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  1. Member TB Player's Avatar
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    What are the advantages/disadvantages of setting VD so that it doesn't drop or insert frames?

    I have a VHS tape that's in rough condition and I'm seeing 40 dropped frames and 366 inserted frames in 5 minutes of capture, and I'm wondering if I should set VD to not drop/insert frames.

    What do you think?
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  2. Member TB Player's Avatar
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    Hmmm... I'm surprised that no one had comments about this.

    Maybe I wasn't clear. I know that there are a load of threads here about the causes of dropped frames, and I've read several of them. But I haven't yet read about the pluses/minuses of setting VDub so that it doesn't drop frames - I'm just trying to find out if that is a good/bad idea. The only outcome that I can see is that the audio and video could lose sync, which is fixable, and considering the condition of the video I'm working on, would be the lesser of two evils. But would there be any gain (no pun intended), video-wise, if VD was configured to not drop frames?
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 25th Mar 2014 at 12:25.
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  4. Member TB Player's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    Don't blame VirtualDub. You need a better player for damaged tape, and a line tbc.


    Did you even read my posts?

    I'm not blaming VD for anything. I'm not even complaining about the dropped frames.

    I'm wondering about the consequences of configuring VD to not drop any frames. Is it a good idea or a bad one, and why? Will I actually capture more of the frames that way, or will it not matter (due to the condition of the tape)?
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 25th Mar 2014 at 12:25.
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  6. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I think the OP means turning off the 'timing' correction.

    Since the added frames are designed to keep the audio in sync I would have thought that turning that off defeats the object unless there are very few added frames.

    Turning that off would probably create an offset but if it is not consistant then how could you 'fix' it ?
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  7. Member TB Player's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I think the OP means turning off the 'timing' correction.

    Since the added frames are designed to keep the audio in sync I would have thought that turning that off defeats the object unless there are very few added frames.

    Turning that off would probably create an offset but if it is not consistant then how could you 'fix' it ?
    Yes, that's what I'm referring to. Would that result in more frames captured, or would that just create empty or invalid frames?

    As far as re-syncing the audio, I assume that it would have to be done manually (which, for this tape I'm working with, wouldn't be too terribly bad, and might be worth it if I can get a better quality capture).
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    I do not think the process will capture more frames but rather just create blank frames where the added frame would have been.

    Try with that rather poor tape and just check it frame by frame. Then do the same with the 'timing' correction on. Neither will be good with that tape. Only you can see which is better.
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  9. Member TB Player's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I do not think the process will capture more frames but rather just create blank frames where the added frame would have been.
    Yeah, that's what I was wondering about. I wondered if, by disabling frame inserts, VD would be forced to capture a weak frame where it might have normally inserted a duplicate frame.


    Try with that rather poor tape and just check it frame by frame. Then do the same with the 'timing' correction on. Neither will be good with that tape. Only you can see which is better.
    I was hoping someone had the answer so I wouldn't have to do that.
    But in the end, you're right, that's the only way to determine what's best for my situation. Thanks.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 25th Mar 2014 at 12:25.
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  11. as was hinted earlier, the content on tape that is the problem. an better vcr might improve the capture since some vcrs have options for calibration and stabilizer on/off settings. my jvc HR-S3910U has these two important features. if i turn any of them on, they induce frame drops. i have some content on tapes that jump up/down, this causes the capture to loose sync somehow and drop frames. but there are other factors that you can drill down to the source of the frame drops.

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    Originally Posted by TB Player View Post
    What are the advantages/disadvantages of setting VD so that it doesn't drop or insert frames?

    I have a VHS tape that's in rough condition and I'm seeing 40 dropped frames and 366 inserted frames in 5 minutes of capture, and I'm wondering if I should set VD to not drop/insert frames.

    What do you think?
    Has any of your recording with VDub not had dropped frames?

    Isn't there a way to turn off audio preview during record?
    If so, try that and see how many dropped frames you have.
    I am trying to go from memory, it has been several years since I used it.
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  13. Member TB Player's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Steve(MS) View Post
    Originally Posted by TB Player View Post
    What are the advantages/disadvantages of setting VD so that it doesn't drop or insert frames?

    I have a VHS tape that's in rough condition and I'm seeing 40 dropped frames and 366 inserted frames in 5 minutes of capture, and I'm wondering if I should set VD to not drop/insert frames.

    What do you think?
    Has any of your recording with VDub not had dropped frames?
    Yes, I'm normally able to capture with no or very few dropped frames.


    Isn't there a way to turn off audio preview during record?
    If so, try that and see how many dropped frames you have.
    I am trying to go from memory, it has been several years since I used it.
    Interesting - I'll have to try that.
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  14. Member TB Player's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by vhelp View Post
    as was hinted earlier, the content on tape that is the problem. an better vcr might improve the capture since some vcrs have options for calibration and stabilizer on/off settings. my jvc HR-S3910U has these two important features. if i turn any of them on, they induce frame drops. i have some content on tapes that jump up/down, this causes the capture to loose sync somehow and drop frames. but there are other factors that you can drill down to the source of the frame drops.
    I'm experiencing the opposite. I'm using a JVC HR-S9911U which has a TBC/NR switch. With this tape I've been capturing with the TBC/NR switch off, which produces more dropped frames (and the tape jumping you mentioned) but seems to generate better picture detail. I thought I would make two new captures from the tape of identical video - one with the switch off, the other with the switch on - and see which one cleans up better with avisynth.
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  15. Member TB Player's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    You didn't describe your capture setup. What player? What capture device or adapter? Are you using any filters during capture?
    Playing the tape on a S-VHS JVC HR-S9911U, capturing composite with an old ATI Rage Fury Pro 128 with VD using Huffyuv - no filters when capturing.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 25th Mar 2014 at 12:26.
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  17. Member TB Player's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    I'd suggest there's something amiss with that 9911. Some years back I bought a 9911 brand-new that gave a similar image. I returned it next day, brought home a 2nd copy, and it did exactly the same thing (but added occasional red flashing across one side during play). I returned that as well and never went to JVC again. Over the years I owned three 1990's-era JVC's and used them with excellent results until they died just after parts support was discontinued.

    Later JVC's from about 1998 and later did not track damaged tapes very well, and none of them were the best choice for 6-hour tapes. Meanwhile, perhaps someone can take a look at the video heads -- unless that tape has been previously damaged with bad heads. All VCR's deveop alignment problems; worn belts and capstan assemblies seem to be the usual cause.
    My JVC deck usually does very well with tapes in good condition - I think (and hope) that the problems with this tape are because of its bad condition... it came to me somewhat damaged.


    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    I assume you're capturing with composite because the Ati '128' doesn't have s-video inputs? I owned one of those way-back-when; I seem to remember it took s-video, but that was a long time ago so I could be wrong about that. VHS will play better thru s-video if your capture device will accept the cable. S-VHS is a tape format, while s-video is a type of cable. You can play anything with s-video, including DVD's and outputs from cable boxes. s-video won't work with HD.
    My ATI card does indeed have an s-video port. I'm using the composite lines because, years ago, I did a comparison between s-video and composite and at the time it appeared to me that composite looked better than s-video.
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