Several years ago 1999-2002, before I put my Sony DCR-TRV310 into storage, I had captured the avi content onto my hard drive using WinDV. At the time I didn't have a media player (Western Digital) that I could hook up to a TV to play these avi files.
The files ranged in sizes, with a few over 9GB, but most were below 4.3GB.
I wanted to issue these files to family and friends as DVD, so I remembered in my search that CCE was recommended to first re-encode them to a DVD compliant files (mpa, mpv, vaf) then use GUI for dvdauthor to produce the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders that contained the VOB files needed to burn as a DVD.
I remembered that I tried it with two files, both were about 650MB. Again, GUI for dvd author didn't recognized them since they weren't DVD compliant files. So I think I had tried the trial of CCE. What I do recall was that following the guides on this forum fro proper setting, the output was about less that half the size of the original avi file. I realized that it is compressing the file, but I wondered if it could do minimal compression since the file was much less than a blank DVD (4.3GB). Yes, I was will to use a blank DVD for just one small file.
I then had put the topic away and just kept the captured avi files on my hard drive. Technology moved on and software came and went. Development stopped on the ones that I was looking at the time.
I decided to come back to the topic having realized I still have these files. Yes, I realize I probably don't need to convert them to DVD compliant files since the technology has made it easy to just play them on an LCD TV with a USB stick, if that TV has the built in decoder for them.
But still I would like to better understand if there is a way to 'convert' not 'transcode' these smaller avi files to DVD compliant files with minimal compression.
I spent the last few days searching through videohelp for answers. I now understand that CCE at the time was not a good app for audio. One older thread suggested not checking the audio part and just do the video only. Then extract the audio using VirtualDub and save it as a WAV. Then use AC3Machine to convert it to AC3. Then use GUI for dvdautor to produce a DVD compliant package.
In my search, I saw that a few of these apps are no longer being developed. So now I am looking to see what app is best to convert these small avi files to DVD compliant, with minimal compression and actual audio capture. Is CCE still considered the best program to do this?
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By "avi" I hope you mean DV AVI and not some Divx/Xvid crap? I'm guessing by the 9GB file size that they are indeed DV AVI but that mention of 650MB scared me a bit.
WinDV to capture the contents, uncompressed to my HD. Examples of the length and size:
32m 31ses = 7,136,328 KB
23 sec = 87,746 KB
When I used WinDV at the time, I captured a tape's content several ways.
1) the whole tape which could be up to 15 GB
2) The individual time periods, which varies from 62,000 KB to 15,000,000 KB.
Why did I do it this way? Because one tape may contain several different events, such as a birthday, the mountains, the city, the beach etc. So I wanted the flexibility to just issue that particular event to friends and family that wanted a copy.
For the AVI that exceeds 8GB, I understand that I would have to re-encode for it to fit on a single sided DVD. But what about the short events, like a Birthday cake candle blow-out that only lasted 3min 28sec = 761,177 KB. What if I just wanted to put that on a blank one side DVD only. (I have enough blanks, so it wouldn't be a waste to be, just in case someone mentions that). If I re-encode I loose quality. It's already small enough to fit on a DVD, but it isn't DVD compliant, from what I understand. Or, am I mistaken.
If I'm correct in that these AVI have to be "converted" or "re-encoded" for them to be DVD compliant, is there an app that could be used on the smaller size AVIs that will not compress it. Sort of like a 1:1 conversion.
DVD is MPEG2 or MPEG1. DVD can't be anything else. This doesn't mean that DVD players can't play other formats. Many can. But those "other" formats will not be formatted as DVD disc.
The specs for PAL/NTSC/NTSC Film: http://www.videohelp.com/dvd#techOur inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. They are but improved means to an unimproved end. -- Henry David Thoreau
Thanks for the responses. I do understand that the DV AVI files need to be converted/re-encoded for them to be DVD compliant. I was just hoping the technology for TVs and standalone DVD players had caught up with the PC. I'll explain what I mean. These DV AVI files that I captured from my Sony Camcorder Digital 8, when I open them in VLC media player, they play. Clearly VLC has the codec to play them back. I also understand the AVI is a container.
Now as a test I just did the following. I have an LG HDTV that's two years old. It has a USB port to view only JPEG files. So I had purchased a Western Digital Media Player (WD TV Live Plus). The media formats that it will play are AVI(Xvid, AVC, MPEG1/2/4, WMV9, VC-1), MPG/MPEG, VOB, MKV (h.264, x264, AVC, MPEG1/2/4, WMV9, VC-1), TS/TP/M2T (MPEG1/2/4, AVC, AVC-1), MP4/MOV (MPEG4, h.264), M2TS, WMV9.
I can take an AVI file that I created using FairUse Wizard (Xvid) and it will play it on the LG TV throught the WD media player. It will also play the .mp4 files I creat using MeGUI (x264). But I just decided to copy one of the DV AVI files that I had captured from the camcorder to my flash drive and tried to see if the WD Media Player would recognized it. No luck. I even tried copy the .mpv file that was created a few years back when I experimented with the trial version of CCE. No luck.
So if the WD Media Player doesn't have the available codec built in to play back these DV AVI files, I'm guessing that the current DVD standalone player done either.
Simply put, I'm asking myself, It's 2013, why should I even have to convert or re-encode these files. It made sense a few years ago when DVDs/CDs were the primary means of viewing movies/videos on a TV. These days, flash drives are available in large capacity and may TVs have USB ports. So I thought the technology may have caught up where you can just copy these files as is (20 GB etc) to a flash drive or even burn them as data files to a DVD and have the media player, stand alone DVD player or TVs play them back with ease as I do on my PC. Hoping these devices have the codec built in to play them back.
I hope you follow what I'm getting at.
On the issue of the file size. Thanks for the info smrpix. You say the files will be 2/5 the original file when re-encoded. That explains why when I had originally experimented with CCE and one of my files (761.177 KB) it outputted a file (mpv) of size (230, 346 KB). But still that isn't 2/5. I forgot how I was able to achive (230, 346 KB). I now I had to play with the bit rate. I had followed DJRUMP's guide from back in 2004:
I remember seeing different guides back then on bit rate settings. I think I had used the following to get the largest file size possible even though I knew CCE was compressing in the process of creating a DVD compliant file.
AVG:9,000 Min: 0,000 Max: 9,000. or AVG:6,000 Min:2,000 Max: 9,000.
Your question is somewhat rhetorical (it seems that way). I don't think DV is considered a "delivery" format,
that's why devices don't play it. Typically mpeg-2 for DVD tops out at about 9mbps, but you can go
somewhat lower, using mpeg-2 VBR, and still get very good quality.
VLC play back these files. Every DV AVI that I captured from my camcorder is playable with VLC. If it's an issue with having the right codec, then why can't the manufacturers of these devices add the same codec that VLC has to enable direct playback of these files. Be it on a flash drive or on a DVD as a data file. Again, I understand that AVI is just a container. So what exactly are these DV AVI files that these camcorder are/were recording. When I drag one of the files into GSPOT this is what it says:
Video- Codec:dvsd NameVC/DV Video
Audio - PCM Audio inf: 32000Hz 1024kb/s tot (2 chnls)
Some info on Digital8:
If my PC/VLC can play back these files then it must be utilizing a DV codec to do so. If that is the case, why then can't these modern devices (TV, DVD players, media players etc) have the codec built in to support playback, without having to convert/re-encode to a DVD format.
This is the Sony camcorder:
I guess there are some formats that are thought of as computer formats to be converted to something else. In other words "Intermediate" formats to be converted to a "delivery" format. DV, Lagarith, UT codec, etc,etc.
Regarding whether hardware devices should play them or not,
I suspect if you were to ask one of the vendors, WD TV Live for example, you'll get a similar answer.
You should be able to get a good result if you go to DVD. Have you tried it? Make your DVD, but keep the
DV masters for archive purposes.
All you need to do is buy WD Media Players for each family of relatives, copy your DV files to them, deliver them to the folks at home, teach them how to use it, buy TV's that can accept the player, and give lessons or pass out brochures explaining all the different vido formats that they will be able to play..
Or you can just make some DVD's and be done with it.Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. They are but improved means to an unimproved end. -- Henry David Thoreau
Let me make it easy for you. A lot of HDTVs today come with USB. These USB allow the user to put something call a flash drive into it. This flash drive has the ability to hold files. All kind of files. Now some of these HDTV has built in codec that enable the video files on the flash drive to play back the video. Now imagine the thought of putting an iso file on a flash drive and being able to play it from there. Why have a physical platter call a DVD when you can have all kinds of video files on the flash drive. On condition that the associated codecs has been licensed and loaded into the tuner.
Now, a sony DV AVI file can be played on a PC. That's because the codec exist and is loaded on the PC. But apparently the associated codec hasn't been installed with HDTV that I know of. Look, if you check the specs on some TVs it'll tell you if it can play back a certain files. I was just looking for some feedback and confirmation on the topic.
Imagine if in the next few months all TV manufacturers decided to included the codec to play back DV AVI files. Would you still go about re-encoding to DVD compliant, when you could easily just transfer the AVI file to a flash drive or portable HD as is and plug it into the USB port of the TV and sit back and enjoy. That's what I was getting at.
Eventually the physical DVD platter will be phased out in favor of a home network server system which some people already have. All there movies are on a HD and just feed to their TV. There's no need for a DVD. Same with audio files (mp3).
I'm just surprised since 2002 when I re-encoded two of my file with CCE that the codec hasn't been introduced into most of the HDTVs that are out there.
I have a friend who's Samsung HDTV USB plays Xvid, DivX, mp4, iso, etc. But it's odd to me that DV AVI isn't included. He rarely uses a DVD player. All his DVD were ripped to iso form, or MKV. Puts them on his flash drive and sits back and enjoys. No DVD disc. Now be careful here, I'm not saying no DVD format. I mean the physical disc. The iso is still a DVD format but as a data file.
Anyway, thanks to smrpix, hech54, davexnet. I wanted to see if anything had changed since I first used CCE to re-encode those DV AVI files.
I suppose one reason for lack of DV support on set-top USB media players is the enormous filesize compared to the other SD formats that are supported. A 16GB USB stick can't hold much more DV content than a single 60-minute Digital8 or miniDV cassette. And while a 4TB drive can store 285 hours, that same storage could be used for perhaps 3x as much content at MPEG-2 DVD quality, and vastly more when you get into x264 and lower bitrates.
There are probably licensing fees involved too, which have to be weighed against the market for the added format support.
I understand about the electronic toys that get introduced every 15 minutes, and I add to my income setting up and fixing some of that stuff. But one thing that tech-hungry users don't seem to accept is that vast segments of the world's populations don't know and/or don't care about 90% of it. True, it's a "generation thing" to some extent but not entirely. I have young relatives and acquaintances who don't own an answering machine and don't want one. I service PC's in three counties in the Northeast and still see CRT's all over the place. The lady next door was given a DVD player that sat next to her TV for three years before someone informed her that it doesn't work because she never connected the player to her TV.
So all these marvelous features are great for those who want it, but many don't need or want it. A huge number of people don't know how to use this stuff and/or have other things to do and don't want to be bothered with online firmware updates or the rest of it. This includes a few youngsters that I know who are familiar with more technical voodoo than you can imagine, and one 12-year-old who knows how to build a lot of stuff from scratch, but they still just don't care about occupying their time with a lot of it. And there are good reasons why so many products don't come with printed user manuals; it's not just a cost saving measure.Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. They are but improved means to an unimproved end. -- Henry David Thoreau
reptile69 - I had similar attitude 5 years ago, tons of DV avi, nothing except PC would play it back. Not the reason to cry because of it because that's how it is.
Chip makers for media players do not include DV decoders on them. Whatever reason, it did happen. There is tons of media players (like WDTV Live) but severely lesser number of those chips that are in them. Blu-Ray players , the same. On the other hand in lots of situations chip is capable to decode certain formats but firmware in that device limits it further knowingly or just bad firmware writing. You could have different devices with same chips in them but firmware is so different that one device could be unusable and the other device would play most formats that are around.
Time is not here yet, if you believe it.
TV's are still not fully smart, some of them yes, meaning TV has processor, you install app on it, in our case player that have DV codec in it. It works with tablets now for example: you have nice fast tablet with fast processor, install MX player app on it and that tablet will play DV avi pulling it from network storage or some kind of server. For example Synology NAS and its video station app sending DVavi to Samsung Galaxy Note that has DS video app (for Synology) and DVavi is being playd nicely (faster then direct smb access with the same player , not sure why). But anyway even if this worked, that smart tv thing, you have to know what to do, not for parents or grandparents anyway.
For now you can:
---- make DVD , or BD , (for grandma for sure as was said) set bitrate ~8000 kbps (HCencoder) , AC3 192kbps (ac3to), mux it to dvd in ifoedit or do it all in some free DVD authoring like avstodvd you have one hour and 15 min or so, do not bother with menus, waste of time, describe on that dvd what's inside
----or encode it to H.264, or mpeg2, in this case you can do a full service to family, buy WDTV Live Hub with hardisk in it (depends where you are) and send it to them, they plug it and play , or you send them whatever data storage, flash, hardisk, DVD (with data on it)
---- set up easy website for them, password protected if you want, not sure why people doesn't take it into consideration
Dvavi , originals they can play only on their computers, even tablets as I said, so they have to know whats going on a bit. There is HVEC round the corner, so you encode all into H.264 and... it will make you think again, so doesn't matter what you keep originals
Last edited by _Al_; 6th Dec 2013 at 00:29.