that haven't been called to duty yet, and likely won't be for another decade, or more, or ever(?).
.

Do you want to sell one ?

[Tafflad]

you should state what you are capting from these tapes, unless i missed that in all the responses made already.

are these from commercial movies on tape, or home video transfered to vhs tape ?

If this was aimed at me ... these are all PAL VHS tapes ... from Camcorder footage ... either my own so ... 90% S-VHSC original tapes, 10% VHS

Plus a couple of 'Professional videographer' VHS tapes and these are 'purchased copies' so not the original.

I have a Panasonic S-VHS deck that is used for playback ............. I noticed that people mention using a DVD recorder in 'play through' I also have a Panasonic DMR-E95H if that will perform 'play through' ... unsure.

[Tafflad]

[QUOTE=PuzZLeR;2285876]

Ok, you guys twisted my arm. I will do a test of all three, the USB-Live2, the authentic ezcap.tv and the 600 USB cap sticks, coming to a thread near you. Just gimme a couple of weeks since I'm working like crazy this month.

That test would be good ...