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  1. Member Budman1's Avatar
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    I admit, the more I read, the more confused I'm getting. I am trying to convert my VHS to DVD and either I have the worst DVD player or more likely, its me. After using Roxio convert to capture the VHS in MPEG2 format with 720x480 4:3 format, it plays fine on a computer (with media info stating its 720x480 4:3 but displays in viewer as 640x480 which is confusing) so I used FFMpeg to clean and tweak it to the same dimensions and aspect, then used AVS4YOU to convert to DVD with menus.

    When I played the burned DVD on my Blu_ray player (DVD dead ATM), no matter whether I choose standard, fill or overscan, the image always fills the whole screen. After reading that I needed to change the IFO files for Pan & Scan and auto letterboxing, I used IFOEdit to fix and reconverted. Same issue. Even tried without using ffmpeg but the same issue occurs.

    This is probably very basic for the experts here but, as I mentioned earlier, the more I read about
    "... resizing to 768x576 for correct viewing at 4:3 or 1024x576 for 16:9..."
    and
    "...720x480 resized to 16:9 and then letterboxed to 2.35:1 to maintain the same
    aspect ratio ..."
    I admit, I'm lost as to why 2.35:1, 1024x 576, etc. Any help would be appreciated as to how I can get the letterboxes to display, which I assume I need for a 4:3 movie on a 16:9 screen. A good site that explains this as well as how or why I might want to convert this to 16:9 and maintain aspect of ???? would be a help also.

    If this sounds confusing, I admit, I am. Help Please.
    Last edited by Budman1; 8th May 2013 at 17:08. Reason: additional inf
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 28th Mar 2014 at 17:48.
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  3. Originally Posted by Budman1 View Post
    When I played the burned DVD on my Blu_ray player (DVD dead ATM), no matter whether I choose standard, fill or overscan, the image always fills the whole screen. After reading that I needed to change the IFO files for Pan & Scan and auto letterboxing, I used IFOEdit to fix and reconverted.
    So you encoded a 4:3 source as 16:9? And you expected a different result? Go back into IFOEdit (or, better, PGCEdit) and change it back to 4:3.

    Also make sure your DVD player is set up to output to a 16:9 or Widescreen TV set. And make sure the TV set's aspect ratio is set correctly.

    If none of that helps, please enclose a very small sample of the finished DVD. 10 seconds is plenty.
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  4. Member Budman1's Avatar
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    The conversion was all 720x480 4:3 as is DVD standard. The problem is playing on my 16x9 TV it fills the screen without any black pillar bars (but plays correctly on a PC) and some distortion occurs, no matter what setting I choose. As far as I can find out, this TV only has an aspect settings of Standard, Fill and OverScan. Since the Standard and Fill are pretty much the same, with only a slight difference, it appears that the TV always zooms to eliminate Pillar bars and I can find no settings that will change that.

    The proportions, now that I look closer, do not appear to be too disproportionate but I may have lost some of the borders from the original video. Could this be the fact that I am forced to play with a Blu-Ray player ATM which I can find no setting to change either.

    Manono, your suggestions were something I will delve deeper into, possibly with new, better equipment. Sanlyn, your answer contained a LOT of information and references in such a short response. I envy your concise method of writing and it cleared up much for me.

    Thanks everyone.
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  5. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Your blu-ray player is most likely displaying it as 16:9,check to see if there's a setting for 4:3.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 28th Mar 2014 at 17:48.
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  7. Originally Posted by Budman1 View Post
    The conversion was all 720x480 4:3 as is DVD standard.
    If you can actually change the IFO files for Pan & Scan and auto letterboxing then you made a 16:9 DVD. Those options are only available for 16:9 videos, not for 4:3 videos. Those options tell the player how to display the 16:9 video video when played on 4:3 TV sets (cropped or letterboxed). If encoded for 4:3, it'll fill the screen on 4:3 TV sets and the player automatically sets black pillarbars on the sides if shown on a 16:9 TV set. If you have both the player and TV set up properly, and the DVD encoded with the right DAR.
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  8. Member Budman1's Avatar
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    Okay, after more research, I'm posting a short video in VOB format ripped from the first one of the DVD. I am also posting an image of Media Player and Virtualdub simultaneously. Virtualdub shows what my TV shows and Media player shows correct??
    Click image for larger version

Name:	ScreenHunter_04 May. 08 21.18.jpg
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Size:	167.1 KB
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    This is the short video, it is 12mb but resides on GoDaddy so shouldn't take long to download and is only 30 seconds. I ripped directly from the vob so no recoding occurred:
    https://files.secureserver.net/0stb89KSZiHhdc

    This is Media Info if needed:
    General
    Complete name : C:\Users\Bud\Desktop\McLain\McLain Folder\Disc1\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.VOB
    Format : MPEG-PS
    File size : 1 024 MiB
    Duration : 14mn 36s
    Overall bit rate : 9 796 Kbps
    Video
    ID : 224 (0xE0)
    Format : MPEG Video
    Format version : Version 2
    Format profile : Main@Main
    Format settings, BVOP : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix : Default
    Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
    Duration : 14mn 36s
    Bit rate : 9 400 Kbps
    Width : 720 pixels
    Height : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 4:3
    Frame rate : 29.970 fps
    Standard : NTSC
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.908
    Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
    Time code source : Group of pictures header
    Stream size : 980 MiB (96%)

    I changed the Pan & Scan and letter boxing DUE to this problem. My TV shows incorrectly with and without these options. Also VirtualDub and Media Players show differently as well. This is what has originally puzzled me.
    Last edited by Budman1; 8th May 2013 at 21:38. Reason: Response to unupdated response
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  9. Member Wolfen's Avatar
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    Don't try too hard to understand unless you really want to get into the tech aspects of aspect ratios.

    720x480 = standard NTSC dvd
    720x576 = standard PAL dvd

    in order for the player to display the dvd right there are flags that tell the player which aspect ratio to display it (the movie)at. For PAL if it's 4:3 it'll display the video at 768x576 and in mediainfo it'll still say 720x576, if it's 16:9 it'll display the video at 1024x576 and still in mediainfo say 720x576.

    For NTSC if it's 4:3 it'll display the video at 640x480 and in mediainfo still say it's 720x480, if it's 16:9 it'll display the video at 720x405 but in mediainfo still say that it's 720x480. It all has to do with Original aspect ratio and Display aspect ratio.

    Anamorphic 16:9 dvd will display the video at 853x480 and still say it's 720x480 in mediainfo. again original aspect ratio and Display aspect ratio. if that helps ? that's what I understand I hope I'm close at least ?
    Last edited by Wolfen; 8th May 2013 at 22:22.
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  10. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Did you try seeing if your blu-ray player is set up properly to play 4:3 720x480 video?Nothing is going to help you if your blu-ray and or tv is not set up right to play 4:3 video,I just played the short clip you uploaded on my blu-ray player and it plays with the proper ratio(black pillars on the sides).
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 28th Mar 2014 at 17:48.
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  12. It's one thing for a VOB to be 4:3, which this is, but most (but not all) players get the DAR from the IFOs and not the VOBs. Below is a picture of what it would look like if it were really 16:9, wider than your picture on the left above. Maybe there's some odd picture extension that was added to it. Or maybe it's being played as 1:1 (720x480).

    Again, make sure both your DVD player and your TV are set up correctly. I have no idea what AVS4YOU is, but there's at least one other glaring error in that DVD. You managed to encode it as progressive 29.97fps. That's something that should never be done with film sources. In every five-frame cycle there's a duplicate frame..
    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	16-92.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	64.5 KB
ID:	17729  

    Last edited by manono; 9th May 2013 at 03:08.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 28th Mar 2014 at 17:48.
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  14. Member Budman1's Avatar
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    Bingo! Thanks to everyone for the assist, especially the information you gave that I was lacking on aspects and their usage. After attacking the remotes and the menus, like everyone told me to, I finally found a setting in the Blu-Ray Player that sets my TV video. It was in Wide 16:9 format and if I set it to 16:9 squeeze it shows correctly.

    There was a wealth of information, I think I actually understand, from all who responded. You seem to know this stuff by heart while my head just got fuzzier from trying to absorb all the web site info. Looks like everything is okay and I won't have to "... Throw it at Something..." now, but I was ready to. Not Really LOL.

    My only defense in taking so long to find the menu is that my Wife's TV is one our son found. A large flat panel that was a bargain?? and has very few menu items. And our Blu-Ray player is one I was sent to find at 9:00PM when our DVD player broke and the only place open was Wally Market.

    Thanks again for the help and great information as always.
    Thanks!
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  15. Member Budman1's Avatar
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    One more quick question if I may... When is it necessary to deinterlace? I had previewed it and noticed the interlacing that looked odd during frame by frame examination. I know this is normal but this is not noticed on a TV right? When is it necessary to use a deinterlacing filter?
    Thanks
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 28th Mar 2014 at 17:49.
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  17. Member Budman1's Avatar
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    Great, got that logged away too, really appreciate the information. Since these DVD's are for my sisters collection of old VHS, guess I better go buy some more dual layer DVDs. The good news is, this is my new, Alienware computer and converting/burning is much faster now, even faster than my XPS 9100 so I'll have time to transcribe all this information for later while it does its thing, just in case, (too many lunches, naps, projects, etc. and I might forget).

    Thanks a ton to everyone that responded.
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  18. Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    The vid Manono mentioned should not have been deinterlaced. It should have been inverse-telecined if you wanted progressive playback. But with standard DVD there's really no reason for it: your player or TV will deinterlace anyway.
    That's right, the player will most likely deinterlace it. And that's very bad for playback quality. You'll get that same stuttering playback that the DVD has already with the vast majority of DVD players out there. As you suggested before retracting it, it should be IVTC'd. That's also much better for encoder efficiency and output quality for the same size DVD (a DVD5, most likely). With film sources (as this is), it's always preferable to encode for progressive 23.976fps with 3:2 pulldown applied rather than encode as hard telecined interlaced 29.97fps.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 28th Mar 2014 at 17:49.
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  20. Oh, in that case I misunderstood what you were saying. In any event, I'd still never encode hard telecine myself. And if doing more than one or two tapes, and if he cares about quality, I would think it would be in the best interests of the person doing the capturing to learn how to do the whole process better than it was done here.
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