Cinavia removal technique?

[Kerry56]

Anyone care to look at this supposed method for removing Cinavia? Audio really isn't my strong suit, so I can't tell just how serious this guy is, or if this is yet another red herring.

http://club.myce.com/f94/how-disable-cinavia-332950/#post2692027

[jagabo]

I don't know if it works or not. But it sounds like shit. Nobody in their right mind would do this.

[jman98]

Wow. That was pretty bad in the after.mp3 file.

It might really and truly defeat Cinavia to do this, but the price in lost quality will be higher than the vast majority of us will be willing to pay.

[enim]

seems like manual attempt in a audio editor.


Keep trying is only the way to success!

[jagabo]

If anything, I would try mixing the the GVerb distorted video's high frequencies with the source video's low frequencies. With a steep crossover around 6 or 8 KHz. I'd test it myself but I don't have any devices that respond to Cinavia.

[Gradius2]

Always put FLAC (or wav) files for that, never in a lossy format.

I can't work with lossy specially if I want to analyze them!

[Gradius2]

What I read is there is a "silent" frame (1ms) each 20 sec, just null that would works.

[Gradius2]

Well, I'll give a look today, but if is just that I still wonder why nobody did that (so I don't believe is that simple).

[Gradius2]

I need a simple (yet functional) DTS to WAV converter.

Btw, some nice infos:
http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/sec01/craver.pdf

[jagabo]

What I read is there is a "silent" frame (1ms) each 20 sec

No. You really thing something that simple wouldn't have been noticed and "fixed" by now? Not to mention you can easily hear a 30 to 40 ms burst of silence in any music soundtrack.

[Gradius2]

What I read is there is a "silent" frame (1ms) each 20 sec

No. You really thing something that simple wouldn't have been noticed and "fixed" by now? Not to mention you can easily hear a 30 to 40 ms burst of silence in any music soundtrack.

Found more information on other forum, it turns out it can't be on silent frame at all.

[pandy]

Silence is "allowed" at beginning and at the end of audio but this is related to audio compression not Cinavia.

https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#technotes/tn2258/_index.html

so

What I read is there is a "silent" frame (1ms) each 20 sec, just null that would works.

is incorrect.

Once again: Cinavia information is coded as pseudorandom (spread spectrum) phase changes (relatively small to be not detectable by human ear - probably somewhere around +-15 - 20deg) in audio over some frequency (over 7 - 8kHz).
Decoder analyze phase changes (in something like sliding correlator) and despread them to receive data bits - data bits are processed and Cinavia message is decoded to trig particular behaviour.

[Gradius2]

is incorrect.

Did you ever read the post above?! :P

[pandy]

is incorrect.

Did you ever read the post above?! :P

Yes - but this is not for You and me - this is for future search etc to stop madness related to guess how Cinavia works - way how it works is described roughly in few patents which are listed in decent threads (on this forum and on similar like dooom9).
Cianvia is robust method for watermarking audio, can survive various type distortions, filtering etc - any processing that is considered from Cinavia perspective as relatively linear phase processing.

[enim]

first understand FSM, and develop inverse FSM.

[Adrian747]

Since all Blu-Ray players have CINAVIA, a simple solution is to buy a non Blu-Ray DVD player. Maplin sell a good one on the internet (Nikkai Mini MPEG4 DVD Player with USB. Product Code: A32JC) which they will deliver postage free within a few days for £34.99. See their site for full details.

"In August 2013, an update to AnyDVD HD (version 7.3.1.0) provided the ability to prevent Cinavia enabled software Blu-ray players from detecting Cinavia. It also strips Cinavia from copies of original disks" has also been posted elsewhere on the internet.

[jman98]

Note that DVDs can support Cinavia and a small number of US releases on Sony do that. So it is possible to actually have a DVD player that does support Cinavia, although the spec seems to make it impossible to force support like could be done for BluRay. I'm sure that the play Adrian747 lists does not support Cinavia, but I want to be clear that it is indeed possible for it to be supported on a DVD player.

The AnyDVD HD update does not strip Cinavia from copies of original discs. It simply has something that makes software players unable to detect it, but Cinavia remains on the disc and standalone BD players will still detect it. Software and hardware players operate very differently which is how Cinavia can remain on the backup but the software detection method be defeated. Believe me, if AnyDVD HD could really and truly strip Cinavia away, everybody would be buying it and using it.

[Adrian747]

I haven't tried a DVD with CINAVIA on the Maplin player. I had a movie on a USB stick that would not play on a Blu-Ray DVD player because of CINAVIA, but it plays fine on the Maplin non Blu-Ray player.

[burnworld]

There are a few new software tools that have the CinEx module which is by far the best tool out there to bypass Cinavia and they are and. The CinEx add-on has the most ongoing support and testing to date and it is just about to get out of beta.

[Baldrick]

What the **** is the second link? SPAM

[jman98]

The first link is arguably spam too. I thought that people plugging their own commercial products was generally discouraged here.

Take a look here:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/351095-New-FilePop-Video-Converter
and view the post from Donato Totaro (one post wonder). Can't say that this sounds like any software I'd like to pay for.

[jagabo]

DVD Ranger -- yes it took us a year to finally deliver what we promised a year ago, and we know it sounds like crap, but believe us, it will get better, really. Just give us your money now.

[metagondria]

"In August 2013, an update to AnyDVD HD (version 7.3.1.0) provided the ability to prevent Cinavia enabled software Blu-ray players from detecting Cinavia. It also strips Cinavia from copies of original disks" has also been posted elsewhere on the internet.

Sure... And not only slysoft have found an "work arround" for it ONLY to get the backup to work on → PC ← i might add !!!

But what are you gonna do with your infected cinavia backup if you only have an stand alone player that checks for cinavia ehh !!?

Hack that ? Good Luck !! Still, even if you manage to hack an bluray player...
There is still the possibility they will counter that by enforce updates via retail bluray disc !!

And unless you do comply and update your player , iam quite sure you will be unable to keep playing the latest released movies iam sure off !!

And if you think , ah.. no troubles.. i'll rip bluray and delete firmware from backup disc !!
Still there's an chance they have put some firmware checks, and double checks that cannot be removed or work arround similar to cinavia, so that you are screwed anyway !!!

The only way that has worked for many years for dvd is to remove the protection completely so that the discs is recognized as homebrew in player !!

I dont think hacking the player will be an permanent sollution...

Take the ps3 for example !!!!

Sure they have hacked it at first, but later on when they start to sell new hardware revisions of the ps3 it wos hacker 1 vs Sony 2 → GAME OVER ← !!

[Cienoway]

Anyone care to look at this supposed method for removing Cinavia? Audio really isn't my strong suit, so I can't tell just how serious this guy is, or if this is yet another red herring.

http://club.myce.com/f94/how-disable-cinavia-332950/#post2692027

It works. Proper reverberation will remove Cinavia definitely. That is for sure. There are an infinite possible ways of producing audio effects that effectively erases Cinavia, the good old reverberation obviously is one of the many possible methods.

The problem is high performance good reverberation algorithm is a hard science problem yet unsolved. It is incredibly difficult to get natural sounding reverberation effect. That science problem has nothing to do with Cinavia. But proper reverberation removes Cinavia is a given fact. The question is thus reduced to how to do good quality reverberation. Obviously the one provided by Audacity is too primitive to be good.

My Cinavia removal method is much much better, and very computational efficient. I am still recruiting interest in my method, which is independently developed by me using nothing but my own ingenuity. There is no third party trade secret involved. So my method can be legally sold to the highest bidder. Contact me if any one is interested.

[jman98]

It's been well known and discussed to the point of beating a dead horse here that various audio processing methods disable Cinavia detection. Unfortunately all methods to date also make the audio inferior. Except for yours as you've been claiming at least since November 2013 that you and you alone out of all humanity have discovered the secret to this that nobody else knows. But it costs money. I see what you did there. Nice touch to disguise your post from being seen as commercial spam.

By the way, are you aware that removing Cinavia violates the DMCA? Your idea of getting rich via this may instead lead to bigger legal problems than you can ever imagine should someone actually buy your method - and I am giving you a gigantic pass here by not arguing that you are yet another bs artist just like all the ones before who claimed that only they knew how to do this.

[jagabo]

By the way, are you aware that removing Cinavia violates the DMCA?

I doubt masking Cinavia violates the DMCA. It's a watermark, not encryption. Of course, hiring a lawyer to defend yourself in court on this point will still cost a lot of money.

[Cienoway]

It's been well known and discussed to the point of beating a dead horse here that various audio processing methods disable Cinavia detection. Unfortunately all methods to date also make the audio inferior. Except for yours as you've been claiming at least since November 2013 that you and you alone out of all humanity have discovered the secret to this that nobody else knows. But it costs money. I see what you did there. Nice touch to disguise your post from being seen as commercial spam.

By the way, are you aware that removing Cinavia violates the DMCA? Your idea of getting rich via this may instead lead to bigger legal problems than you can ever imagine should someone actually buy your method - and I am giving you a gigantic pass here by not arguing that you are yet another bs artist just like all the ones before who claimed that only they knew how to do this.

I have demonstrate to people the superior audio quality of my method, even BEFORE the method was perfected. People agree it gave very good audio quality. Now it's perfected, there is no noticeable audio artifact any more.

There is absolutely NO DMCA issue here. Attempt to reverse engineering a piece of copyright protection software and temper it with by modifying the computer code to circumvent a copy protection mechanism, might violate DMCA.

But processing a piece of audio, is completely different. A piece of audio content is not computer code, or a device, or a mechanism, or an apparatus. A piece of audio is just that, a form of speech or expression that delivers some information. Any manipulation of a piece of audio content is FULLY PROTECTED by the First Amendment of Free Speech of the US Constitution.

I can modify a piece of audio any way I see fit and it is my freedom of speech right. If I feel like rising the pitch or lower the pitch, I can do that by my freedom of speech. If I feel like equalizing the audio and enhance some frequency component and reducing some other portions, it's my freedom of speech and I can do it. If I feel like compression the audio in a way and then recover it later, it is my freedom of speech to do so and convert the content any way I see fit. If I feel like reverberate the audio a bit I can do so.

If any of my audio processing some how results in the Cinavia detector fail to detect anything. Sorry not my problem, it's the problem of inferiority of the technology that does not work. If reverberation removes Cinavia, as it's demonstrates it does, does that make the thousand year old technology becomes illegal because it violates DMCA? Are they going to send all the audio studio professionals workin in Hollywood manipulating audio data to jails, because they work on devices that create reverberation or other audio processing techniques? That will be ridiculous.

So NO, there is absolutely no DMCA issue if you discover that a certain processing of audio content results in Cinavia being erased, it has nothing to do with DMCA. As a matter of fact, the Cinavia is not erased, it still exists in the signal. But it is in a form that the existing detector, or any improved detector, simply can not identify it any more. So it only proved that the technology is inferior and is undeserving to be protected by DMCA.

Let me re-emphasize, tempering with the actual software that does the Cinavia detection, might have a DMCA issue, but modifying audio content any way you see fit, is an issue of Freedom of Speech. The resultant audio content of my processing, is a derivative copyrighted work protected by the US copyright laws.

[smrpix]

Let me re-emphasize, tempering with the actual software that does the Cinavia detection, might have a DMCA issue, but modifying audio content any way you see fit, is an issue of Freedom of Speech. The resultant audio content of my processing, is a derivative copyrighted work protected by the US copyright laws.

From the perspective of a sophomore bong party this is completely logical. Legally you may have a more difficult road.

[Cienoway]

By the way, are you aware that removing Cinavia violates the DMCA?

I doubt masking Cinavia violates the DMCA. It's a watermark, not encryption. Of course, hiring a lawyer to defend yourself in court on this point will still cost a lot of money.

I must emphasize again that my method does not actually remove Cinavia. It is impossible to remove a watermark once it is added. But yet it will become completely un-recognizable by the detector, thus it is effectively removed.

You can't remove a watermark as it is something added to audio, and once added it can not be gotten rid of. If you add 2 and 3 you get 5. Can you get rid of 3 from 5? You can not. The 5 could be 1+4 or 2+3 or 2.5+2.5, you lose track where it came from and what to remove to get back to the original 2? Thus it can not be removed. Period. But it can easily be rendered un-recognizable by detector.

Verance joked with the entire world with the very name of their company. They effectively told every one what works to get rid of their Cinavia watermark., by adopting their own name, which hints at how to remove Cinavia effectively:

The name Verance, when you reverb it a bit with the letter, becomes the word Revance, which means reverberance, or reverberation. All the letters are still there. The letters have not been removed. But you no longer recognize the company's name in the name Revance, you only recognize the reverberation. They knew this from day one. They knew they have a broken technology from day one on the drawing board. And they are claiming a fairy tale that it is unbroken for 15 years?

I am sure, with my inspiration, within the next two years people will propose a couple dozen different ways of effectively remove Cinavia with little impact to audio quality. There are infinite possible ways of doing it.

ReVance! The 'V' is for Van Datta. Verance really need to get back to the drawing board NOW.

I have developed a method which can still recover the watermark after it is tempered. I have also developed much better mechanism to securely embed a watermark which will be tough to erase. These methods of mine will be highly sought after, once Cinavia is abandoned by the industry and that Verance, no, Revance, fades into history.

[alan1476]

You cannot and I will say it again, cannot remove a watermark from an audio stream, the only way you can do it is with a " bypass" , create a file that removes the trigger for the watermark. That's it, nothing else. LOL.