Cablevision preventing Timed DVD Recording - What To Do?

[Novice20]

Thank you again usually_quiet, jagabo and orsetto for your advice and information and your generous time to assist me.

The "reminders" do only that: put a bar across the top "reminding" you to switch channels.

Aside from the "basic" OTA equivalent channels, I record mostly from USA, syfy; BBCA and TNT. If the CGMS-A flag was in the channels, wouldn't that have already shown up when the MAG tried to record them? And would that be an issue with tivo recording and copying to PC (with their software or with kmttg) as well as Cablevision DVR to MAG?

If I was to get the DVR - or tivo for that matter - and recorded only one program at a time, would that remove the issue of being sure of what the MAG would get on the Video Out -> Line In?

[usually_quiet]

Aside from the "basic" OTA equivalent channels, I record mostly from syfy; BBCA and TNT. If the CGMS-A flag was in the channels, wouldn't that have already shown up when the MAG tried to record them? And would that be an issue with tivo recording and copying to PC (with their software or with kmttg) as well as Cablevision DVR to MAG?

Programs marked CGMS-A "copy never" would not record with a DVR, a DVD recorder, or a TiVo. If the programs you were recording with your DVD recorder were CGMS-A "copy-once" protected you could record them, but not dub them to DVD. There would be a similar issue with the TiVo if recording "copy once" programming. You could record the programs, but you could not transfer them to your computer.

[Novice20]

So if I understand this correctly, as I have been recording USA, BBCA, TNT, along with OTA equivalents, on the MAG HDD and copying them to DVDs, that should not change, and therefore should not be an issue, with DVR-to-MAG or tivo-to-pc transfer/copying.

[jagabo]

So if I understand this correctly, as I have been recording USA, BBCA, TNT, along with OTA equivalents, on the MAG HDD and copying them to DVDs, that should not change, and therefore should not be an issue, with DVR-to-MAG or tivo-to-pc transfer/copying.

That's probably correct. But it could change at any time. The same way you lost the timer function.

[orsetto]

The "reminders" do only that: put a bar across the top "reminding" you to switch channels.

Bummer! Sorry to hear that, Novice20: what a nasty "software upgrade" Cablevision stuck you with. Not unusual, a lot of cable providers have done this, but it stinks. On the east coast I think TWC is the only one that hasn't (perhaps because they blew their software completely to hell a few years back and have spent a fortune just trying to stabilize it: if they remove one more feature the whole thing might collapse like a house of cards).

If I was to get the DVR - or tivo for that matter - and recorded only one program at a time, would that remove the issue of being sure of what the MAG would get on the Video Out -> Line In?

Yes, that usually works, but again you may need to make a setting change telling the box you'd prefer it to change the channel it is currently displaying to whatever shows come up in the timer. I think the default is to background record while displaying an alert on whatever channel you're presently viewing. Since this would be a significant change for you, I'd highly recommend finding someone (neighbor, friend, etc) in the neighborhood who already has the DVR and can let you see how it works. The more I search my brain for recollections of Cablevision, the more I remember what an incredibly poor interface it had: it would not surprise me to hear there is no option to have the DVR automatically change the channel it is showing to reflect what it is recording. It would be a good idea for you to verify this before committing to the DVR option. Worst case scenario would be as you initially feared: most recordings on the DVR would need to be manually re-copied to your DVD recorder.

If your research proves that to be true, then you should seriously consider going TiVO instead of the DVR. You have said you mainly use your Magnavox to make DVDs as conduit to a final PC-based MP4 archive: such a clunky workflow only makes sense if you are saving a huge amount of money bypassing DVRs or TiVO. But once the cable company pulls their latest stunts (like scrambling all channels and killing timer functions on non-DVR boxes), use of a DVD recorder becomes completely pointless unless your end goal is to maintain a library of DVDs. I happen to prefer DVDs: fragile as they are, I feel safer spreading the failure risk to thousands of individual DVDs instead of a couple of terabyte HDDs (I do see the allure of an HDD-based library and understand modern HDD is more reliable, but I'm middle-aged, so I'm paranoid after some disappointing tech experiences, and I'm used to thousands of VHS tapes cluttering my house so DVD seems like heaven by comparison).

The majority of consumers, like you, have moved on to HDD storage: if HDD is the end game, something like the Magnavox really just gets in the way and slows you down for no good reason. It is much more efficient to use a TiVO with its PC-dump feature: while the upfront cost with lifetime service fee is nearly triple the cost of the Magnavox, you do get some pretty cool capabilities for the money. You only need to set timers on one device, using an elegant program grid which is smart enough to follow your weekly shows no matter what day or time they get moved to during the season. You get multiple tuners with the ability to record shows on conflicting channels at the same time. You get full HDTV quality recordings, which can be transferred to your PC and easily saved. Bearing in mind that DVD/HDD recorders like your Magnavox were priced at $599 as recently as 2006 (when most were discontinued), the TiVO pricing is not out of line considering the advanced capabilities.

The only option more efficient than TiVO would be recording directly to an HTPC, but then you're faced with building the thing from scratch and dealing with all the usual PC issues. For those with decent tech savvy, the HTPC is a fantastically versatile alternative. But it isn't as foolproof as a standalone, pre-packaged, turnkey, refined TiVO. If and when I get sick of my DVD/HDD recorders (or they finally croak), I'll likely go TiVO myself (and spend years ripping my DVDs onto HDDs after all).

[Novice20]

The forum went down last night as I was entering a reply and it did not come back up the rest of the night.


Thank you jagabo for your post. And thank you orsetto for once again taking the time to write such a clear and detailed post.

Clearly I must do something but I keep swinging back-and-forth between tivo and cablevision DVR. Granted the dvr-to-MAG-to-DVD-to-pc/MP4 process is hardly streamlined, the latter choice would involve much less change (and much less expense) from what I'm doing. And the tivo-to-pc transfer/conversion is itself far from efficient, taking (according to tivo rep) at least one hour - and quite possibly more - to copy a one hour recording. The MAG-to-DVD-to-PC/MP4 process that I'm using (a high speed HDD-to-DVD copy and a fairly fast DVD-to-MP4 conversion) takes about twenty-five minutes all together for a one hour recording. (Does anyone know if kmttg is faster than tivo's software?) I've also seen comments that getting the cablevision cablecard to work can be a nightmare.

On the other hand, as you and others pointed out, cablevision's dvr setup is less than reliable. And may not even let me record to the MAG during the dvr recording. An aside but an example of Cablevision unreliability, when Cablevision swapped out my standard box last week for the Samsung, I stopped getting audio on the right channel in the MAG recordings. I also don't get any output through the coax (the MAg is connected via RCA jacks). Cablevision said it's because the Samsung is an HD box and the MAG isn't and are therefore incompatible - hence the audio problem (they said the coax problem means something else - bad box?) and I should swap it back for a standard box.
(Then they did a reset of the box and now there seems to be audio on the right channel - but still no coax output)
My point is to show that, as you said, you can't rely on what cablevision says nor on what it's equipment does.

Regarding DVDs vs disk drive MP4 files, I understand your concern and wanting to have individual DVDs. For a while I was doing that but saw that I would not have place to keep dozens and dozens of DVDs. And DVDs can go bad over time, too. I do keep my AVI and MP4 copied recordings mirror imaged on two disk drives, so that I have a backup to everything.

And I am hardly someone who could build HTPC.

I suppose I would more readily go with tivo if it didn't come with all of the up-front requisite commitments (purchasing recorder, minimum one-year service contract, and possibly purchasing their pc software). Probably the one thing that Cablevision has going for it is that I could essentially test it (no upfront cost, month-to-month service) without a significant outlay. (I don't know anyone who has either tivo or cablevision dvr where I could see it working).

[orsetto]

Novice20, I have discussed your concerns about the TiVO>PC file transfer feature and related software with a friend on another forum who is very tech-oriented and has used the TiVO>PC setup for a long time. I've forwarded his reply to you via VideoHelp PM: please check your VH inbox. This info should clear up any questions or misgivings you had.

Briefly, he reminded me there are several different models of TiVO and some are MUCH slower than others at the file transfer task. If you opt for the TiVO Premiere model, the transfers to PC run at approx 20 mins per hour of HD video with 5.1 audio you send to your PC (IOW, roughly 3x faster than realtime). The TiVO HD model is the one that runs transfers very slowly, approx 10% slower than realtime. He also suggested you check eBay and Craig's List for second-hand TiVOs bundled with lifetime subscriptions: the lifetime service is transferable and you might pay substantially less going second hand.

The TiVO Desktop software that you can buy for $16 is only necessary if you want to take full advantage of all the automated TiVO transfer options (such as having your PC and the TiVO "auto-sync" much like an iPhone/iPod does with iTunes). If you are content to manually transfer recordings to your PC, similar to how you currently move recordings from your Magnavox hard drive to a DVD, the free kmttg software is all you need.

[usually_quiet]

The forum went down last night as I was entering a reply and it did not come back up the rest of the night.


Thank you jagabo for your post. And thank you orsetto for once again taking the time to write such a clear and detailed post.

Clearly I must do something but I keep swinging back-and-forth between tivo and cablevision DVR. Granted the dvr-to-MAG-to-DVD-to-pc/MP4 process is hardly streamlined, the latter choice would involve much less change (and much less expense) from what I'm doing. And the tivo-to-pc transfer/conversion is itself far from efficient, taking (according to tivo rep) at least one hour - and quite possibly more - to copy a one hour recording. The MAG-to-DVD-to-PC/MP4 process that I'm using (a high speed HDD-to-DVD copy and a fairly fast DVD-to-MP4 conversion) takes about twenty-five minutes all together for a one hour recording. (Does anyone know if kmttg is faster than tivo's software?) I've also seen comments that getting the cablevision cablecard to work can be a nightmare.

On the other hand, as you and others pointed out, cablevision's dvr setup is less than reliable. And may not even let me record to the MAG during the dvr recording. An aside but an example of Cablevision unreliability, when Cablevision swapped out my standard box last week for the Samsung, I stopped getting audio on the right channel in the MAG recordings. I also don't get any output through the coax (the MAg is connected via RCA jacks). Cablevision said it's because the Samsung is an HD box and the MAG isn't and are therefore incompatible - hence the audio problem (they said the coax problem means something else - bad box?) and I should swap it back for a standard box.
(Then they did a reset of the box and now there seems to be audio on the right channel - but still no coax output)
My point is to show that, as you said, you can't rely on what cablevision says nor on what it's equipment does.

Regarding DVDs vs disk drive MP4 files, I understand your concern and wanting to have individual DVDs. For a while I was doing that but saw that I would not have place to keep dozens and dozens of DVDs. And DVDs can go bad over time, too. I do keep my AVI and MP4 copied recordings mirror imaged on two disk drives, so that I have a backup to everything.

And I am hardly someone who could build HTPC.

I suppose I would more readily go with tivo if it didn't come with all of the up-front requisite commitments (purchasing recorder, minimum one-year service contract, and possibly purchasing their pc software). Probably the one thing that Cablevision has going for it is that I could essentially test it (no upfront cost, month-to-month service) without a significant outlay. (I don't know anyone who has either tivo or cablevision dvr where I could see it working).

You can always buy a standard PC, and add a CableCARD tuner. Some CableCARD tuners, like Hauppauge's and SilconDust's are external, so you don't even need to open the case.

Regarding CableCARDs, getting a TiVo set up and working with a CableCARD doesn't always go smoothly either. If you can't deal with the possible bumps in the road associated with CableCARD installation, then get a Cablevision DVR.

[jagabo]

You can always buy a standard PC, and add a CableCARD tuner. Some CableCARD tuners, like Hauppauge's and SilconDust's are external, so you don't even need to open the case.

But most of your recordings will be encrypted and locked to the PC that created them. The only exceptions will be those received via clear QAM -- usually only your local broadcast channels. And those are likely going to disappear over the next few years as the FCC no longer requires it.

You don't need a cablecard device to record clear QAM. Any "capture" device with a clear QAM tuner can "download" the transport stream the cable company is sending.

[usually_quiet]

You can always buy a standard PC, and add a CableCARD tuner. Some CableCARD tuners, like Hauppauge's and SilconDust's are external, so you don't even need to open the case.

But most of your recordings will be encrypted and locked to the PC that created them. The only exceptions will be those received via clear QAM -- usually only your local broadcast channels.

At some point in the future, Cablevision could decide to make all cable-only channels "copy once", but presently the channels that the OP wants to record are still marked "copy freely". ...and if it does happen, then the OP won't be able to transfer most recordings from a TiVo to a PC anymore either.

And those are likely going to disappear over the next few years as the FCC no longer requires it.

The FCC has given approval to encrypt local broadcast channels, so clear QAM may disappear, but the FCC still requires local broadcast channels to be available and to be CGMSA "copy freely" which means they won't be locked to the box that created them when using a CableCARD tuner.

You don't need a cablecard device to record clear QAM. Any "capture" device with a clear QAM tuner can "download" the transport stream the cable company is sending

Clear QAM is a pain in the butt to use for recording because every so often cable providers change their channel assignments on a whim. People with CableCARD tuners don't have that problem.

[Edit] The above isn't really clear, so let me clarify. If using a clear QAM tuner, every time your provider changes the channels it uses for clear QAM locals, you first have to scan for channels, and then manually map the channels found in the scan to your PVR software's program guide. That isn't necessary if you have a CableCARD tuner, because channel mapping is done automatically, unless something is wrong with the CableCARD or Tuning Adapter (if there is one).

[jagabo]

The FCC has given approval to encrypt local broadcast channels, so clear QAM may disappear, but the FCC still requires local broadcast channels to be available and to be CGMSA "copy freely" which means they won't be locked to the box that created them when using a CableCARD tuner.

CGMS-A? That would only be on the analog output (hence the "A"). Are you sure the recorded digital content will be free of encryption?

I'm using a cablecard tuner (HDHomerun Prime) and Win7 Media Center now. Recordings of all the channels the OP mentioned (USA, syfy; BBCA and TNT) are encrypted. Only the local OTA channels are unencrypted.

[usually_quiet]

The FCC has given approval to encrypt local broadcast channels, so clear QAM may disappear, but the FCC still requires local broadcast channels to be available and to be CGMSA "copy freely" which means they won't be locked to the box that created them when using a CableCARD tuner.

CGMS-A? That would only be on the analog output (hence the "A"). Are you sure the recorded digital content will be free of encryption?

I'm using a cablecard tuner (HDHomerun Prime) and Win7 Media Center now. Recordings of all the channels the OP mentioned (USA, syfy; BBCA and TNT) are encrypted. Only the local OTA channels are unencrypted.

Yes I made a mistake, the copy protection flag is digital, (CGMS-D?). However, the digital version of the flag is supposed to be converted to its CGMS-A equivalent when using the analog video outputs on a cable box, so if the OP can record those channels with a DVD recorder and dub to DVD, then they must be marked "copy freely".

I am certain that recordings made by Windows Media Center will only be encrypted if the digital or analog signal to be recorded is marked "copy once" in some way. Your provider is the problem. Some providers mark everything but locals and other channels in their basic cable plan with a flag that restricts recording, while others only restrict recording of premium channels. See http://www.missingremote.com/guide/cablecard-tuner-essentials

[jagabo]

Thanks for the update.

Regarding CableCARDs, getting a TiVo set up and working with a CableCARD doesn't always go smoothly either.

That bears repeating. Few people use their own cablecard devices so most of the tech support staff (in the call center and in the field) knows nothing about them. It may take a while to get everything working. Especially if a tuning adapter is required.

[yoda313]

Regarding the copy protection flags - those don't apply to analog recordings using component cables and the first gen hauppauge hdpvrs do they? I haven't done any realtime dubbing with my first gen hdpvr and my comcast dvr in awhile but I never had a flag issue using component.

Now again that is a realtime issue and it records anything onscreen including popus and the like.

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents.

And although the poster might not like to here this there might be a simpler solution to all this:

option a - pay $10 a month or so for hulu or netflix and get most of the tv shows you'd want right away and stream them whenever you want

option b - wait for the season to be over and buy the shows on dvd. Even if you have lots of shows you want to watch it would still take awhile to add up to the 600.00 price tag of the lifetime tivo subscription.

option c - free hulu on the desktop - you have to pay to do it on a settop box (the plus part of hulu - and many of the new shows are behind the pay subscription option so only the older shows would be available for free on the desktop)

Good luck.

I know these aren't all the options you want to here but I thought I'd mention some possibilities.

Oh and I do know some oddball fringe programming will never make it on dvd so there is that sacrifice there, not to mention some live special events and sports.

But its an imperfect world in the new digital age where the ease of ye olde analog cable are long gone.

[jagabo]

Regarding the copy protection flags - those don't apply to analog recordings using component cables and the first gen hauppauge hdpvrs do they?

Component video can contain the CGMS-A flag. But the Hauppauge HD PVR ignores it.

[yoda313]

Regarding the copy protection flags - those don't apply to analog recordings using component cables and the first gen hauppauge hdpvrs do they?

Component video can contain the CGMS-A flag. But the Hauppauge HD PVR ignores it.

Ok. Thanks.

Thats just like how it ignores the macrovision on vhs tapes right?

[jagabo]

Regarding the copy protection flags - those don't apply to analog recordings using component cables and the first gen hauppauge hdpvrs do they?

Component video can contain the CGMS-A flag. But the Hauppauge HD PVR ignores it.

Ok. Thanks.

Thats just like how it ignores the macrovision on vhs tapes right?

Yes.

[Chopmeister]

I thought I would offer my thoughts, in case they are useful.

I'm in a similar position - recording off a pay TV box to a DVD recorder, but luckily so far they haven't disabled timers. However, while the system works well for me, it has the major disadvantage that it isn't HD. If I pay a bit extra to move to their PVR I will get HD, but the quid pro quo is that CGMS/A gets put on the analog outputs. I think their argument is that since the PVR can record, users have no legitimate need to record externally.

Anyhow, I'm still planning to move, probably at the end of the year when I have time to rejig things. The solution I am going to use involves my laptop (which doesn't get much use), a Hauppauge 1212 PVR (already acquired), an HD Fury2 (already acquired) and a 4x2 matrix splitter (already acquired).

I will just record onto the PVR then, if disk space is low or I want to keep the recording indefinitely, I will use the HDFury and Hauppauge unit to transfer it to my laptop. Then to the existing NAS and networked media players for long-term storage and playback. While this has to be done in real time, it does have the advantage of no ongoing costs and keeping HD recordings in HD. Plus, as I also have a media player and an OTA antenna hooked up to the TV, I can always watch something else while it transfers if I like. The matrix splitter means that I don't have to keep swapping cables. Plus, if play something from our equivalent of netflix through the media player, I can also route that to the capture device if I choose.

If you have a laptop already, the PVR and HDFury aren't terribly expensive. Neither is a matrix splitter which, while not strictly nexessary, does make the whole setup more elegant.

[usually_quiet]

I thought I would offer my thoughts, in case they are useful.

I'm in a similar position - recording off a pay TV box to a DVD recorder, but luckily so far they haven't disabled timers. However, while the system works well for me, it has the major disadvantage that it isn't HD. If I pay a bit extra to move to their PVR I will get HD, but the quid pro quo is that CGMS/A gets put on the analog outputs. I think their argument is that since the PVR can record, users have no legitimate need to record externally.

Anyhow, I'm still planning to move, probably at the end of the year when I have time to rejig things. The solution I am going to use involves my laptop (which doesn't get much use), a Hauppauge 1212 PVR (already acquired), an HD Fury2 (already acquired) and a 4x2 matrix splitter (already acquired).

I will just record onto the PVR then, if disk space is low or I want to keep the recording indefinitely, I will use the HDFury and Hauppauge unit to transfer it to my laptop. Then to the existing NAS and networked media players for long-term storage and playback. While this has to be done in real time, it does have the advantage of no ongoing costs and keeping HD recordings in HD. Plus, as I also have a media player and an OTA antenna hooked up to the TV, I can always watch something else while it transfers if I like. The matrix splitter means that I don't have to keep swapping cables. Plus, if play something from our equivalent of netflix through the media player, I can also route that to the capture device if I choose.

If you have a laptop already, the PVR and HDFury aren't terribly expensive. Neither is a matrix splitter which, while not strictly nexessary, does make the whole setup more elegant.

If you read the two posts above yours, the HD-PVR 1212 ignores CGMS-A and Macrovision. An HD-Fury 2 is unnecessary unless you have to use HDMI for some reason. (i.e. component video output is terrible quality, or is disabled, or component video connections are not present on the set top box you are going to use.)

[Chopmeister]

The HDFury is necessary here. Boxes that do HD have HDMI outputs for the HD and component outputs are restricted to an SD signal. So, if you want HD, no real option other than something that does what the Fury does.

[jagabo]

Boxes that do HD have HDMI outputs for the HD and component outputs are restricted to an SD signal.

That's not always true. The last cable box we had could output HD component. I used to use the Hauppauge HD PVR 1212 to capture it.

[Novice20]

Well, I decided to experiment with the easiest and simplest thing which is cablevision DVR, as there is no contract. no equipment to buy, no up-front expense and it can be added and dropped easily with just a phone call.

I spoke to a couple of their technical reps today. Despite their trying to be helpful, the information they gave me was mostly wrong. I asked if the cable box will display the program being recorded. That would allow me to just set the MAG DVD Recorder to coincide with the DVR recording. I was told that if the cable box was on, it would show the program that was being recorded as it was recorded. That would allow the MAG to record it in real time.

As I found out tonight - and confirmed by another rep who took the time to research it and even check with other support people - that is not true. The box will show whichever channel was last on. The Rep said that her manual clearly says that you cannot record to a DVD recorder as the DVR is recording it.

Given that, I asked whether I could schedule the DVR to play back whatever had been recorded. I could just set the MAG to do multiple recordings from the cablebox/DVR, even though it was not in real time.

Well, Cablevision doesn't allow that playback. You have to manually select Program A for playback. When that's done you must manually select Program B, etc, So not only can't you record in real time what the DVR is recording, you can't even set it up to play back overnight after the DVR recordings are finished and record to the MAG in a batch.

In summary, Cablevision DVR is a very awkward and poorly designed feature. You can't record in real-time to MAG and can't stack playbacks for recording to the MAG. The only benefit it has, over not having it at all, is when there are shows on two channels that I want to record and can't be here to change the channel manually on the cablebox after the first one has been recorded. At least I get the DVR recording that I can copy and not miss the program completely.

This experiment shows the poor features of Cablevision's DVR. While it does help me for the two-channel and not being home problem I have later this week, it is making tivo, despite its more expensive cost, look to be the better choice. (Though there is the question as to whether kmttg will do batch copying of tivo recordings or if it also must be manually one at a time copying the way Cablevision is.)

[usually_quiet]

Well, I decided to experiment with the easiest and simplest thing which is cablevision DVR, as there is no contract. no equipment to buy, no up-front expense and it can be added and dropped easily with just a phone call.

I spoke to a couple of their technical reps today. Despite their trying to be helpful, the information they gave me was mostly wrong. I asked if the cable box will display the program being recorded. That would allow me to just set the MAG DVD Recorder to coincide with the DVR recording. I was told that if the cable box was on, it would show the program that was being recorded as it was recorded. That would allow the MAG to record it in real time.

As I found out tonight - and confirmed by another rep who took the time to research it and even check with other support people - that is not true. The box will show whichever channel was last on. The Rep said that her manual clearly says that you cannot record to a DVD recorder as the DVR is recording it.

Given that, I asked whether I could schedule the DVR to play back whatever had been recorded. I could just set the MAG to do multiple recordings from the cablebox/DVR, even though it was not in real time.

Well, Cablevision doesn't allow that playback. You have to manually select Program A for playback. When that's done you must manually select Program B, etc, So not only can't you record in real time what the DVR is recording, you can't even set it up to play back overnight after the DVR recordings are finished and record to the MAG in a batch.

In summary, Cablevision DVR is a very awkward and poorly designed feature. You can't record in real-time to MAG and can't stack playbacks for recording to the MAG. The only benefit it has, over not having it at all, is when there are shows on two channels that I want to record and can't be here to change the channel manually on the cablebox after the first one has been recorded. At least I get the DVR recording that I can copy and not miss the program completely.

This experiment shows the poor features of Cablevision's DVR. While it does help me for the two-channel and not being home problem I have later this week, it is making tivo, despite its more expensive cost, look to be the better choice. (Though there is the question as to whether kmttg will do batch copying of tivo recordings or if it also must be manually one at a time copying the way Cablevision is.)

Can you set the cable DVR to record the same channel with both tuners? Ideally one recording interval would be very short, so that it would not consume much hard drive space, If you can do that, it should force both tuners to be tuned to the same channel and you should be able to record the program you want to record with the DVD recorder at the same time it airs.

[orsetto]

In summary, Cablevision DVR is a very awkward and poorly designed feature. You can't record in real-time to MAG and can't stack playbacks for recording to the MAG.

To be fair, it is only "poorly designed" if your goal is to sync it with a DVD recorder to make DVDs of your timer recordings. None of the cable or satellite PVRs are designed for that: their sole intent is to offer integrated one-touch timer recording of multiple channels in high-definition quality, for the temporary "watch once then erase" type of viewing 90% of the public wants. Capturing permanently for personal libraries pretty much died out with the VCR: the mass market (in North America) *hated* DVD recorders, so as soon as cable/sat PVRs and TiVo appeared they became the new video recording paradigm.

Archiving to discs or HDD files is now a niche market served by slowly dying old DVD/HDD recorders and new HTPCs, some of which are connected to a TiVo. Thats just the way things are today: if you have cable, and the company is a recorder-hostile PITA like Cablevision, your options are limited and/or expensive. You can rent multiple decoder boxes and connect each to a different input on your recorder, in effect giving you multiple channel sources for the timer. You can rent the PVR, and then tediously copy your recordings manually to DVD. Or you can get a TiVo and connect it to your PC for quicker offloading of videos. The $16 TiVo networking app should allow batch transfers, if kmttg does not do what you need.

[sanlyn]

Got one of those marketing phone calls from Cablevision today. Really happy, sickeningly perky girlie voice telling the world that Long Island Cablevision customers will soon lose their ability to schedule channel settings. So I'll be leaving one or both of of my cable boxes on 24/7 to record and will have to change channels manually. No way I'm using their piss-poor customer-unfriendly DVR. Won't do any good to go to FIOS -- they'll be doing the same thing eventually.

Land of the free, right? Other countries, take note. One customer in my co-op building told me today it's the last straw for him. He watches TV maybe once a week, gets all his other info on the internet. He figures he'll save $85/mo cutting his TV service, and won't live with the FIOS nonsense.

[hrsweet3]

The Cablevision 'improvement' has hit my area ( Mid Hudson Valley). Their tech support and management are clueless. I have some temporary workarounds planned and will also vent to Congress and the FCC.

I'll be following along here for a more 'permanent' solution.

Do you all remember when the DVR was going to be the replacement for the VCR? That has happened in the rest of the world but not in this 'free' country!

[orsetto]

Do you all remember when the DVR was going to be the replacement for the VCR? That has happened in the rest of the world but not in this 'free' country!

Depends on what you mean by "DVR". If you mean "DVD/HDD" recorder, then yes, these were much more successful outside North America. But that popularity was for one singular reason: there is no deranged cable service dominating TV reception anywhere outside North America. Other countries agreed on a single DTV broadcast standard, a unified EPG system to enable "TiVo-esque" timer operation, and free/subscription satellite standards that allowed mfrs to build in multiple tuners at reasonable cost. These factors made DVD/HDD recorders a convenient, desirable consumer product in those countries. Here in North America, the dominance of conflicting, proprietary cable/satellite services hobbled DVD/HDD recorders at every turn, making them inconvenient to use at best and painful at worst. Once the success of TiVo inspired cable and satellite to provide their own integrated decoder box/PVRs, generic recorders were doomed.

The same decline in generic recorders has played out in Europe and Asia, but at a much slower rate. BluRay/HDD recorders were introduced to great fanfare as the natural HDTV successor to DVD/HDD units, but prices were too high and they failed to gain the same traction. Recorder brands that had been wildly successful, like Sony and Panasonic, began stupidly cutting corners and making their new Euro models regressively less functional. Cheap high-definition HDD recorders with EPG but no disc burning capability began proliferating two years ago, and now Europe is on par with North America as far as consumer apathy toward removeable-media recording. Even the archive-addicted Japanese have lost interest.

All anyone wants worldwide nowadays is a cheap, idiot-proof TiVo knockoff for temporary timeshift viewing- so that's what they see on their store shelves. We don't have them in North America for the same reason DVD/HDD recorders bombed: our cable and satellite services are closed and only work well with their own subscription PVRs (or in some cases, TiVo). Roll-your-own PC-based recorders are fast becoming the only viable alternative.

[hrsweet3]

Yes, I did mean DVD/HDD recorder. Thanks for the elaboration. It is just appalling that advances in consumer technology have been squelched so that cable companies can increase their profits. When broadband was first introduced, Cablevision tried to make users rent one modem for each computer. Routers killed that. Then they made changes requiring each TV or device to have its own cable box. Now, by taking away the scheduling function, they are making our equipment far less useful so that we can rent theirs and throw away ours. Their monopolistic power is beginning to show as Cablevision continues to squeeze more money out of us.

On top of this, the video and audio quality is degrading.

BTW, one of my set top boxes is still working with the programs I had previously loaded. I wonder if there is some sequence that could get to the controls.

[Novice20]

Besides the incredibly confusing, kludgie DVR recording and "series" selection setups, Cablevision quality is, as some have noted here, poor. I can see skin tones go pale and back to normal again and again in just one hour-long recording. If I was adept at technical things, which I'm not, I would certainly look into the PC connection that many have made here.

[hrsweet3]

The fact that we're here indicates a willingness to learn. I set up a Hauppage some time ago and found it more awkward to use than the DVRs but expect to start using it again. Devoting a single DVR /cablebox to each channel is unbearable!